Re: New Online Update 4.6.3.16 (RBR850/RBS850)

Quaksyx · ‎2021-09-27

It is — no issues actually. Part of me feels like I should update the satellites to v4.6.3.16 manually just to avoid possibility of auto update to an old firmware, but messages on here as well as a recent RMA need due to these firmware offerings have me thinking twice…

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-27

Lets keep it where it's at for now. If it's working, lets not bother it.

N3tworkDud3 · ‎2021-09-27

New thing for me today - checked the status of my system - now the satellite is out of sync. I rebooted it, showed a poor status. Then - back to out of sync.

What a joy.

Furry - not initerested in what you have to say about this - any reply will be ignored as this is 100% related to the firmware update failure of Netgear. No I'm not going to go down to 3.x firmware and finegeling the router(s) to prevent auto updates at this time. Netgear needs to step up.

Anyone thinking of a class action? I am.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-27

You'll need to contact NG support this and let them know what your experiencing then.

Good Luck.

@N3tworkDud3 wrote:

New thing for me today - checked the status of my system - now the satellite is out of sync. I rebooted it, showed a poor status. Then - back to out of sync.

What a joy.

Furry - not initerested in what you have to say about this - any reply will be ignored as this is 100% related to the firmware update failure of Netgear. No I'm not going to go down to 3.x firmware and finegeling the router(s) to prevent auto updates at this time. Netgear needs to step up.

Anyone thinking of a class action? I am.

WRSORBI · ‎2021-09-27

Furry...your suggestion to power down everything for 24 hours seems to have remedied the satellite backhaul oscillating between poor and good that I was experiencing introduced with the 4.6.3.16 fiirmware. It has been 72 hours since power back up and I haven't seen this condition return. Thanks.

Garwoofoo · ‎2021-09-28

I don't fully understand it but I have the same thing to report. I unplugged my misbehaving satellite for several hours overnight (mostly because it kept flashing blue, then white, and waking me up!) Since I plugged it back in the following morning, the system's been stable again as far as I can tell. Speeds are back to normal and I haven't noticed any satellite dropouts. It's been a few days now.

I still don't trust this firmware - I'm not making any changes to the configuration for now, as I'm concerned that any kind of reboot will cause the problems to recur. But at least the system is usable for now.

I genuinely don't understand why unplugging the system for a few hours might resolve problems that unplugging for a few minutes does not.

N3tworkDud3 · ‎2021-09-28

@Garwoofoo wrote:
I genuinely don't understand why unplugging the system for a few hours might resolve problems that unplugging for a few minutes does not.

It doesn't. Any processes that run get killed off when you power it down. You don't want to unplug and plug back in immediately, but allow a few minutes to pass - 5-10 should be the most you need.

Edit: Should probably qualify this - if you kill the power to all your devices, 5-10 minutes is all you should need. But - if you only power off a troubling sattelite, keeping it off a period of time may allow the RBR to time out trying to communicate with the satellite which could be part of the issue.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-28

@WRSORBI @Garwoofoo Thanks for letting us know. Yes I agree this seems odd that 24 hours seems to be key in the system working again. No idea why unless there is something else working behind the scenes that 24 hours seems to get reset somewhere else and then after that all works. I thought that a few minutes would be enough but when I ran out of time troubleshooting this, I just unplugged it all and came back to it the next day, 24 hours and it started working. It's crazy for sure.

Glad it's working now.

titaniumrx8 · ‎2021-09-28

If powering off for an extended period (24 hours) fixes an issue, it would indicate a heat induced problem. For the satellites going through repetitive signal seeking, the transmitter must be cycling into high power mode creating heat soak. Letting it cool, then getting re-synced might be avoiding the overheating.

Everyone should keep track if the problem/resolution repeats itself. I'd probably RMA the units and hope for a more stable replacement.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-28

Anything is possible. Why I'm curious if a shorter time frame of being OFF would work as well. Like 30 minutes or 1 hour...

Only reason why I mentioned it in my post was that I had spent enough time trying to figure out what was happening, I had to stop and come back to it. I turned it off and left it, went to work the next day and came home and started fiddling with it again and found everything worked, no reboot loop and I was able to get in to AP mode with v16.

