Absurdly slow speeds from outbuilding Satellite

[gawalla]

Hello

I am hoping to get some help on bad speeds and dropped coverages.  I've recently moved into a house with an outbuilding pool house about 150' away.  Internet is FiOS and of course, it comes into the worst spot possible - the garage at the far end of the house.  Everything is running the most updated firmware.

I have slowly and steadily been experimenting with placement of satellites (my router is connected to my FiOS modem/router in the garage), and now have one upstairs, one on the main level (same level as garage, about 50' away) and an outdoor orbi outside the walk-out basement on the complete other side of the house from the garage.

I also have a satellite in the pool house, which is connected via ethernet cable directly from the router.

Problem is, I have very inconsistent speeds and lots of dropped connections.  I think I've gotten it more reliable in the past couple of days by reading posts about settings changes in the Advanced Setup menu, but still can't get the pool house satellite to be consistently above 2-3 Mbps (lots of times, it's <1.0 - not kidding) and the interior (main house) satellites are typically running about 50-60 Mbps,  despite a 200 service from FiOS.

What can I do to improve this?  I know I'm stretching past the # of satellites and they are probably a bit farther apart than they should be, but is there anything I can do to improve this?  I want to be able to stream my Sonos and stream my RokuTV, neither of which is possible in the current situation.

Thanks in advance!!

[CrimpOn]

An Orbi satellite connected directly to the router with ethernet cable should provide the same performance level as the Orbi router.

When you look at the Orbi web interface "Attached Devices", what does it show for the pool house satellite?

(how is it connected?)

[gawalla]

That’s the weird thing - it shows up with a solid line/wired and is rated as “good” On the web interface and with a green indicator in the app.

From appearances it should be functioning.

Overall there seems to be an incredible diminution of speeds on the Orbi WiFi - even the router shows no more than 50-60, sometimes a spike to 100, speeds while plugged directly into the FiOS router. And the pool house is another order of magnitude below everything else.

[plemans]

many fios ont's have an integrated router. 

have you seen this article?

https://kb.netgear.com/23977/Will-my-NETGEAR-router-work-with-Verizon-FiOS

If you have, how do you have the fios router and the orbi router configured?

[gawalla]

Yes - that’s exactly what I have - the FiOS WiFi has been disabled and Orbi is running in AP mode

[plemans]

What firmware is on the orbi router and what about the satellites?

If the orbi is in AP mode, the verizon device is controlling the router functions. 

Have you tried the orbi in route rmode with it placed in the verizon router dmz? or the verizon device in passthrough mode? 

[CrimpOn]

What "tools" are available to help diagnose the situation?

• I am assuming that speed is being measured by using one of the "SpeedTest" web sites on a cell phone, tablet, or laptop, correct?
• Are there laptops with ethernet ports that can be used to help diagnose the situation?
• Can you "telnet" into the Orbi?

Does the attached diagram remotely resenble the situation?

All three satellites report a "Good" connection to the router?

(two over WiFi and one wired.  ordinarily a 50ft distance to a satellite would be considered "far", but if the Orbi reports "Good" that would seem to mean that it is "close enough".)

The Pool House satellite is connected directly to one of the Orbi LAN ports (not to a switch).

On the Orbi web interface, the Advanced Tab, clicking on the box "Show Statistics" beings up a display like the attachment.

Does it show the WAN link to Fios as 1000 full and the LAN link to the satellite as 1000 full?

[CrimpOn]

One of the frustrating parts of a user forum is when participants are located "all over the world" and conversations get spread out over days as people "come and go".  Please feel free to ignore this post if it is not helpful.

One of my basic tools for documenting my network performance is a free tool called "iPerf", which is available for every major operating system.(Windows, MacOS, Android, AppleOS, and nearly every flavor of Linux)  The way it works is (a) one computer is set up to run iPerf as a "server" and listen for a client to connect.  Another computer runs iPerf as a "client" and attempts to transfer as much data as possible to the server while the server transfers data back.

The latest version of iPerf3 can be downloaded from: https://iperf.fr/en/iperf-download.php .  Each operating system is bit different as far as how to set up iPerf3, especially when it comes to "opening the firewall" to let the server listen.

As an example, I have iPerf3 on my desktop (192.168.1.2) which is connected directly to the Orbi RBR50 router acting as a server.  iPerf3 is also loaded on a Lenovo laptop.  Open a command line window and enter:

iperf3 -c 192.168.1.2 -t 10 -i 1

(Run iPerf3 as a "client" connecting to an iPerf3 "server" located at 192.168.1.2.  Send 10 times, waiting 1 second between sends.)

