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Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

scttq
Guide

Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Hi,

 

I've been using an AC3000 system (w/ 2 satellites) for about 1.5 years, been through some ugly times with constant disconnects but the platform really seems to have improved over the last year.

 

As of this week, I was able to run Cat6 to a switch near my basement satallite (Cat 6 originates from RBR50 and enters a TP-Link TL-SG1016 switch). I went for the wired backhaul with the satallite connecting to the switch and the first day everything seemed great, the second day, my network went bonkers. The wired satalliite wasn't recognized and I was getting crazy lag and disconnects on the rest of my network. Long story short, I hard reset all my network infrastructure; FiOS ONT, FiOS gateway, and Obri router and satallites, also released my FiOS IP lease. After a bunch of time, I've got everything back online without the wired backhaul.

 

Before I attempt putting the basement satallite on the wire again... is anyone successfully using a mixed wired/wireless backhaul setup? If so, any tips on getting it working?

 

Thanks!

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 1 of 26

Accepted Solutions
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

It's been 4 days now and all is still good.

 

To summarize (based on my observations):

  1. I added an AV rack, rack switch and wired backhaul to my basement, previously was on wireless with everything working fine
  2. Day after this new setup, entire network went down
  3. Two seperate issues were discovered:
    1. Four Sonos components were hard wired to the switch, the components don't automatically disable their wifi connection and apparently introduced a network loop
    2. My Sony Android TV when connected over ethernet tends to cause a type of network storm over UDP because of a bug in the Chromecast feature. This was corrected for the wifi adapter but not the ethernet adapter.

I'll report back if any issues come up but as of now, the Orbi seems to be more of a victim of these issues than a cause of the network failure.

View solution in original post

Message 24 of 26

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FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Yes others have reported having mixed backhaul configurations. 

 

Is Daisy check Check marked or un-check on your Orbi router? Daisy Chain should be disabled. Been reports of Daisy Chain working differently on v210 FW. 

 

One reason for your problem after going wired maybe do to your switch your using. Any Managed, Green Technology or Smart switches seem to give problems when in used with Orbi systems. I see yours has Green Tech. 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/switching-requirements-for-ethernet-backhaul/m-p/1653718/highl...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Ready-to-chuck-this-system-through-the-window/m-p/1658470/high...

 

Can you remove the switch temporarily to test to see if this helps clear the problem? 

 

What mode is the Orbi running in? Router or AP mode? 

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP ONT the NG router is connected too? Any built in router here by chance? 


@scttq wrote:

Hi,

 

I've been using an AC3000 system (w/ 2 satellites) for about 1.5 years, been through some ugly times with constant disconnects but the platform really seems to have improved over the last year.

 

As of this week, I was able to run Cat6 to a switch near my basement satallite (Cat 6 originates from RBR50 and enters a TP-Link TL-SG1016 switch). I went for the wired backhaul with the satallite connecting to the switch and the first day everything seemed great, the second day, my network went bonkers. The wired satalliite wasn't recognized and I was getting crazy lag and disconnects on the rest of my network. Long story short, I hard reset all my network infrastructure; FiOS ONT, FiOS gateway, and Obri router and satallites, also released my FiOS IP lease. After a bunch of time, I've got everything back online without the wired backhaul.

 

Before I attempt putting the basement satallite on the wire again... is anyone successfully using a mixed wired/wireless backhaul setup? If so, any tips on getting it working?

 

Thanks!


 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 2 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Good to hear!

 

Orbi is in AP mode, ONT is a fios branded I-211M-L, fios router is the AC1750 (G1100).

 

Daisy Chain was/is enabled, I can disable.

 

I can temporarily go direct to the satelilite and see what happens, the same switch is also feeding the components on an AV rack. I hope it's not the switch as it's brand new, not sure what modern rack mountable switch doesn't have some green.energy efficient/smart tech in it.

 

Would there be a benefit to wiring the satalilite direct to the RBR50 and then runing the switch off the satallite ethernet port?

Message 3 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Try disabling DS and see. 

 

Try direct connecting the satellite and see what happens. 

 

HP and D-Link have some non green tech switches. I think NG might still. I have a HP 1400 series 24 port rack mount. I also use other smaller switches in between as well. There all non green tech. Smiley Very Happy

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 4 of 26
ekhalil
Master

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?


@scttq wrote:

........, the second day, my network went bonkers. The wired satalliite wasn't recognized and I was getting crazy lag and disconnects on the rest of my network. ........


What other wired devices do you have in your network? The disturbance can -as well- come from other wired devices in the network.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK852 AX6000, AP Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBR50 + 4x RBS50, Router Mode, Wireless Ba ckhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 5 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Wired devices:

  • Windows 10 PC
  • Synology NAS
  • Obi200
  • TV running android
  • Xbox 
  • Hue hub
  • Sonos Boost
  • some Sonos components
  • Denon receiver

The Obi200 was a recent add, I do have it connected again now and everything seems good. I am holding off on trying the wired backhaul again until this weekend.

Message 6 of 26
ekhalil
Master

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?


@scttq wrote:

Wired devices:

  • .....
  • Sonos Boost
  • some Sonos components
  • .....

The Obi200 was a recent add, I do have it connected again now and everything seems good. I am holding off on trying the wired backhaul again until this weekend.


I had similar issues as what you described. The issue is -likely- caused by your wired Sonos.

