Reply

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

And of course there are some that have not or had little experience with this in router mode. I've had my system since 2019 and only saw a few DNS problems mentioned in ths thread on prior v12 FW. Since installing v1 of the current release. Nothing, again, nothing in DNS has appeared since. Currently using ISP DNS, IPv6 6to4 DNS, Armor and Traffic Meter is disabled. DST enabled. Not here to argue either. Not everyone sees this issue. 


@Garwoofoo wrote:

That's bizarre, that doesn't correlate with my experience at all.

 

Router mode - constant DNS errors on all devices

AP mode - no issues

 




Again, for those that do, I recommend you contact NG support and let them know what your having problems with. All this needs to be addressed by NG support and users that are seeing this. Nothing we can do here in the forums. NG support and engineering doesn't watch the forums. So best way to make it known to to contact NG support directly. 

 

Good Luck. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 501 of 679
vajim
Master

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@FURRYe38 wrote:

And of course there are some that have not or had little experience with this in router mode. I've had my system since 2019 and only saw a few DNS problems mentioned in ths thread on prior v12 FW. Since installing v1 of the current release. Nothing, again, nothing in DNS has appeared since. Currently using ISP DNS, IPv6 6to4 DNS, Armor and Traffic Meter is disabled. DST enabled. Not here to argue either. Not everyone sees this issue. 


@Garwoofoo wrote:

That's bizarre, that doesn't correlate with my experience at all.

 

Router mode - constant DNS errors on all devices

AP mode - no issues

 




Again, for those that do, I recommend you contact NG support and let them know what your having problems with. All this needs to be addressed by NG support and users that are seeing this. Nothing we can do here in the forums. NG support and engineering doesn't watch the forums. So best way to make it known to to contact NG support directly. 

 

Good Luck. 


Advising folks to contact NG support is a hopeless proposition.  Unless the NG product is under warranty NG is not interested in what the consumer has to say.

Message 502 of 679
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Exactly, the problem is the '90 day support window'. While the warrenty is 1-2 years. After these 90 days there is no option in contacting support. Only option is to exchange this product over and over again. However, exchanging this product doesn't fix the actual problem. Which is software related (firmware). 

 

Meanwhile Netgear is acting like nothing is wrong to those who actually manage to contact Netgear support. While it has been clearly proven. Again: for the Orbi AX Pro Netgear fixed this exact same problem a year ago. However, for its consumer grade product they simply don't care.

Message 503 of 679
stsh
Star

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@energie wrote:

Exactly, the problem is the '90 day support window'. While the warrenty is 1-2 years. After these 90 days there is no option in contacting support. Only option is to exchange this product over and over again. However, exchanging this product doesn't fix the actual problem. Which is software related (firmware). 

 

Meanwhile Netgear is acting like nothing is wrong to those who actually manage to contact Netgear support. While it has been clearly proven. Again: for the Orbi AX Pro Netgear fixed this exact same problem a year ago. However, for its consumer grade product they simply don't care.


You do realize how their support works? The first line support which you're getting by default is basically some random person from india who knows absolutely nothing about the product and is simply reading from script. Then if you get through that and get it escalated you get the 2nd line support - who actually knows something but that person is also not an engineer by any means and has no control or input into software development cycle. The level of knowledge is about right for a user who read the manual. I actually bit the bullet at some point and went through the first 2 and got the case escalated by the 2nd line - supposedly to the engineering. but then it went quiet, so I have no clue what happens after. I suspect that nothing really.

 

What I'm saying is that simply calling the support and talking to whoever picks the phone is not enough. None of the devs will ever see or hear about these calls.

Message 504 of 679
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Yeah I know. The issue needs to be escalated. However, the only ones that can do that / push for it are the ones who can actually call with Netgear support. When I came aware that I had this issue, for the first period I thought it must be some configuration or something else. By the time I realized it is the product/firmware itself I was too late. And the 90 day window passed. I think this is the case for many.

 

Read the story about the guy waisting 4 months trying to figure out why his DNS wouldn't always resolve. Pretty much most people would not think it is firmware related. Unless you come across a thread like this. Same for me. The only difference is now is that users can become aware much quicker because we have been keeping on posting.

Message 505 of 679
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

The problem with the fixes (or non-fixes) is that they universally require at least some tech-savvy, which most (if not all) the posters here have.  The larger overarching problem is that my mother does not.

