AT&T Wifi Calling

[WPJoe]

Hi - I have seen a number of threads on this topic and was hoping there was some resolution.

We are an AT&T household and are users of the Wifi Calling feature.

We have a single Orbi router, with no satellites.

We are experiencing an issue where the Wifi Calling works well around some of the house, but when we move into our kitchen it suddenly drops and people cant really hear us.  It seems to happen on my wife's computer as well, where its like we are losing connection and thn reconnecting.

The reception seems strong there in terms of bars (although it is further from the router and through a plaster wall) but something seems to be triggering some kind of instability in the Wifi connection.

I went into advanced features - we dont have Fast Roaming checked (we dont have satellites so I dont know if thats relevant) and I was wondering if there are other optimal settings people have found that will solve this issue?

Thanks

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

What mode is the Verizon router configured for? Router or Bridge mode? IF in router mode, This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop 

[FURRYe38]

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only by unchecking the box. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update? 

[WPJoe]

Thanks for the reply.

I am on 2.5.1.8

The Router it is plugged into is a Verizon FIOS Quantum router.

I will try the following and report back:

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only by unchecking the box. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Is it important to do a full factory reset?

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

What mode is the Verizon router configured for? Router or Bridge mode? IF in router mode, This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop 

[WPJoe]

Thank you I will look into this as well.

I read about this when I first got the Orbi.  I had Orbi Tech Support walk me through the setup and I think instead of disabling the Verizon router they had me rename the WIFI on that one to XXX-OLD and then name the Orbi WIFI to the name I had been using, so that my devices would connect to the Orbi.  Then they had me REMOVE the Old Wifi connections from my devices.

Do you thinik this is not effective? 

[FURRYe38]

Did they turn OFF the wifi radios on the ISP Modem? 

They also need to either bridge the modem or use the modems DMZ for the Orbi RBR...

[WPJoe]

I dont think they disabled anything as I can still see the OLD Wifi as options to connect to from my devices.

Strange and frustrating that they wouldnt have guided me to do that - especially since I specifically asked!

EDIT - logging into my Verizon router, under 2.4 and 5 GHz the "Off" button is ticked.  That said, my devices all still see the OLD SSIDs and can connect to them and use them for Wifi so they dont seem to be off?

As far as "They also need to either bridge the modem or use the modems DMZ for the Orbi RBR..." - Im not sure what this means but I will check the instructions you posted.  Im not tht familiar with the terms and it sounded complicated but I will try my best to follow them...any good beginner step by step posts on this?

[FURRYe38]

The ISP need to disable the wifi radios on the ISP Modem. ANd or Bridge the modem as mentioned in option #1. If it can't be bridged, then they can help you with Option #2 or to make this simpler for you, run Orbi in AP mode as seen in option #3. Wifi radios on the modem need to be turned OFF. Probably causing extra noise while the Orbi is working which isn't needed. 

This is not a FW issue. v2.5.1.8 works well and is stable for me and others. 

[Retired_Member]

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@WPJoe wrote:

Thanks for the reply.

I am on 2.5.1.8

The Router it is plugged into is a Verizon FIOS Quantum router.

I will try the following and report back:

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only by unchecking the box. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

Is it important to do a full factory reset?

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2.5.1.8 is your problem....get rid of it

[CrimpOn]

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@WPJoe wrote:

We are experiencing an issue where the Wifi Calling works well around some of the house, but when we move into our kitchen it suddenly drops and people cant really hear us.  It seems to happen on my wife's computer as well, where its like we are losing connection and thn reconnecting.

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Does going into the kitchen affect any other WiFi activity?  (streaming video, for example)  In addition to a plaster wall, kitchens are loaded with large metal objects that can block WiFi signals.  Is it "everywhere" in the kitchen, or only in certain parts of the kitchen?

[WPJoe]

My wife it seems like when she moves into the kitchen with her laptop it seems like the WIFI is momentarily disconnecting and then reconnecting....

[CrimpOn]

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@WPJoe wrote:

My wife it seems like when she moves into the kitchen with her laptop it seems like the WIFI is momentarily disconnecting and then reconnecting....

