Re: Orbi 970 Wired Backhaul not Woking

I made sure the cable from the network switch is into the 10g yellow port, and it was. If I move the LAN cable to any other port on the RBR, then the RBR itself goes up/down on the network until it eventually stops responding to pings. Moving the cable back to the yellow 10g internet port brings it back and things are stable AS LONG AS no ethernet cables which come from the LAN are connected to the RBS units. I can try to setup everything in a "lab" in routing mode. I suspect that would work and it is only access-point mode where this isn't working correctly. Without visibility into what the RBR sees (arp tables and interfaces), there isn't much information I can provide other than it doesn't appear to work in access point mode with an ethernet backhaul for the RBS units.

It's strange (to me) that the Orbi app can't connect to the RBR if EITHER SBS unit have an ethernet cable attached. The web ui is working from a browser on the same phone (but no satellites are shown as connected).

I noted when I connected the SBR to one of the OTHER (non yellow 10g internet) ports, it saw other wired connections on the network (main router, for example). It does NOT see any other devices that are on the same lan. That sounds like it's doing vlan tagging or something? The only devices the SBR saw were other wired connections that I had plugged into the RBR when I'm using the yellow 10g internet port. It did not show the router or any other wired device on the network.

My Asus routers DO show all the wired devices on the network when connected using the same cables. So, the RBR interface isn't doing things right when it comes to running in access point mode with the interfaces on the SBS units connected to ethernet.

Offhand, one could simply connect the ethernet cables and let the satellites fall "offline" from the RBR. The satellites appear to retain the SSID/password and can function as a standalone unit. I can login into each unit to see devices connected. So, this is sorta like having three separate units and then wifi devices can try to roam around from one ap to another to find the best signal. Not idea, but it would work.

The downside is that all central management is lost, which is kinda the point with these things. If I wanted to change the ssid/password, I'd have to disconnect the network cable to allow the SBS to connect back to the RBR, then change the info desired for the global config, ensure the config is sync'd, then plug back in the network cable and let it fall offline.

Orbi app wouldn't be able to be used to even check the RBR as it won't seem to connect if the SBS units are connected to ethernet.

Time to get a beer and setup a lab tonight, I guess. I am betting that routing mode will work with an ethernet backhaul but that access point mode will not.

Here's my config that does not appear to work. Tried both the 10g and 2.5g ports on RBS. Docs say to use 10g ports. Router provides default gw, firewall for stuff coming in, dns, and dhcp services. Netgear switch is an unmanaged device, no vlans, no firewall within the LAN, and no tagging.

I've set up so many Orbi systems in AP mode I can do this in my sleep. 

So you need to put the Switch AFTER the RBR. 

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System 📡

Connect the Yellow WAN port on the RBR to the host router.

Then connect one of the LAN 1Gb ports on the back of the RBR to any port on the Switch. 

Then connect the RBS to the switch. 

How is the RBR configured for AP mode? Dynamic or Static IP? I use static IP when I configure AP mode. 

Just ran a test on the bench. In AP mode (as I drew it), it doesn't work. If I just flip to Router Mode with ethernet backhaul (as shown on page 23), then it works.

Switch goes AFTER the RBR? This would use two ports on the RBR (one from the router and then another one back to the lan)? That's pretty strange and would explain how it "routes" between the Internet 10g and the Ethernet 10g. It should NOT be required, in my opinion. The LAN mac/ip should not require a second interface. That would require putting the RBR in the "network closet" which is furthest away from stuff and I was not intending on putting an AP there. I don't have two home runs to one location from where the router is located to be able to easily do this. Hmmm...

Let me test the switch AFTER the RBR on the bench. It is one way to do it, but nobody else does it like that. Docs need a diagram showing AP mode with backhaul internet configuration.

Again for ANY RBS ethernet connected for BH, ruoter or AP mode, They have to be connected BEHIND the RBR, even if a switch is in the mix. Had to be behind the RBR. Only one port on the RBR would be needed for the switch. Again, the RBR needs to be connected to the host router using it's yellow WAN port. Then one LAN port out to the switch, then the RBS can connect to the swtich. 

The think I included shows this configuration, is for both router and AP modes. Orbi has been doing this for years, since first generation Orbi started. 

And I hope we can get this WORKING instead of Woking. I don't think these would be good to eat. 😂

Ok, I moved the RBR just after the router and before the switch and it works when I connect ethernet cables to the RBS units. This means many things which isn't entirely desireable. Firstly, ALL packets from the entire network flow through the Orbi RBR. If I reboot the RBR or it has a problem, the entire network to the internet is down until it comes online. I have a lot of ethernet for desktops and such throughout. Not wild about the fact that the RBR needs to be up to work. A firmware patch takes the whole network down, instead of just this device. That seems a weird way to do it.

Fiber comes into the basement. Router and switch are there. No need for AP there, would prefer them scattered. To do that this way, I'd need a cable from the router out to an AP location (rbr site), then another cable back to the network basement to plug back into the switch. I didn't wire this place up with two cat6e cables to any location where I can do that. So, I would need to just put the RBR in the basement. Less than ideal. Would be tough to get another cat6 cable from the network basement to an AP location. Nothing is impossible, however!

