Reply

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

turnerm05
Luminary

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@MikeT57 wrote:

FWIW...  I currently have a LinkSys WRT3200AC tri band which is experiencing exactly the same issues with Android as you folks

here are.  They actually had a nasty firmware / router controller chipset issue whereby a TON of users (myself included) are receiving

replacement routers free of charge... I was actually considering dumping LinkSys for an Orbi but when I read this about the Android

issues here as well  I'm thinking maybe its an Android issue and not so much a router issue....  just thought I would throw my 2 cents in

 

what do you think  would an Orbi work ok with latest Android?..

 

 

Mike


Interesting to hear that other routers are having similar issues.  But unlike Netgear, at least Linksys is owning up to it and doing the right thing.

 

But to answer your question - the answer is no.  That's the exact issue - using Orbi's most recent firmware AND using the latest Android OS is what is causing the issue.

 

Message 101 of 222
MikeT57
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

Ha... you're right.. I asked a question I already pretty much had the answer to..... yeah now I am thinking this is NOT a router issue

but an Android issue... my Galaxy S8 and  Nexus Tablet both knock my router (Linksys) offline when I connect .. my wife's iPhone8

has no issues whatsoever.... 

 

Message 102 of 222
MikeT57
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

FWIW  I currently have a Linksys WRT3200 tri band which is experieincing the exact issues you guys are regarding Latest

Android...  my Samsung S8 ,  Nexus tablets knock my Linksys offline when connecting then I experience multiple disconnects

requiring re-boots...  my wife has an Apple IPhone 8 and it has no issues connecting nor does any of my Windows PC's..

 

me thinks this is an Android issue, not a router issue... 

Message 103 of 222
guzzijason
Apprentice

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@MikeT57 wrote:

FWIW...  I currently have a LinkSys WRT3200AC tri band which is experiencing exactly the same issues with Android as you folks here are.  They actually had a nasty firmware / router controller chipset issue whereby a TON of users (myself included) are receiving

replacement routers free of charge...


You actually bring up a good point - this could very well be a physical hardware problem, and not simply software (although, the WRT3200AC and Orbi use different chipsets...)

Message 104 of 222
MikeT57
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

yeah... the LinkSys router uses a Marvell chipset as I  believe the controller chip that switches between 2.4 and 5ghz bands... and from what

I read on the LinkSys forums Marvell did not release the source code to Linksys so that is giving them kittens.  But I think the bigger issue

is Android update .....  2 different manufacturers suffering the same issues regarding Android device connectivity?... well I think we know

the common denominator now....  as mentioned earlier my wife's iPhone and our Windows PC's were not experiencing problems, but my

wireless HP Laserjet was disconnecting ....... I believe peripherals use the 2.4 ghz band...

 

Very frustrating indeed, so to all you NetGear guys and gals,  you are not alone ......... cheers

 

Mike in N.E. Ohio

Message 105 of 222
turnerm05
Luminary

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

At least Linksys is doing something about it. Meanwhile Netgear won't even aknowledged the issue.

But even if Android is partially responsible it's still ultimately the router's fault. It's like when a car rear ends another car, it's always the fault of the car in the back.
Message 106 of 222
Jramlow
Tutor

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

Like many others, I've taken the jump away from the Orbi and just installed an eero system. So far, things are looking good. I've re-enabled the WiFi on all of our Samsung S7's and so far no reboots. It's early and the system has only been online for a few hours now so to be fair I will reserve final judgement. I went the route of one eero and two beacons. My coverage is better than it was with the orbi but that may be in part to the fact I have 3 units instead of just the 2 orbi units. I'm currently running approximately 40 wireless devices of which I have about a dozen IP cameras (over half are HD). 

 

To get past a few of the "missing" features, I picked up a cheap Raspberry PI and loaded the NoIP client so I can update my dynamic dns host, I've loaded PIVPN which is running openvpn and this is working perfectly fine. I expected as much since the orbi runs openvpn as well. Lastly, since I already have the PI, I figured I would load PI-Hole. I actually had this working on the orbi...sort of. Because of the way the orbi handles DNS, all of the logging in PI-Hole showed as coming from the orbi router IP. With this hooked up to the eero my logging is working as it should be, idenifying the traffic associated to each IP address. 

 

Lastly, I'm not sure if it was a firmware issue or what however about a month ago I ran into problems with one of my Foscam cameras where it just would not work on the orbi wifi. I figured this was problem with the Foscam. For the fun of it, I plugged it in after I installed the eero and the camera appears to be working fine. I unplugged, moved and replugged about 5 times to test it out and it came back online each time. We'll see if it remains working. 

 

I thought I would just toss this info out in case anyone was on the fence like I was. Now I just need to find a buyer for the orbi.