N3tworkDud3 · ‎2021-09-28

Did something interesting. Ran the Enable LAN/WAN Packet Capture on my satellite (ip.addr/debug.htm). Saw manhy calls to http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/. Also saw:

Number of hops: 255 (should be 1) With 255, the connection shows "poor"
Many repeats for a MAC address not resolving to IP.
Checks for Firmware in the folder for 4.6.3
Firmware looking to https://http.fw.updates1.netgear.com/rbs850/V4.6.3/us/fileinfo.txt
Uplink snr = 31 Rate to CAP = 520 Mbps (this one is interesting - the SNR is really low - the cap of 520 Mbps - not sure what radio it's tied to. I've suspected the Orbi has limited the speed I can get per device since installing them)
Lots of kern.err llines
Etc. etc etc.

Didn't run the capture that long either. Lots of interesting info. that's going to take a while to get through.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-28

Is this with the RBS in same room as RBR or at the remote RBS location placement?

N3tworkDud3 · ‎2021-09-28

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Is this with the RBS in same room as RBR or at the remote RBS location placement?

If you are asking me - it's a few rooms away - don't want them too close and I'm not moving it to troubelshoot - worked great when i first bought them. Firmware updates the past year has made some functionality problematic - but not the connection between the RBR and RBS.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-28

Would be good to place in same room as RBR to check logs. Then move it back. Yes I know, this is only for troubleshooting.

Otherwise, you'll need to contact NG support.

You can also try leaving the system unpowered for a few hours and see if this help. Others are posting that leaving the RBR and RBS unplugged for 24 hours seems to be working for them. I'm curious if leaving it OFF for less than a couple of hours results is any differences.

NG will have to fix all this regardless. Either try the suggestions or downgrade the system while you wait for NG to fix this.

N3tworkDud3 · ‎2021-09-28

Super curious why you think it’s better to get logs with the RBS and RBR in the same room.

bullm00n · ‎2021-09-28

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Anything is possible. Why I'm curious if a shorter time frame of being OFF would work as well. Like 30 minutes or 1 hour...

Only reason why I mentioned it in my post was that I had spent enough time trying to figure out what was happening, I had to stop and come back to it. I turned it off and left it, went to work the next day and came home and started fiddling with it again and found everything worked, no reboot loop and I was able to get in to AP mode with v16.

I did a dirty install and only powered everything down for 30 minutes...maybe an hour, tops.

This has been the most stable my setup has been in quite a while. My 60+ devices: Servers, PCs, iPhones, tablets, IoT devices, cameras, Sonos system, etc., have all been very solid with excellent performance. Issues I had with the RBS Admin WEB interface getting hung up have also been resolved as best I can tell. Figures crossed it stays that way.

Garwoofoo · ‎2021-09-29

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Anything is possible. Why I'm curious if a shorter time frame of being OFF would work as well. Like 30 minutes or 1 hour...

In my case my satellite was off for seven, eight hours max overnight. But it definitely seemed to resolve problems that a shorter shutdown (5 minutes or so) had not. It still makes no sense to me.

jayeshm · ‎2021-09-29

Well i tried all that is suggested here (barring the downgrades) and it made no difference. I had them unplugged for a day or more, reconnected them, it worked fine for a few hours and back to reboots.

This same exact hardware was fine before 4.6.3.16 was rolled out. Another thing i noticed... its completely ruined the backhaul. The earlier setup was my satellites could connect to each other fine and i had EXCELLENT coverage with them. Now? They only insist on connecting with the main router (and completely fail).

I am giving up for now. I will check back later if netgear does anything to fix this bull**bleep**.

TimCakir · ‎2021-09-29

I have enough of trying to make their **bleep**ty firmware work! Cant they not just fix it? Also, I hope they dont expect me to buy a NG product ever again!

I now switched the satellite off and will try the 30mins-1 hour option and if that doesnt work, when I go to bed will switch both off for 7-8 hours, lets see, this is my last try before I throw these in the bir or try to sell them. Everyone is raving about Linksys and Ubiquiti.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-29

@bullm00n @Garwoofoo

Thanks for letting us know results of powering the system off for a extended period of time. Seems that maybe a hour is a good point. Again, only seems to be happening on v4. Hoping that NG will get this mess fixed soon so extended power downs are not needed. At least for now it's a option to try.

Keep monitoring. Hopefully you'll be ok till next update.

bullm00n · ‎2021-09-29

@FURRYe38 wrote:
@bullm00n @Garwoofoo
Thanks for letting us know results of powering the system off for a extended period of time. Seems that maybe a hour is a good point. Again, only seems to be happening on v4. Hoping that NG will get this mess fixed soon so extended power downs are not needed. At least for now it's a option to try.