Will head out to eat (not wok-based food, sadly) and figure out what I want to do. This is probably fine for most people at home, but I'm weird...probably.

Replying to my own post.  This link posted above:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System

Shows:

Which is how I TRIED to set it up. Nothing to the yellow port here. When I connected it that way, the Orbi would drop packets when running a ping:  5 good...5 bad...etc. 

 I have done some searching, I could not find ANYWHERE that said you could set up a system like yours with the switch before the router (AP) and satellites in anyone's mesh system. This is just how mesh systems work.  

An unmanaged switch does not perform Network Address Translation (NAT) or routing functions for the Netgear "router", which is the ONLY device that can manage the backhaul to the satellites. The satellites HAVE TO communicate to the Netgear for backhaul - even though it's not the router. The Asus true router cannot manage the backhaul. The unmanaged switch does not forward backhaul data between router/AP and satellites, that's not what it does. Which is why Wireless works, the Netgear AP/router and satellites can 'see' each other on their backhaul - it's like you plugged the Ethernet backhaul cables from satellite directly into the Netgear AP/router (albeit it would be a slower connection due to the ports you would have to connect with).

Just set it up as FURRYe38 posted above, Asus router -> Netgear AP -> switch -> satellites. It will work.

The issue, of course, is that "Access Point" mode should NOT have the RBR doing ANY routing. There is no NAT or anything happening in "access point" mode. There is no reason to run packets through the router in access point mode. I've run the Asus stuff and it does NOT require this configuration. When in "access point" mode, ALL ports are now part of the LAN...even the WAN (internet) port. In access point mode, the WAN and Internet nomenclature are meaningless; yet, Netgear wants to see packets on different ports? What for? When I connected to JUST the internet port in access point mode, I could ping everything. Plug in a RBS to the network and they fell offline? Why? It would appear that the RBR needs to see the SBS units on the LAN ports and ignores the "Internet" port, even though that same port is obviously already on the LAN. There should be no need for the second cable. It's just dumb. All ports should be LAN ports in access point mode, even the internet port.

Obviously if this is running as a Router, then you must have a WAN port (outside) and LAN ports (inside) and the RBR does the nat and such. In access point mode, there is no routing. I have a router/firewall unit that can run for years without needing a reboot and taking down the network. In this configuration, the RBR is a critical piece of network equipment.

The reason one chooses to run in access point mode is to remove the dependence on any wireless access point. If you don't have a router/firewall and want to use this RBR, then you can do that in Routing mode.

I have it working, but I'm not satisfied with the configuration and will likely be sending it back. I have some devices that show as "wired" when using the UI that are not wired. It took several hours before an iPhone showed as wireless in the UI.

Regardless of router mode or AP mode, Orbi systems have specific data traffic for the backhaul when ethernet connected to RBS. This REQUIRES the RBS to be connected behind the RBR, including any connecting LAN switchings in the mix or middle. These can NOT be connected in parallel. Must be serially connected BEHIND the RBR. Been like this since Orbi first came out in 2016. The WAN port is required to be used to connect to the connecting host router in router or AP mode. Same goes for NGs Nighthawk routers. How NG chooses to configure there routers. 

userguy if the Netgear/AP and satellites are all connected to ports of the same unmanaged switch, and since we know the unmanaged switch nor the NG router will do NAT, how does the backhaul protocol get from the satellites to the NG AP that needs to manage the backhaul, since it's proprietary (as every network vendor's backhaul protocol is today)? The Asus does not support that. There is no common mesh protocol. The industry has tried to adapt this with EasyMesh, but it's not supported by many, if any, yet.

You proved the point with this as WiFi backhaul works - that's because the backhaul mesh protocol can get to the Netgear AP. Since the Asus router can't route mesh protocol, and the switch will not, well there you go.

You have also seen the documentation on Netgear's site on how to set up Ethernet backhaul. They do not show your configuration as a way to set it up. You think that means because they don't say it won't work that it should - but the article is "how to set it up" not "what are all possible configurations customers might be interested in trying". It's the same reasoning as when you buy a toaster, the manual doesn’t explicitly say, ‘Do not submerge this in a bathtub while making toast.' They don't have to tell you every way that won't work, they are telling you how to get it to work.

Instead of continuing on with how you think it should work, I challenge you to either (a) set it up as FURRYe38 suggested, if you really want to get it to work and not just have an argument. Or, (b) can you find one reputable article anywhere on the internet that states your configuration (Vendor A router -> unmanaged switch -> Vendor B AP, Vendor B satellites, with vendor B equipment using ethernet backhaul) will work? I have not found one anywhere and I have looked a lot. I have found several articles saying mixing and matching with ethernet backhaul won't work.

Without additional data, if you just keep insisting that what you want to do should work, I don't think anyone can help you - not even Netgear.