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Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

DoctorA
Luminary

Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

@Chuck_M, and others are reporting that RBR 50 is working fine wired in AP mode. I don't have RBK 53 components. I am considering  buying the second RBK 850 systems. The reason I paid extra (my wife doesn't know yet) for RBK 830 system is so that my kids don't complaint that we don't have Wifi 6 in few months after getting the latest laptops and smartphones. Also it looks like the RBK 830 is stronger and covers more square footage. Plus my 40 devices inside the home are connected in very stable way even though some of them receive weak signal bellow two floors.

Since I have a 7000sq ft area to take care of and have distant wifi devices in the back yard, I need at least 1 more satellite and probably two. 

I called support to buy a second satellite and they said it is not available and even if I add another one it is not supported yet. I am just going to try it. What can go wrong?

ATT GigaPower Fiber-->ONT-->BGW-210 RGW in IP Passthrough mode-->RBR850
Wired Topology RBS50---RBR 850-->RBS850--> RBS50 Ethernet backhaul
Firmware Version V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 for RBS 50 V3.2.16.6_1.4.4Router mode
Message 1 of 24
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Let us know how it does with a 2nd RBS. Hopefully it will connect and work. No sure if a 2nd will sync or the FW will even allow it. I presume it might. No idea. $1400 for two systems. Wow. 

 

Remember, 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

Let us know how it turns out. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 2 of 24
DoctorA
Luminary

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

 Do not forget that in addition to 3 level 7000 sq ft home I also have a 2500 sq ft area in the back yard that need Wifi. You are correct, it is a lot of money. If one RBS 850 was available I would just try only one if it can cover both backyard and first floor placed near window. 

I need more signal on the 1st floor and coverage for the backyard and pool 70 feet away.

Anyway, I am planining to connect the second system with Ethernet wire like my excisting backhaul. I have two options.

I have one Ethernet jack on the left side of the middle level connected to the RBR 850 upstairs on the 3rd floor. 

I have another Ethernet jack on the right side of the 1st floor now connected to RBS 850 upstairs.

 

I can put one new satellite near 2nd floor balcony or balcony ceiling for outdoor coverage and one on the first floor inside both connected to my exsisting RBS upstairs on the right. Is this called daisy chaining? is this allowed? 

Another option is to connect one new satellite to the exsisting router upstairs and install on the 2nd floor Ethernet jack near left window for the backyard/indoor coverage.

Plus connect another new router in AP mode to the exsisting RBS 850 upstairs and install it next to the 1st floor right Ethernet jack. 

Thank you

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Let us know how it does with a 2nd RBS. Hopefully it will connect and work. No sure if a 2nd will sync or the FW will even allow it. I presume it might. No idea. $1400 for two systems. Wow. 

 

Remember, 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

Let us know how it turns out. 


 

ATT GigaPower Fiber-->ONT-->BGW-210 RGW in IP Passthrough mode-->RBR850
Wired Topology RBS50---RBR 850-->RBS850--> RBS50 Ethernet backhaul
Firmware Version V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 for RBS 50 V3.2.16.6_1.4.4Router mode
Message 3 of 24
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Another suggestion would the RBSY model outdoor satellite. Hopefully NG will get this supported in the near future.  

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 4 of 24
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Doc;

 

I had the same challenge as you do.  Originally I had RBR50 and two wired Sattelites that went far across my property to an outbuilding and pool area that surely exceeded the coverage of the AX system.

 

When I got the RBK853 with one sattelite, I thought to solve the distance problem, I would use the RBR50 in Access Point mode and string the RBS50 sattelites off of the original RBR50 still giving me the AC3000 reach coverage on that side of the property.

 

I found that the RBR50 didnt play well with the RBR 853 even though it was in AP mode.  It was quirky and was not quite right as if the RBR50 was interfering with smooth RBR853 operations.   My next solution was to try and replace the RBR50 (which was hardwired)  with an RBS50 -- since I had two hard wired extensions, I did this on both runs.

 

The result was pretty interesting.  The RBS50's show up in my Orbi app as wired sattelites just like they did in the past -- both directly reporting to the RBR853.  The RBS853 sattelite is at the opposite end of the property and also shows up properly in the app using a wireless connection back to the RBR853.  The benefit of this was NOT having dual wireless networks that could potentially compete with each other since the RBR50 in AP mode would have had its own.  By just using RBS50s (wired), they share the same no-kidding SSID, PW and network as an integrated package although admitedly they are not prepared for IP6 functionality.  A good tradeoff if you ask me until compatible sattelites are ready for market.

 

I will probably hard wire the RBS853 when I have an opportunity just for the the sake of doing it.