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My investigation would focus on these areas:

• Does the problem appear when the laptop goes into the "shadow" of a large metal appliance (refrigerator, wall oven, etc. is directly in the path between the laptop and Orbi)?
• Does the laptop "change WiFi bands" when this happens?
  Looking at the Orbi web interface or Orbi "app", does the laptop connection change from 5G to 2.4G?
  Bear in mind that the Attached Devices status does not update instantly.
  My experience is that it can take 15-20 seconds for a change in status to show up.
• What happens to something like video streaming?
  Is there a reproducable pattern.  i.e. YouTube stutters or stops when I get to this part of the kitchen?
• I use Android phones, so I have access to many WiFi "analyzer" apps that show the actual signal strength, updated as often as every second.  Would be interesting to have such an app open and walk around observing how the signal strength changes.

Or, it could be that AT&T WiFi calliing doesn't like kitchens?  (nah)

[WPJoe]

Two Questions:

1- I am reviewing your suggestion to run the Orbi in AP mode (right now its in router mode).

Is there any downside to doing this?

2- - I have read that sometimes having separate 2.4 and 5 SSIDs can cause interference and stuttering connections.  Is there any real downside to just showing the 2.4 SSID?

[FURRYe38]

Would be worth trying. Just be sure that the ISP modems WiFi is fully disabled there. 

You won't have control features anymore when in AP mode. This is expected for AP mode. 

https://kb.netgear.com/26765/Disabled-Features-on-the-Router-when-set-to-AP-Mode

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@WPJoe wrote:

I am reviewing your suggestion to run the Orbi in AP mode (right now its in router mode).

Is there any downside to doing this?

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[CrimpOn]

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@WPJoe wrote:

I am reviewing your suggestion to run the Orbi in AP mode (right now its in router mode).

Is there any downside to doing this?

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While I do not think the Orbi "mode" has anything to do with WiFi Calling, it is generally a better practice to have only one "router".  Thousands of Orbi customers probably have their systems installed behind an ISP router and have never noticed any problem.  I, myself, ran my Orbi behind a Spectrum router for over a year, UNTIL.... one day I wanted to set up VPN so I could reach my Orbi remotely and it wouldn't work.  There are a bunch of applications that simply fail when there are two routers.  Google "Double NAT" for more information.

"What is the downside?"

• If you have spent a lot of time & energy configuring the Orbi system, you will lose all that when the Orbi is in AP mode, and have to recreate it on the vendor router..
  Things like assigning IP addresses to specific devices.
  Setting the DHCP range of IP addresses.
  Configuring DNS servers.
• Features like Disney Circle and Armor will not work in AP mode.

I have seen a "list" somewhere, but do not remember where.

[Jetdrive]

Another thing to consider is the phone will turn off wifi calling if the cellular signal strength is above a certain level. That would explain why wifi calling is working in some parts of the house and not others. It could be you are on the threshold of the lowered cellular signal that triggers wifi calling.

[FURRYe38]

Let us know if any of this is helping. 

[WPJoe]

Thank you for all the input.

I am working on trying these things and will report back.

[WPJoe]

OK I have successfully turned off the Verizon router from broadcasting its SSIDs on either channel.

I have not done the other bridge steps yet - I am wondering how necessary this is?  My Orbi is working fine as a router for all of my devices and they arent having trouble connecting to the Orbi and getting fast WIFI.  So having now disabled fully the other SSIDs, are these other bride steps likely to be helpful?

I am reluctant to do them if they arent likely to help with the WIFI Calling issue since I have read about other problems with things like the Set Top Boxes in the network not getting on screen giudes, etc.  And since that is currently all working I didnt want to mess with it unless its likely to be part of causing the problem?

[WPJoe]

@CrimpOn Thanks for your advice.  I am trying to troubleshoot this.

When I go into my kitchen with the WiFi Analyzer App running it seems like the signal strength is still good (in the green zone).