 

Jeff

Message 107 of 222
rhester72
Virtuoso

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

So here's an interesting datapoint - it has not a damned thing to do with wireless.

 

Steps to reproduce:

 

- Hook up any access point you like (I chose a Google OnHub, take your pick) to your main Orbi set to AP/bridged mode with a unique SSID

- Connect your "problem" phone to the new AP's SSID

- Watch as the Orbi reboots, even though there's no wireless traffic involving your phone

 

Thus, we can come to some conclusions:

 

- It's not the wireless driver

- It IS something in kernel-land, hence the panic, likely tied to the TCP/IP stack proper

- It has absolutely nothing to do with mesh, it's "just" a kernel bug in the specific kernel Netgear is using on Orbi

 

Whatever the kernel bug is, it's present on both 2.0 and 2.1 beyond any doubt.

 

Hope this helps (Netgear),

 

Rodney

 

Message 108 of 222
turnerm05
Luminary

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@rhester72 wrote:

So here's an interesting datapoint - it has not a damned thing to do with wireless.

 

Steps to reproduce:

 

- Hook up any access point you like (I chose a Google OnHub, take your pick) to your main Orbi set to AP/bridged mode with a unique SSID

- Connect your "problem" phone to the new AP's SSID

- Watch as the Orbi reboots, even though there's no wireless traffic involving your phone

 

Thus, we can come to some conclusions:

 

- It's not the wireless driver

- It IS something in kernel-land, hence the panic, likely tied to the TCP/IP stack proper

- It has absolutely nothing to do with mesh, it's "just" a kernel bug in the specific kernel Netgear is using on Orbi

 

Whatever the kernel bug is, it's present on both 2.0 and 2.1 beyond any doubt.

 

Hope this helps (Netgear),

 

Rodney

 


Great post Rodney.  Very insightful.  I'm guessing that Netgear KNOWS this is a hardware issue and that's exactly why they are being quiet.  I think they are hoping that the next Android point release will resolve this issue and their damage will be contained.  It's BS.  They need to come forward with an aknowledgement and a solution.  Hell, even if they'd just say that they are aware of the issue and they think the next Andriod release will solve it that would give people hope.  I might have even stayed with Orbi if I knew that forgetting my home network on my Pixel would solve it for some temporary period of time.  But with no end in sight, I bailed.  Their actions are bordering on criminal.  I paid good money for something that doesn't work.

Message 109 of 222
guzzijason
Apprentice

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@rhester72 wrote:

So here's an interesting datapoint - it has not a damned thing to do with wireless.

 <snip>

Good stuff. Is there any way to get a packet capture from the OnHub by any chance? Would be interesting to see what sort of traffic is going over the link when the Orbi router decides to panic. Also, I'm curious of what would happen if you connected the OnHub to an Orbi satellite rather than direct to the main router - would the satellite panic, or just the router, or both? If just the router dies, it should be possible to get a packet capture from the satellite.

I wish I had an environment where I could replicate this myself... I hate trying to troubleshoot vicariously through others Smiley Happy At any rate, good job... it is an interesting data point for sure.

Message 110 of 222
cjperone100
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

When this happened tp me.  I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp.  it stopped the crashes.

 

not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.

Model: RBR50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Router Only)
Message 111 of 222
rhester72
Virtuoso

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@cjperone100 wrote:

When this happened tp me.  I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp.  it stopped the crashes.

 

not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.


Not sure it would...my Orbi is in bridged mode and thus doesn't answer DHCP requests.

Message 112 of 222
rhester72
Virtuoso

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@guzzijason wrote:

@rhester72 wrote:

So here's an interesting datapoint - it has not a damned thing to do with wireless.

 <snip>

Good stuff. Is there any way to get a packet capture from the OnHub by any chance? Would be interesting to see what sort of traffic is going over the link when the Orbi router decides to panic. Also, I'm curious of what would happen if you connected the OnHub to an Orbi satellite rather than direct to the main router - would the satellite panic, or just the router, or both? If just the router dies, it should be possible to get a packet capture from the satellite.

I wish I had an environment where I could replicate this myself... I hate trying to troubleshoot vicariously through others Smiley Happy At any rate, good job... it is an interesting data point for sure.


Unfortunately, OnHub doesn't support capture or port spanning, so without a tap (which I don't have in my kitchen *LOL*), no way to capture.

 

Doing the capture from either Orbi device is useless once the panic happens...and the interesting packet is almost certainly the one that will be lost in the panic.

Message 113 of 222
rhester72
Virtuoso

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@rhester72 wrote:

@cjperone100 wrote:

When this happened tp me.  I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp.  it stopped the crashes.

 

not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.


Not sure it would...my Orbi is in bridged mode and thus doesn't answer DHCP requests.