 

The QOS speedtest embedded in the RB5853 reports a speed that seems slower than what was reported by the RBR50 when it was installed as the primary router, but not by much.  I chalk that up to probably the innacuracies of the test.  Both speeds are well above what I pay for, so I have nothing to complain about.

 

Other than the device naming issue, I am still having trouble accessing the RBR853 when I am on the road (not in the LAN).  It reports the RBR850 as "disconnected" even though remote management is enabled.  When I am within the LAN, my app shows and operates the Orbi just fine.  Any hints or tips on that would be appreciated.  I thought it was because the Remote Management option reset itself on each router reboot, but I checked and it remains enabled but the functionality is not there.

 

Has anyone else noticed the "Daisy Chain" option is gone from the advanced menu?

 

I also noticed that when using the Reserved IP address functions... it is actually a two step process.  You "add" assigned devices to reserve IP addresses... but it really doesnt commit those changes until you then click the APPLY button.  If you fail to do that and reboot, the changes go away.  When you click that APPLY button, the router reboots which -- even though reboot time is faster -- is still a pain to wait for.

 

If anyone has cracked the code on the out of LAN remote management, please message me.

 

The other thing that is impressive is the greater distance of coverage for IOT devices wirelessly.  The distance between by Nest Hello Doorbell and sattelite has more than doubled... but the connection signal is far better.

 

I also found that by retaining the old SSID and Wireless PW, most (MOST) devices easily transfer over to the new AX6000 system without having to rehome their wireless affiliation.   Certain devices, mostly Amazon Alexas, have to be rehomed manually since I believe they look for MAC addresses on the wireless radios they are trying to associate with.  Of the 80 to 90 devices I have, all but about 10 jumped over to the new system without any reprogramming.

 

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 5 of 24
DoctorA
Luminary

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Thank you for reporting your findings. It is nice to know that the  RBS50's are working fine with RBR 850. 

You also mentioned that RBR 50 in AP mode didnt work well with the RBR 853 even though it was in AP mode possibly because it will have it's own network which will interfere with the main network.

If indeed this dual wireless networks will be a problem then I will refrain from buying another RBK850 pair just for the one satellite and waist a RBR850.

I wish NG can make flexible  RBRs that can be setup in AP or satellite mode. Many mesh systems allow this right?

Patiently waiting for single RBS 850 to be available.


@Chuck_M wrote:

Doc;

 

I had the same challenge as you do.  Originally I had RBR50 and two wired Sattelites that went far across my property to an outbuilding and pool area that surely exceeded the coverage of the AX system.

 

When I got the RBK853 with one sattelite, I thought to solve the distance problem, I would use the RBR50 in Access Point mode and string the RBS50 sattelites off of the original RBR50 still giving me the AC3000 reach coverage on that side of the property.

 

I found that the RBR50 didnt play well with the RBR 853 even though it was in AP mode.  It was quirky and was not quite right as if the RBR50 was interfering with smooth RBR853 operations.   My next solution was to try and replace the RBR50 (which was hardwired)  with an RBS50 -- since I had two hard wired extensions, I did this on both runs.

 

The result was pretty interesting.  The RBS50's show up in my Orbi app as wired sattelites just like they did in the past -- both directly reporting to the RBR853.  The RBS853 sattelite is at the opposite end of the property and also shows up properly in the app using a wireless connection back to the RBR853.  The benefit of this was NOT having dual wireless networks that could potentially compete with each other since the RBR50 in AP mode would have had its own.  By just using RBS50s (wired), they share the same no-kidding SSID, PW and network as an integrated package although admitedly they are not prepared for IP6 functionality.  A good tradeoff if you ask me until compatible sattelites are ready for market.

 

I will probably hard wire the RBS853 when I have an opportunity just for the the sake of doing it.

 

The QOS speedtest embedded in the RB5853 reports a speed that seems slower than what was reported by the RBR50 when it was installed as the primary router, but not by much.  I chalk that up to probably the innacuracies of the test.  Both speeds are well above what I pay for, so I have nothing to complain about.

 

Other than the device naming issue, I am still having trouble accessing the RBR853 when I am on the road (not in the LAN).  It reports the RBR850 as "disconnected" even though remote management is enabled.  When I am within the LAN, my app shows and operates the Orbi just fine.  Any hints or tips on that would be appreciated.  I thought it was because the Remote Management option reset itself on each router reboot, but I checked and it remains enabled but the functionality is not there.

 

Has anyone else noticed the "Daisy Chain" option is gone from the advanced menu?

 

I also noticed that when using the Reserved IP address functions... it is actually a two step process.  You "add" assigned devices to reserve IP addresses... but it really doesnt commit those changes until you then click the APPLY button.  If you fail to do that and reboot, the changes go away.  When you click that APPLY button, the router reboots which -- even though reboot time is faster -- is still a pain to wait for.