I did notice that for some reason when I am in this app trying to chck signal strength, when it asks me to "Select AP" it lists 4 times my SSID that I am using.  And maybe related, when I try to select my SSID on my computer from the list of available wif.  Not sure where the "4" came from or why its there...I guess it corresponds to the fact that I see 4 different times my AP name in the Wifi ANalyzer app?

How would I use this to try and do the troubleshooting you suggested about whether the phone is jumping channels when near the large appliances?

I have also checked with the Orbi App as you suggested.

Both my phone and my wife's phone show as connected to 5GHz when in the kitchen near appliances, etc.  I have full WIFI bars on my Android although she is not getting great coverage on her IPhone in terms of the WIFI bars (only 1-2 showing).

Thanks

[CrimpOn]

Yes, the WiFi Analyzer will recognize every Orbi radio.  With one router and one satellite, that should be two 2.4G radios and two 5G radios.  Plus, there will be some signals with "Unknown" for the SSID, which are the Orbi backhaul signals, usually in the 5G spectrum about channel 155, plus one "Unknown" 2.4G signal which is a backup Orbi backhaul signal.

If the device changes from 5G to 2.4G or from router to satellite, that change should show up in the "Attached Devices" web page (or on the Orbi app), but not immediately.  When I have the Attached Devices page up, it "refreshes" at regular intervals, and sometimes it takes more than one refresh before a change like this shows up.

I appreciate also the comment about the phone recognizing that the cell signal was good enough to switch from WiFi calling to LTE (or not).  Obviously, a laptop is not going to do that.  I know that some time ago, I was regularly annoyed when I would park my car somewhere, open my cell phone, and have "no internet" because a nearby business had a WiFi signal and my phone wanted to switch to it and dropped my LTE connection for data.  My current phone doesn't seem to do this, and I am SO glad.

[WPJoe]

I tried this both with WIFI Calling on any my phone also able to access LTE, and in Airplane mode where it can only use WIFI Calling.  It was definitely no better in Airplane, so I dont think it has anything to do with the phone switching between WIFI Calling and LTE.

So I think its back to focusing on why the quality degrades in that room given my Orbi settings, especially since I see full bars.

As I mentioned, both devices seem to be on 5Ghz in that room which I am surprised.  Given that its further and has obstructions, based on what I have read they should perform better on 2.4 GHz there. 

Is it possible that the fact they arent on 2.4 might be causing some of these issues?  Is there any way to make sure they default to 2.4 so I can check?

[CrimpOn]

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@WPJoe wrote:

Is it possible that the fact they arent on 2.4 might be causing some of these issues?  Is there any way to make sure they default to 2.4 so I can check?

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You cannot force a device to go to 2.4G, and I do not see how that would make any difference.  If the phone seems to "drop" and then reconnect to the same Orbi, then you may have to inch patiently across the kitchen, looking for the exact spot where this happens.  As long as this experiment is providing stimulation while you "shelter in place", that's all I can suggest.  Or, stay out of the kitchen.

[WPJoe]

Hahaha understood thanks.

One last question - I am confused by what I am seeing.

My wife's iphone shows on the Orbi App under Device Manager as having low WIFI bars even though her phone shows high WIFI bars.

In fact, when I put her phone in airplane mode completely and turn the Wifi Off, the Orbi Device Manager app is still showing her phone as connected with low WIFI.  I waited for several minutes to allow refresh and it never disappeared from the list or showed different bar coverage.  Is that potentially an issue?

[CrimpOn]

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@WPJoe wrote:

In fact, when I put her phone in airplane mode completely and turn the Wifi Off, the Orbi Device Manager app is still showing her phone as connected with low WIFI.  I waited for several minutes to allow refresh and it never disappeared from the list or showed different bar coverage.  Is that potentially an issue?

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The Orbi "app" remains sort of mystery to me, as are "Bars".  Probably a topic for the forum devoted entirely to the Orbi app:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-App/bd-p/en-home-orbi-app 

Ordinarily, I would suggest trying to "Ping" the phone from some other device.  But, I just tried my wife's iPhone and iPad and neither respond to ping.  I do not know if they have to be "open" to respond, or if they simply do not allow ping at all.