 

She doesn't even have internet, but you get my point - the majority of users do not have the knowledge/ability to ascertain what's really going on (and likely why Orbi's controls are so dumbed down).

 

There is no doubt in my mind (at least what's still there) that the vast majority of people with this issue aren't even looking at this thread.  They are calling their ISP, thinking something is just wrong with the internet or their computer/browser, etc.

 

The more people (read "average users") know about the problem, the louder the voice gets.

Message 506 of 679
msinex
Apprentice

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

@tak1313 , this is definately my biggest frustration.  They are marketing this as consumer grade, but the firmware is buggy as hell.  This is bad enough, but then it is made much worse with very poor tech support with a very limited window in ordre to attempt to monetize a fix to a problem that shouldn't exist.  I know enough about networking to be dangerous, but I'm by no means an expert.  I'm just sick and tired of spending so much time trying to fix this issue regardless of my IT expertise.  They either need to fix the issue, provide appropriate support, or stop marketing this thing as consumer-grade.  I also think there is some shadiness behind what they are doing with Armour...but that's a whole other topic.

Message 507 of 679
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Consumer grade at pro prices.  Orbi is one of the most expensive (if not THE most expensive) home mesh system on the market.  Google, Eero, TP-Link, etc. all have mesh systems at WAY lower price points.  Even Netgear has a cheaper mesh system (ala Nighthawk line).

 

Orbi is marketed as their concierge priced system, but it works like the corner dive drug motel (with similar service).

Message 508 of 679
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Forgot to mention - the difficulty is getting some kind of GOOD media attention because invariably, Netgear will be an advertiser on their site, and so they (media) have need to "keep the advertisers happy."  I think DongKnows has a policy of telling it like it is, but I'm not sure.

Message 509 of 679
stsh
Star

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

At this point I truly believe that there are no good consumer grade routers. If you want a decent router these days you'll have to get a business grade cisco or something. Unless you want to bet on some random chinese crap off amazon and try to find the one that works for what you need it.

I work in IT my whole life and I can clearly see how over the years home-grade products are getting locked down and dumbed down while the actual technology in them getting more complex. The problem is that average users want a device that does everything but is controlled with 3 buttons via an app on their phone and manufacturers do exactly that. And some things just cannot be simplified to this extent. For example my previous orbi had more settings in it's interface than this current one. And a simple netgear router I had before that had even more settings.

And then the development and qa goes offshore to the cheapest countries where they can hire 5 engineers for the price of one. And this is the result of all that.

 

 

 

Message 510 of 679
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Noticed this as well. Not only with NG products, with other major router mfrs. They no longer do there own core development. 3rd parties are at play now. Notices that across the board, home product experiences have declinded over the past 10+ years. Sad to see this though.


@stsh wrote:

At this point I truly believe that there are no good consumer grade routers. If you want a decent router these days you'll have to get a business grade cisco or something. Unless you want to bet on some random chinese crap off amazon and try to find the one that works for what you need it.

I work in IT my whole life and I can clearly see how over the years home-grade products are getting locked down and dumbed down while the actual technology in them getting more complex. The problem is that average users want a device that does everything but is controlled with 3 buttons via an app on their phone and manufacturers do exactly that. And some things just cannot be simplified to this extent. For example my previous orbi had more settings in it's interface than this current one. And a simple netgear router I had before that had even more settings.

And then the development and qa goes offshore to the cheapest countries where they can hire 5 engineers for the price of one. And this is the result of all that.

 

 

 


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 511 of 679
vajim
Master

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@stsh wrote:

At this point I truly believe that there are no good consumer grade routers. If you want a decent router these days you'll have to get a business grade cisco or something. Unless you want to bet on some random chinese crap off amazon and try to find the one that works for what you need it.

I work in IT my whole life and I can clearly see how over the years home-grade products are getting locked down and dumbed down while the actual technology in them getting more complex. The problem is that average users want a device that does everything but is controlled with 3 buttons via an app on their phone and manufacturers do exactly that. And some things just cannot be simplified to this extent. For example my previous orbi had more settings in it's interface than this current one. And a simple netgear router I had before that had even more settings.

And then the development and qa goes offshore to the cheapest countries where they can hire 5 engineers for the price of one. And this is the result of all that.