 

If anyone has cracked the code on the out of LAN remote management, please message me.

 

The other thing that is impressive is the greater distance of coverage for IOT devices wirelessly.  The distance between by Nest Hello Doorbell and sattelite has more than doubled... but the connection signal is far better.

 

I also found that by retaining the old SSID and Wireless PW, most (MOST) devices easily transfer over to the new AX6000 system without having to rehome their wireless affiliation.   Certain devices, mostly Amazon Alexas, have to be rehomed manually since I believe they look for MAC addresses on the wireless radios they are trying to associate with.  Of the 80 to 90 devices I have, all but about 10 jumped over to the new system without any reprogramming.

 


 

ATT GigaPower Fiber-->ONT-->BGW-210 RGW in IP Passthrough mode-->RBR850
Wired Topology RBS50---RBR 850-->RBS850--> RBS50 Ethernet backhaul
Firmware Version V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 for RBS 50 V3.2.16.6_1.4.4Router mode
Message 6 of 24
DoctorA
Luminary

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Anyone else see any disadvantages using an

RBR + RBS +RBS + 2nd RBR in AP mode because a single satellite is not available for sale yet?

My tests show that for my home Ethernet backhaul is always better.

Which Ethernet wiring is better? 

 

 RBS<---RBR--->RBS--->2nd RBR in AP mode

or 

RBR--->RBS--->RBS--->2nd RBR in AP mode

Please look at my home layout and the Ethernet wire origin from my ONT/RGW/Router corner room to the rest of the building (Blue lines).

I am thinking to place the 2nd RBR in AP mode near my balcony window glass for the backyard and pool area.

 

ATT GigaPower Fiber-->ONT-->BGW-210 RGW in IP Passthrough mode-->RBR850
Wired Topology RBS50---RBR 850-->RBS850--> RBS50 Ethernet backhaul
Firmware Version V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 for RBS 50 V3.2.16.6_1.4.4Router mode
Message 7 of 24
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Before giving perspective, do you ALREADY own an AX-6000?   Do you own any previous Orbi equipment (and if so, specifically what)

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 8 of 24
DoctorA
Luminary

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Yes, I bought it on Oct 22 from BB. My signature says 850 but I got the RBK852 model with both one router (RBR850) and one satellite (RBS850) connected together with Ethernet wire. I don't own any Orbi previous products.

Firmware VersionV3.1.6.11_1.1.5
@Chuck_M wrote:

Before giving perspective, do you ALREADY own an AX-6000?   Do you own any previous Orbi equipment (and if so, specifically what)


 

ATT GigaPower Fiber-->ONT-->BGW-210 RGW in IP Passthrough mode-->RBR850
Wired Topology RBS50---RBR 850-->RBS850--> RBS50 Ethernet backhaul
Firmware Version V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 for RBS 50 V3.2.16.6_1.4.4Router mode
Message 9 of 24
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

While waiting for the release of additional satellites... since you already have a good ethernet backbone, I suggest in the interim you look for RBS-50s.   They are far less expensive (than buying a complete AX6000 system) and they are hard-wired compatible with the AX6000 that you own.  This would avoid having to run a connected system in AP mode which would really defeat the purpose of having a single "bubble" covering your property.  The only downside would be that the portion of the property served by RBS50s would not have WiFi 6 functionality -- but then again what WiFi 6 devices do you have now!?

 

I recommend that if you do this, you think about the geography of your home and have the WiFi 6 components adjacent to each other and have the rest of the property served by satellites that can be upgraded/replaced over time.

 

It is easy to visualize where that would be in your home diagram knowing where the router has to go.   Try also to think of each router/satellite device as a 3-dimensional sphere.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 10 of 24
DoctorA
Luminary

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Thank you,
I will start by first adding one RBS-50 and see If I need more or perhaps the RBS-50Y outdoor wireless only version, when a new a FW soon hopefully will support it.
I was just looking at RBS-50s on Amazon.
It is like NG wants to rip off satellite buyers.
Single RBS-50 is $235.56 but RBK 52 is just $283.
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Orbi-Ultra-Performance-Whole-System/dp/B01K4CZOBS/ref=sr_1_5?keywords...
for $40 more you get an extra router which is useless in this situation in AP mode.



@Chuck_M wrote:

While waiting for the release of additional satellites... since you already have a good ethernet backbone, I suggest in the interim you look for RBS-50s.   They are far less expensive (than buying a complete AX6000 system) and they are hard-wired compatible with the AX6000 that you own.  This would avoid having to run a connected system in AP mode which would really defeat the purpose of having a single "bubble" covering your property.  The only downside would be that the portion of the property served by RBS50s would not have WiFi 6 functionality -- but then again what WiFi 6 devices do you have now!?