Here are the results:

Connecting to host 192.168.1.2, port 5201
[ 4] local 192.168.1.21 port 50696 connected to 192.168.1.2 port 5201 [ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 4] 0.00-1.00 sec 111 MBytes 934 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 1.00-2.00 sec 109 MBytes 915 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 2.00-3.00 sec 111 MBytes 928 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 3.00-4.00 sec 110 MBytes 922 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 4.00-5.00 sec 113 MBytes 946 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 5.00-6.00 sec 113 MBytes 948 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 6.00-7.00 sec 113 MBytes 948 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 7.00-8.00 sec 112 MBytes 939 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 8.00-9.00 sec 113 MBytes 946 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 9.00-10.00 sec 112 MBytes 943 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.09 GBytes 937 Mbits/sec sender
[ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 1.09 GBytes 937 Mbits/sec receiver

iperf Done.

Both computers are connected over gigabiti ethernet.  There is some overhead, so the maximum transmission is about 937Mbits/sec.  Ethernet is a "full duplex" medium, which means that traffic flows both directions at the same time.

Change the laptop to a WiFi connection to the Orbi router and repeat.  This is the result:

Connecting to host 192.168.1.2, port 5201
[ 4] local 192.168.1.22 port 50887 connected to 192.168.1.2 port 5201
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 4] 0.00-1.00 sec 27.5 MBytes 230 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 1.00-2.00 sec 32.5 MBytes 272 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 2.00-3.01 sec 34.9 MBytes 292 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 3.01-4.00 sec 33.8 MBytes 284 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 4.00-5.00 sec 29.8 MBytes 250 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 5.00-6.00 sec 28.5 MBytes 239 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 6.00-7.01 sec 26.6 MBytes 223 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 7.01-8.00 sec 26.9 MBytes 226 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 8.00-9.00 sec 25.8 MBytes 217 Mbits/sec
[ 4] 9.00-10.00 sec 28.5 MBytes 238 Mbits/sec
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth
[ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 295 MBytes 247 Mbits/sec sender
[ 4] 0.00-10.00 sec 295 MBytes 247 Mbits/sec receiver

iperf Done.

The laptop is connected to Orbi's 5G WiFi and Orbi reports a "Link Rate" of 866Mbit/sec, which is the maximum possible.  Not quite 1 gigabit, but close.  HOWEVER, WiFi is a "half duplex" medium.  Only one radio can transmit at any given time and there is significantly more overhead in WiFi than there is for ethernet.  So, I was able to push 247 Mbit/sec in each direction, for a total of just under 500Mbit/sec in total.  Naturally, if the server were not sending back data at the same time, I might be able to get 500Mbit/sec in one direction as long as no other device was using WiFi at all.

Sorry for the long explanation.  So, what good is this tool?

My proposal would be to set up similar experiments and record the results.

Two computers both attached to Orbi router LAN ports should generate about 937Mbit/sec in both directions.

One computer on the router LAN and another computer attached directly to that ethernet cable to the pool house should also generate 937Mbit/sec.  If it does not, the ethernet cable is suspect.

If it does, then connect the Orbi satellite in the pool house to the ethernet cable and hook the computer to a LAN port on the satellite. My Orbi satellite is WiFi connected, so I cannot report what value to expect.

Similar experiments can be done with the other two Orbi satellites.

[gawalla]

I have not yet tried to use the Orbi as the router - I had previously used VZ parental controls so I needed that to be the router.  Now, I could switch it to the opposite way - are you suggesting there could/would be a performance increase as a result?  Not sure I completely understand the difference between the two (I know the router difference, but not the performance difference)

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@plemans wrote:

What firmware is on the orbi router and what about the satellites?

If the orbi is in AP mode, the verizon device is controlling the router functions. 

Have you tried the orbi in route rmode with it placed in the verizon router dmz? or the verizon device in passthrough mode? 

[gawalla]

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• yes, speed is being measured by SpeedTest, both phone app and computer/browser test
• unfortunately, no, we are a house of MacBook Air laptops
• I have seen reference to telnet on other posts but understand that with Mavericks OS that option is no longer accessible?  
• I don't see a diagram attached for your network but all my satellites report as "good" and "5G"
• attached is my "show statistics" box
• yes, the pool house satellite is connected via an underground ethernet cable directly to the orbi router 

@CrimpOn wrote:

What "tools" are available to help diagnose the situation?

• I am assuming that speed is being measured by using one of the "SpeedTest" web sites on a cell phone, tablet, or laptop, correct?
• Are there laptops with ethernet ports that can be used to help diagnose the situation?
• Can you "telnet" into the Orbi?

Does the attached diagram remotely resenble the situation?

All three satellites report a "Good" connection to the router?

(two over WiFi and one wired.  ordinarily a 50ft distance to a satellite would be considered "far", but if the Orbi reports "Good" that would seem to mean that it is "close enough".)

The Pool House satellite is connected directly to one of the Orbi LAN ports (not to a switch).

On the Orbi web interface, the Advanced Tab, clicking on the box "Show Statistics" beings up a display like the attachment.

Does it show the WAN link to Fios as 1000 full and the LAN link to the satellite as 1000 full?