 

 

yes and let me add that as consumers, there is no such thing as the 'home network' as in one size fits all.  The one thing I've leanred in this forum is the huge range of wants and desires of the Orbi user.  As you can imagine, I've everything from, ...'I have no clue what a mesh system is, but I'm going to buy the Orbi anyway, to the crazy number of ways the user can make configuration changes to their network.  "Uncheck this box, no wait, check this box,....then change this number....??"  

 

For me, and I like things simple or as you describe above, just give me 3 choices (maybe) and no I don't use the app.  The world needs to go on a app diet.

 

 


 

Message 512 of 679
vajim
Master

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Noticed this as well. Not only with NG products, with other major router mfrs. They no longer do there own core development. 3rd parties are at play now. Notices that across the board, home product experiences have declinded over the past 10+ years. Sad to see this though.


 

 

and if you're talking about firmware....the real sadness is how folks like you continue to promote the firmware here knowing there is a fault.  But lets try this.....

 

 

 


 


 

Message 513 of 679
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Sadly, with the exception of individuals on forums like this and other "tech" forums, the bottom line is that the vast majority of consumers demand the simplicity but combined with the complex capability.  They WANT the set and forget - the "I don't want to think about how to make things work" (or even think at all) mentality of the modern consumer.

 

We, consumers at large, cut our own throats on these matters.

 

Everyone wants better, stronger, faster, but cheaper.  This has given rise to offshoring for ever cheaper and cheaper cost of goods (and Walmart), but at the cost of ever decreasing quality.

 

Even houses in the U.S. have gotten bigger and better (as far as amenities), but the result is that oh so many houses are now built with shoddy materials by shoddy contractors using shoddy construction techniques.

 

Netgear is now the house that consumerism built.

Message 514 of 679
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I first saw this start back in 2012 when Smart Connect wifi feature made it's debut. Advanced features seen at the time on prior router products started disappearing. The home user just wants it simple so the router mfrs started to comply. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 515 of 679
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I am now using my old Asus N66U router (with custom firmware) as router and the Orbi AX as access point. Up until now I am not seeing any DNS errors (which is to be expected). But I did gain a lot more fine grained options in return. I am not sure how (and if) this set-up will impact the overall performance of my network. The wired devices are still connected to the primary Orbi AX router (= now access point).

 

 

Message 516 of 679
msinex
Apprentice

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I get all the issues with them having to "dummy-down" options and such to make it consumer-grade, but I think that isn't really a driver of the DNS issues in my mind.  It's not like Netgear removed the ability to set your own DNS settings in the interface, it's the fact that this option doesn't work when you set it.  Let's be honest, a stable DNS interface should be a pretty baseline expectation of any entry-level router.

 

I still think this has something to do with them wanting to sell their "Armor" service to get a monthly benefit on top of the large upfront investment.  I also tend to think they are also using the Armor service to capture data on traffic usage for their own purposes or monetization.  They fixed this same issue with their professional series which doesn't have the Armor service (I don't think it does at least), so I'm betting they are either unwilling or unable to fix it because of some impact back to how that "upgrade" functions.

Message 517 of 679
energie
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Yeah, I guess it could have something to do with Armor or its implementation. In any case, the only thing we really do know is that the DNS resolving mechanism on the Orbi AX is defective. My best guess on this is that Netgear doesn't want to put resources/butget in to fixing the firmware anymore. The only focus seems to be easy to resolve security updates or indeed things like Armor. Which provide an additional income for Netgear. It is frustrating. But this has been the case since last year for this product and I don't think this will change.

 

And even it will change. What does it say about Netgear taking 1 year to resolve a problem like this.I think this is simply the business model. It happened to me years ago aswell with a Netgear router I had back then. I said never again Netgear. And guess what. Nothing changed.

Message 518 of 679

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Completely agree, very frustrating.    More so, since some of the advertised features are still not available.   With Circle parental controlls gone (unless you purchase the Circle device directly) and the Netgear Parental Controls not yet available.  I noticed the website has been updated to not advertise this, but at the time of purchase, Parental controls was an advertised feature.      Interesting to see how long it's taking for it to come to their flagship Orbi AX4200 and AX6000 mesh systems.