 

I recommend that if you do this, you think about the geography of your home and have the WiFi 6 components adjacent to each other and have the rest of the property served by satellites that can be upgraded/replaced over time.

 

It is easy to visualize where that would be in your home diagram knowing where the router has to go.   Try also to think of each router/satellite device as a 3-dimensional sphere.  

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

ATT GigaPower Fiber-->ONT-->BGW-210 RGW in IP Passthrough mode-->RBR850
Wired Topology RBS50---RBR 850-->RBS850--> RBS50 Ethernet backhaul
Firmware Version V3.2.16.6_1.4.4 for RBS 50 V3.2.16.6_1.4.4Router mode
Message 11 of 24
Adnim
Guide

RBK853 plus two more RBS's

Can I use 2 RBS satalites from a second RBK853 three pack as I have a user for the stand alone RBR850 but I want the satalites for a large home.  How do I go about resetting the passwords etc for the 2 never used satalites from the second RBK853 set?

Thank you, Adnim

Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 12 of 24
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 plus two more RBS's

You can. Just press the sync button on the RBR then on the RBS. They should sync up. Do this one at a time with the RBS in the same room as the RBR. 


@Adnim wrote:

Can I use 2 RBS satalites from a second RBK853 three pack as I have a user for the stand alone RBR850 but I want the satalites for a large home.  How do I go about resetting the passwords etc for the 2 never used satalites from the second RBK853 set?

Thank you, Adnim


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 13 of 24
Adnim
Guide

Re: RBK853 plus two more RBS's

thanks so much,  you guys are the best.

Adnim

Message 14 of 24
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 plus two more RBS's

Smiley Wink

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 15 of 24
Adnim
Guide

Re: RBK853 plus two more RBS's

Can you help me connect these previous generation RBS50's to a new RBR850 Router.  They need to be wirelessly connected as I have no cable to the points I need to cover.   Im having no luck.  

Thanks in advance.

 

Adnim

Message 16 of 24
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK853 plus two more RBS's

Not currently. NG was said to make 50 series RBS wirelessly compatible. No idea if or when that will happen. Somethings have been delayed to our current work events. So something I would not look forward to in the immediate future. YOu can connect them wired is all currently.


@Adnim wrote:

Can you help me connect these previous generation RBS50's to a new RBR850 Router.  They need to be wirelessly connected as I have no cable to the points I need to cover.   Im having no luck.  

Thanks in advance.

 

Adnim


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 17 of 24
Adnim
Guide

Re: RBK853 plus two more RBS's

OK, got it.  Again thanks for fast response.  I'll try hard wire the old satelites   

Stay well.

Adnim

Message 18 of 24
Adnim
Guide

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Mixed 3 piece RBR853 and older RBS50 Satalites

I installed the new AX6000 Orbi with 2 RBS850 satellites wirelessly connected.  I added 2 old RBS50 satellites from previous generation, hard wired back to the RBR 853 ROUTER.  However I'm not seeing the older RBS50 satalites share the load.  Most traffic is on the new wifi 6 hardware but the older satellites are handling maybe 2 devices or even nothing despite being hardwired to router.  
Some smart things are not getting a good enough signal to work, like outside smart lights.
Any suggestions? 

I have about 53 internet things on the network in a big house.  
thanks

Adnim

Message 19 of 24
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

I would test to make sure the RBS50s are working well. Turn OFF The RBS850s and run the RBS50s and see if your devices connect to them. Turn down the power output of the RBR850 as well. Help steer the devices towards the RBS50s. IF they connect then this would be a device problem as most devices pick and choose which signal to connect too. Not Orbi. Some devices may choose the RBS850 series over the 50 series RBS. RBS placement and distance from each other will be key.

 

I would also try the 850 system out with out the RBS50s online, see how the system handles your household with out any additional RBS online. 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 20 of 24
Adnim
Guide

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Thanks.  I will try switch off the RBS50's.  I think they work as one or two devices will show up as active from time to time. 
stay well.

Adnim

Message 21 of 24
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Enjoy. Smiley Wink

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RAXE50 and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 22 of 24
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

What firmware is in the RBS50s?  .16 is the latest.  If you dont have that, go to the downloads page and do a manual update of each.

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 23 of 24
Adnim
Guide

Re: Two RBK 853 systems with one RBR in AP and two RBS850

Thanks for responding. Just checked. It’s V2.5.1.16. So it’s up to date. Thanks. I’ll keep moving stuff around and try get better spread around the house.
Stay well
Message 24 of 24
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