---

[plemans]

looks like the pool house is only connect at 10m. 

Any way to test the cable? How far did you run it? 

you can check the satellite by moving it next to the router and connecting with a short 6ft cable. Then recheck speeds and the statistics. 

If that works fine, that'd kind of point to that cable. 

[gawalla]

I think that actually is the problem.  It's probably run 200' underground (by previous owner) and it's only Cat5e cable.  Now I have to figure out how to pull cable through a conduit that I have no idea where it runs.

I also figured out the "capping" of speeds that I was having on the house wifi - it was related to the RouterLimits parental controls device I had plugged in to manage time limits for my kids (that's what the 100M LAN-3 was in that screenshot I shared).  Unplugging that gives me 200-400 speeds consistently.  Now I think I need to change the Orbi to router mode so that I can use those parental controls?  But as I recall, it was not very good before - hence the RouterLimits purchase - and didn't allow for customization of different days/times/devices.  Maybe that has changed in the last couple of years?

Next problem is to figure out why this connection drops so frequently - just this morning as I have been staying home frmo work to test it, it's probably dropped 15 times, in like 45-60 minutes.  Should I start a new thread on that?  Or is it okay to continue with this one?

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@plemans wrote:

looks like the pool house is only connect at 10m. 

Any way to test the cable? How far did you run it? 

you can check the satellite by moving it next to the router and connecting with a short 6ft cable. Then recheck speeds and the statistics. 

If that works fine, that'd kind of point to that cable. 

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[CrimpOn]

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@gawalla wrote:

I think that actually is the problem.  It's probably run 200' underground (by previous owner) and it's only Cat5e cable.  Now I have to figure out how to pull cable through a conduit that I have no idea where it runs.

---

---

Cat5e cable supports 1000mb connections up to 300ft.  It might be a simple matter of reterminating the jacks.  ("Simple" as in having the proper tools and skill.  Once you've done 100, it becomes really easy.)  The correct way to run cable is to terminate it at each end in a jack on the wall so that ethernet patch cables can be plugged into the jack to connect devices.  Sometimes, people say, "what the hell",  put an ethernet plug on the end of the cable, and "done".  The jack or plug does not have to be Cat5e. It can be Cat6 if that is more convenient to purchase or install.

Of course, if the cable was damaged (kinked, stretched) then it has to be replaced.  If the conduit path is not obvious, there are "wire tracing" tools that can be rented.  You have probably seen workers out marking utility lines when someone called "Dig Alert" (or the equivalent) prior to digging.  They attach a tone generator to the wire (water conduit, gas line, etc.) and then trace the signal with a wand while marking the path with spray paint.  (For years and years, I thought it bizzare that they tried to demonstrate patriotism by marking "USA" in white paint where they intended to excavate.  When someone told me, "That stands for Underground Service Alert", I smugly said, "Sure, I knew that." - NOT.)

[plemans]

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@gawalla wrote:

I think that actually is the problem.  It's probably run 200' underground (by previous owner) and it's only Cat5e cable.  Now I have to figure out how to pull cable through a conduit that I have no idea where it runs..  I probably wouldn't restring it. I'd check it first with a cable test and possible replace the ends. Unless somthing has hit that conduit underground, its usually the ends that you see the issue on. And if something did hit it underground, it'll be a challenge to pull new cable through anyway. 

I also figured out the "capping" of speeds that I was having on the house wifi - it was related to the RouterLimits parental controls device I had plugged in to manage time limits for my kids (that's what the 100M LAN-3 was in that screenshot I shared).  Unplugging that gives me 200-400 speeds consistently.  Now I think I need to change the Orbi to router mode so that I can use those parental controls?  But as I recall, it was not very good before - hence the RouterLimits purchase - and didn't allow for customization of different days/times/devices.  Maybe that has changed in the last couple of years?----No idea. I tried it out but  my kids aren't old enough yet for me to need it. 

Next problem is to figure out why this connection drops so frequently - just this morning as I have been staying home frmo work to test it, it's probably dropped 15 times, in like 45-60 minutes.  Should I start a new thread on that?  Or is it okay to continue with this one?  fine to continue here.  

What I'd focus on? 

1. get the orbi router up and running solid by itself. Get your router mode vs access point mode figured out. I wouldn't even introduce the satellites. Make sure the router is stable and running how you want it. 

2. Then introduce the satellites. I'd probably leave the one in the pool house either off or disable daisy chain so devices aren't connecting to it. 

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@plemans wrote:

looks like the pool house is only connect at 10m. 

Any way to test the cable? How far did you run it? 

you can check the satellite by moving it next to the router and connecting with a short 6ft cable. Then recheck speeds and the statistics. 

If that works fine, that'd kind of point to that cable. 

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[FURRYe38]

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/Cat7-cables-make-a-difference/m-p/1924246/highlight/true#M4...