A bit more evidence that it doesn't seem to be DHCP-related...if I put the OnHub on a switch off my (not Orbi) router, even though the broadcast -reaches- Orbi, it doesn't crash...which strongly suggests that the traffic causing the crash is unicast.

Message 114 of 222
matt7277
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

Chimming in here as I am experiencing the same issues. I actually had no idea this was related to the Orbi routers, as many have already stated the idea that a client device can actually cause a stability issue with the wifi infrastructure is incredibly strange. Unfortunately, I didn't come across this post until a few blogs started reporting it and I went through a lengthly debugging effort that killed a ton of time. Rebuilding multiple domain controllers, swapping out switches and firewalls had no effect.

 

If I had to guess, i would probably say that this issue has been going on for the past 30 days or so, and that aligns with the December Security update for both of my android devices listed below (and also the U11 update to Oreo so not sure which is the cause). After reading through this post, I decided to connect my HTC U11 (Running 8.0 Oreo) and Galaxy S7 (Running 7.0) to my Verizon FiOS WiFi gateway rather than the Orbi and the problem stopped immediately. It was pretty easy to tell this fixed things as my home theater system would regularly flash "WiFi Disconnected" and "WiFi Connected" repeatedly while these android devices were connected to the Orbi. Unfortunately/Fortunately if you have Verizon FIOS you are often stuck with their Wifi gateway device and forced to double NAT your prefered device by simply hooking up the WAN Port of the Orbi to the Ethernet of the FIOS Gateway; I usually just disable the WiFi... in this scenario it's actually helpful to have this available for testing.

 

Before switching to the Orbis, I tried out the Linkysys Velop system but found it was also incredibly unstable and the 3 satelites would regularly loose connectivity with the primary router. I've heard that the Velop did not play well with more nodes, adding lag and stability issues after 2 nodes which aligned with my experience. I also didn't like how the Velop lacked OpenVPN, DynamicDNS, didn't have a WebUI for advanced users and it didn't allow you to disable DHCP (on that note, yes my Orbis are configured to disable DHCP). My reasoning for jumping into the mesh networking world to begin with was the ongoing security issues with the Netgear Nighthawk router but at this point it sounds like stability tradeoffs and security problems across the board

 

Message 115 of 222
parostberg
Tutor

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

Try setting static IP for android devices. Has worked for me during the last 24 hours.
Message 116 of 222
turnerm05
Luminary

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

Assigning a static IP address was the first thing I tried. Had zero impact for me. I first thought there was some sort of IP conflict which is why I went to a static address. No dice.
Message 117 of 222
parostberg
Tutor

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

Note, set a static IP on the devices. Not in the Orbi router.
Message 118 of 222
rhester72
Virtuoso

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@rhester72 wrote:

@rhester72 wrote:

@cjperone100 wrote:

When this happened tp me.  I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp.  it stopped the crashes.

 

not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.


Not sure it would...my Orbi is in bridged mode and thus doesn't answer DHCP requests.


A bit more evidence that it doesn't seem to be DHCP-related...if I put the OnHub on a switch off my (not Orbi) router, even though the broadcast -reaches- Orbi, it doesn't crash...which strongly suggests that the traffic causing the crash is unicast.


I stand corrected - just had another crash with OnHub on a switch in parallel with Orbi.  You may very well be right that it does indeed involve DHCP broadcast.

 

Just switched to static on my Pixel 2 XL, will let this bake for a couple of days.

Message 119 of 222
logdump
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

Just want to throw in a "me too" and provide some more data points:

 

1 x RBR50 with 2 x RBS50, all on firmware Rev V2.1.1.16 but I had the same issue with V2.1.1.12 and V2.0.0.74.

 

The RBR50 is in AP mode. Router is Asus RT-AC68U with WiFi switched off and dual stack IPv4 and IPv6.

 

*** I do not have any Pixel device on my network !! ***

Network clients are a wide variety of Android and IOS devices. I can see the RBR50 reboot when a Samsung A7 running Android 7.0 is booted or wakes up.

 

So some data points:

 

- Orbi in AP mode

- Dual Stack IPv4 and IPv6

- Android 7.0 clients (Samsung A7) WILL crash my Orbi, too. For me it is not just Oreo related as claimed here.

- IOS devices, desktops and laptops never cause it

- There is a Chromecast Ultra on the network. Maybe when an Android device with Google Home wakes up and scans for Chromecast it does something ?

- I just replicated it with the Oreo devices (Samsung S8+ and Moto X4) powered off. Toggled off WiFi on a Samsung A7 a bunch of times and eventually the Orbis went to reboot

 

I have like 120 apps installed on these devices so if we all compare who has what apps and find some overlap we could maybe narrow it down and test without these apps installed.