Keep monitoring. Hopefully you'll be ok till next update.

I find it interesting the range of and type of issues everyone is experiencing and the odd workarounds that work for some and not others. There must be some other interactions going on like switches or connected devices. FWIW, I have almost always had to power cycle / rest my setup after changing the firmware - especially the RBS. And it usually takes a few tries to get things sorted out. Part of that may be getting the WAN Aggregation sync'd with the router and modem and most times I must disable the WAN Aggregation, then re-enable it after the system is up. It's also strange how "unstable" it seems right after updating firmware and how it becomes stable some time afterwards. For example, I could reboot or power cycle everything now and it will come right back up no problem, but immediately after new firmware, it takes a bit of coddling to get it working.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-09-29

I agreee. Over the past year seems that Orbi AX has been getting more odd behaviors in FW and in operation. I normally just power OFF the RBS and RBR for 1 minute after FW updates I I wanted to help check everyones complaints about having to do factory resets after FW updates. Seems it worked for a while, then a reset happened and now we have to power OFF for a longer period of time. Normally i set up my RBR first, no ISP connection and get it running. Sync up the RBS. Then go for ISP connection. I usually enable LAG after I know the RBR is online and working ok. I haven't done that during initial install of the RBR.

@bullm00n wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

@bullm00n @Garwoofoo

Thanks for letting us know results of powering the system off for a extended period of time. Seems that maybe a hour is a good point. Again, only seems to be happening on v4. Hoping that NG will get this mess fixed soon so extended power downs are not needed. At least for now it's a option to try.

Keep monitoring. Hopefully you'll be ok till next update.

I find it interesting the range of and type of issues everyone is experiencing and the odd workarounds that work for some and not others. There must be some other interactions going on like switches or connected devices. FWIW, I have almost always had to power cycle / rest my setup after changing the firmware - especially the RBS. And it usually takes a few tries to get things sorted out. Part of that may be getting the WAN Aggregation sync'd with the router and modem and most times I must disable the WAN Aggregation, then re-enable it after the system is up. It's also strange how "unstable" it seems right after updating firmware and how it becomes stable some time afterwards. For example, I could reboot or power cycle everything now and it will come right back up no problem, but immediately after new firmware, it takes a bit of coddling to get it working.

ELHK · ‎2021-10-01

After update this firmware, the backhaul of satellite to Router always keeps in 2.4G, so it igives slow connection to other devices connected.

FURRYe38 · ‎2021-10-02

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update?

Try unpluggging the RBR and RBS for 1 hour or maybe over night when you go to bed then back ON in the morning.

Quaksyx · ‎2021-10-03

So the autoupdate had hit one of my satellites [RBS850] now too (previously had updated only my router [RBR850]). My other satellite was knocked offline, which I assume was related to the autoupdate trying to push to it too. Nonetheless, I went ahead and updated the final satellite to 4.6.3.16, uneventfully (thank god). Everything was working...

I decided to go for bust and try to enable the Ethernet Port Aggregation setting again, which I reported being unsuccessful with following my previous update to the v4.x.x.x firmware series (but was running successfully prior to v4.x.x.x). FURRYe38 had reported diffiicultly as well here with the same but was able to finally get connectivity following release/renew of the router's IP a few times.

Unfortunately, I was not so lucky. Once I enabled the Ethernet Port Aggregation on my modem, made the extra connection between modem and Orbi router with another ethernet cable, and enable the setting on the Orbi, it lost internet connectivity and could not pull an IP address. I attempted to release/renew the Orbi over the next 5-10 minutes to no avail. Turning off the Ethernet Port Aggregation setting did not restore my connectivity. I could not access the config setting of my modem to turn it back off there either. I finally had to factory reset my cable modem (via paper clip), directly connect my PC to it and reactivate it onto the Comcast network, then factory reset my Orbi and set it all up again to re-establish connectivity. This was a bit painful to say the least...

I'm back up again, everything is working, but I'm not able to use Ethernet Port Aggregation anymore. Allegedly my downstream link from Comcast is 1.2 Gbps, but w/o that feature, I'm only able to realize 1 Gbps. Guess it's not that big of a deal, but it would be nice if Netgear would rectify this issue.