 

Is it actually working for those that have an AC3000 system?  https://www.netgear.com/home/services/smart-parental-controls/

 

 

Message 519 of 679
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Yes. There was a slight change in where they put PC in the UI, 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Circle-Smart-Parental-Controls/Missing-parental-controls-on-firmwar...

 

however the feature is still controlled by the Circle App:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Circle-Smart-Parental-Controls/Missing-parental-controls-on-firmwar...


@SeaRefractor wrote:

Completely agree, very frustrating.    More so, since some of the advertised features are still not available.   With Circle parental controlls gone (unless you purchase the Circle device directly) and the Netgear Parental Controls not yet available.  I noticed the website has been updated to not advertise this, but at the time of purchase, Parental controls was an advertised feature.      Interesting to see how long it's taking for it to come to their flagship Orbi AX4200 and AX6000 mesh systems.

 

Is it actually working for those that have an AC3000 system?  https://www.netgear.com/home/services/smart-parental-controls/

 

 


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 520 of 679

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

So it's still Circle?   And Circle has not come to the AX series of Orbi's yet?    Wow, just wow.

Message 521 of 679
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@energie wrote:

I am now using my old Asus N66U router (with custom firmware) as router and the Orbi AX as access point. Up until now I am not seeing any DNS errors (which is to be expected). But I did gain a lot more fine grained options in return. I am not sure how (and if) this set-up will impact the overall performance of my network. The wired devices are still connected to the primary Orbi AX router (= now access point).

 

 


Mine got better, with the caveat that my servic is only 100mpbs, so wan - lan throughput isn't an issue where most of any bottlenecking would occur depending on the processor/memory of the router (I am using an RT-AC86U).

 

Where mine significantly improved was in bufferbloat using Asus' QOS settings.  Orbi, with it's dumbed down WMM could not control enough of the bufferbloat that was occuring.  Using the Asus as router, I set the QOS priority along with a download limit of 120 (go figure), and upload limit of 5.4 (my 'rated' upload limit is 5), and I went from a C/D for bufferbloat to A/A+.  My wife no longer has stuttering problems with the Zoom meetings for work.

Message 522 of 679
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues


@energie wrote:

Yeah, I guess it could have something to do with Armor or its implementation. In any case, the only thing we really do know is that the DNS resolving mechanism on the Orbi AX is defective. My best guess on this is that Netgear doesn't want to put resources/butget in to fixing the firmware anymore. The only focus seems to be easy to resolve security updates or indeed things like Armor. Which provide an additional income for Netgear. It is frustrating. But this has been the case since last year for this product and I don't think this will change.

 

And even it will change. What does it say about Netgear taking 1 year to resolve a problem like this.I think this is simply the business model. It happened to me years ago aswell with a Netgear router I had back then. I said never again Netgear. And guess what. Nothing changed.


I still PERSONALLY think the underlying issue is that they mucked up dnsmasque and THAT is what they're using to mine for IP data (versus only mining for data through paying customers with Armor).  Fixing dnsmasque s/b fairly straightforward, yet they can't do it.  They diabled telnet because some were going in and fixing/altering dnsmasque themselves.

 

They can't figure out how to fix dnsmasque and still have it snatch the data from all the users.

 

No, I do not also believe there is a sub species of aliens disguised as humans that will one day rise and take over civilization.

Message 523 of 679
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

I believe no. I think the core feature is NGs code but NG uses the Cicle app as the interface and configuration for it. 

NG said in the next few months from what one of the forum moderators said. If I remember it took NG same time frame to get Circle on there Orbi AC systems. May have been there CBR40 that took a bit to get going. Not the first time.


@SeaRefractor wrote:

So it's still Circle?   And Circle has not come to the AX series of Orbi's yet?    Wow, just wow.


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CAX80 v2.1.2.1(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v4.6.3.16
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200CM2000, Orbi CBK40, CBR750, RBK50(v22), SXR30(v110), R7000(v34), R7800(v84), R7960P(v82), EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v120) and WNHDE111
Message 524 of 679
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Intermittent DNS Errors and WiFi Issues

Asus Router / Orbi AP (or just use Asus) = FREE parental controls (and free IP protection).

 

Dicslaimer - I do NOT work or know anyone/is related to anyone working for Asus.  I just REALLY like Asus after experiencing what Orbi can (and mostly can't) do.

Message 525 of 679
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