Model: RBR50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Router Only)
Message 120 of 222
logdump
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

turnerm05 wrote:
At least Linksys is doing something about it. Meanwhile Netgear won't even aknowledged the issue.

But even if Android is partially responsible it's still ultimately the router's fault. It's like when a car rear ends another car, it's always the fault of the car in the back.


Did you report it to Netgear and create an actual ticket ? They don't often acknowledge stuff we post here. I am about to create a ticket. Been procrastinating for weeks because I know first level support will be a drag (rather go for a root canal treatment)...

Model: RBR50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Router Only)
Message 121 of 222
logdump
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@cjperone100 wrote:

When this happened tp me.  I changed pixel to static ip address rather than dhcp.  it stopped the crashes.

 

not the most ideal solution but maybe it will help ubtil a true fix.


Out of curiosity, is there IPv6 on your network ?

Message 122 of 222
jasonjason
Guide

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

I have the same Orbi setup and firmware as you, (RBK53 currrently on latest) and also using in AP mode with an Asus RT-AC68U as the router. I'm running Merlin 380.69 on the Asus.

 

I have also seen speculation that this may be caused by Chromecasts and multicast routing causing an overflow in the router and rebooting.

 

To add a few data points:

- I have 2 Pixel 2 XL phones, both on 8.1. This issue did not start until end of November or beginning of December. This is when I updated the first Pixel to 8.1, but also corresponds with adding new Chromecast enabled devices to my network.

- I'm able to experience an almost certain correlation with Pixels waking or joining/leaving the network and when the Orbi reboots.

- I have 2 gen 2 Chromecasts, 1 Chromecast Ultra, 1 Chromecast Audio, 4 Google Homes, and 1 Google Home Mini on the network.

- I've experienced 1-3 days of network stability without knowing why. It's always followed by a return to frequent disconnects. Like others, turning the Pixel wifi off resulted in network stability, until the exact moment I turned it back on and connected to the network. As we're now speculating, this could be due to Chromecast discovery.

 

All I know is that this isn't my problem to solve, so sitting on here and troubleshooting with you folks feels pointless  and frustrating. I'm glad to supply any information or logs that can help solve this, but I'm just going to get progressively more angry as we all bang our heads together and hear nothing from Netgear.

Message 123 of 222
logdump
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi


@jasonjason wrote:

I have the same Orbi setup and firmware as you, (RBK53 currrently on latest) and also using in AP mode with an Asus RT-AC68U as the router. I'm running Merlin 380.69 on the Asus.

 

I have also seen speculation that this may be caused by Chromecasts and multicast routing causing an overflow in the router and rebooting.

 



I have opened a ticket with Netgear now just for statistical tracking. I do not expect the ticket to make it to 3rd level support where it belongs...

 

I used Merlin but currently on a fork of Shibby firmware (kille72 2017.3) but that seems to not be relavent here as the other people are using other routers and have the same problem with Orbi in AP mode and Android devices causing a reboot.

 

My two suspects are IPv6 dual stack, specifically DHCPv6 incompatibilities. Oh wait... Android only does SLAAC so we can forget DHCPv6.

 

And not many people here mentioned IPv6 so I think I am on the wrong track. Something about Chromecast discovery could be feasible. I mainly use Roku so unplugging my Chromecast won't ruin my lifestyle. I will take the Chromecast out of the netork now and put my 12 Android devices into reboot cycle. See if I can make Orbi crash when Android devices wake and NO Chromecast is being discovered.

 

I pray it's something simple like this and not some obcure 3rd party android app some of us have installed.

Message 124 of 222
logdump
Aspirant

Re: Android 8 Crashes Orbi

I just powered off everything.

 

Then booted cable modem. Waited 2 mins. Booted Asus RT-AC68U, waited 2 mins. Booted up Orbi RBK53, waited 5 mins.

Now with the Chromecast Ultra completely out of the picture I cold booted 6 Android devices, waiting a minute inbetween each one, pinging the RBS50 and watching it's indicator light to see if it stays up.

 

The result of this one test:

 

Samsung A7 #1 - Android 7.0, no recent security patches coz... Samsung.... - no crash

Samsung A7 #2 - no crash

Samsung A7 #3 - no crash

Samsung A7 #4 - no crash

iPad Air2 IOS 11.2 (just for the hell of it) - no crash

Samsung S8+ Android 7.0 November 2017 - no crash

Moto X4 Android 7.1.1 November 2017 - no crash

 

I then booted up a bunch of Cisco VOIP phones, Nest and Amazon Alexa products and Arlo Q cameras - no crash.

 

I will now repeat the test with the Chromecast on the network.

 

 

 

 

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 125 of 222
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