You should not have more than one wired Sonos to Orbi. When you have one Wired Sonos you will start the Sonosnet wifi network and not the Orbi wifi. Wiring another device to Orbi will cause you loops in the wifi network and will cause all types of issues.

Please keep only the Sonos Boost or Connect but disconnect all other speakers.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK852 AX6000, AP Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBR50 + 4x RBS50, Router Mode, Wireless Ba ckhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 7 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Let us know how it goes. If the Switch was a recent add and everything had been working before then, kind of points to the the switch. Do some test with out this this weekend and see. 


@scttq wrote:

Wired devices:

  • Windows 10 PC
  • Synology NAS
  • Obi200
  • TV running android
  • Xbox 
  • Hue hub
  • Sonos Boost
  • some Sonos components
  • Denon receiver

The Obi200 was a recent add, I do have it connected again now and everything seems good. I am holding off on trying the wired backhaul again until this weekend.




My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 8 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Wow, some great input, thank you @FURRYe38 & @ekhalil!

 

I will disable DS, notwork map shows its not being used anyways.

 

And for the Sonos, that is looking super suspicious, I'm seeing something very similar described in this thread - https://en.community.sonos.com/advanced-setups-229000/network-loop-and-broadcast-storms-with-sonos-6...

 

Sonos now provides the ability to disable wifi in the room settings, I'm going to try disabling the wifi on all the hardwired Sonos components except for the Boost.

 

Thank you for the guidance!

Message 9 of 26
ekhalil
Master

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?


@scttq wrote:

......., I'm going to try disabling the wifi on all the hardwired Sonos components except for the Boost.

.......


That will not help, you have to disconnect the wired Sonos devices except one. You can only have one wired Sonos device to Orbi not more.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK852 AX6000, AP Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBR50 + 4x RBS50, Router Mode, Wireless Ba ckhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 10 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Gotcha, that seems odd.

 

The chatter I found on Sonos causing loops seems to point to having both wifi and the ethernet connection enabled, which is the default, you need to manually change it.

 

Is there something about the Orbi system that makes it sensitive to this or just the way it is?

Message 11 of 26
ekhalil
Master

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?


@scttq wrote:

.......

Is there something about the Orbi system that makes it sensitive to this or just the way it is?


No, any other system will not accept this setup. I tried this earlier with my Apple Airport routers and I got similar issues.

Sonosnet (which is created once you wire the first Sonos to Orbi) is a wifi network connecting all Sonos devices to each other, so wiring another or more Sonos is -to simplify- like connecting one computer with two or more Ethernet ports without defining routing rules.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK852 AX6000, AP Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBR50 + 4x RBS50, Router Mode, Wireless Ba ckhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 12 of 26
cscheiene
Star

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?


@ekhalil wrote:

@scttq wrote:

......., I'm going to try disabling the wifi on all the hardwired Sonos components except for the Boost.

.......


That will not help, you have to disconnect the wired Sonos devices except one. You can only have one wired Sonos device to Orbi not more.


I did have network loops when I hardwired multiple Sonos. So I only hardwired one of them, fixed the problem. The disable wifi setting was not available back then. But when they recently added this feature I tried to hardwire some of the Sonos again and disable the wireless radio on those units. It work just fine, both Sonos and the Orbi system

Message 13 of 26
ekhalil
Master

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?


@cscheiene wrote:


I did have network loops when I hardwired multiple Sonos. So I only hardwired one of them, fixed the problem. The disable wifi setting was not available back then. But when they recently added this feature I tried to hardwire some of the Sonos again and disable the wireless radio on those units. It work just fine, both Sonos and the Orbi system


Thanks for the information. May be disabling wifi on the speaker forces it to only use the Orbi network and thus separate it from the Sonos own network!

@scttq plesse try this and see if that helps as a first option.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK852 AX6000, AP Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBR50 + 4x RBS50, Router Mode, Wireless Ba ckhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 14 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Excellent, my plan is to disable daisy-chain and keep the satellites wireless for the next 5-7 days. I still have the switch connected to the RBR50 and have disabled wifi on each hardwired Sonos component except the Boost (the same switch had 4 Sonos components hardwired to it). I'll let this bake in for 5-7 days and see if anything comes up.

 

@cscheiene do you have any of your Sonos components daisy chained or all direct to a port? Sonos Support says daisy chaining is 100% supported, I am currently setup this way 1 level deep.

Message 15 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

UPDATE

 

Found a repeatable issue with the equipment connected to the switch, and this time it isn't Sonos. When both my Denon receiver and Sony TV are plugged into the switch, it goes down. They are connected together via HDMI with the enhanced control options enabled and also both hard wired to the network switch. Interestingly, they previously were both connected to ethernet jacks on the back of my Orbi satallite without issue. I have to assume the TP-Link switch is handling the traffic differently in some way which is causing the switch to go down???

 

 

Message 16 of 26
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Is that a stock ethernet cable or did you custom make it?  I would also test the cable to see if it is configured properly.  You can get a very ncie ethernet cable tester at Lowes or Home Depot for very little.

---------------
My Equipment: Cox Cable (350Mb/35Mb), Orbi AX6000 (RBR850, 3 x RBS850) (2xWired backhaul), NG GS116PP Gigabit Smart Switch, Synology DS1019+ NAS
Message 17 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Can you remove the TP-Link switch from the Orbi network and just test the system with out it connected. I presummed this was a possibility of cause when you first posted about this. As mentioned, some switches with managed features, smart features or green ethernet can cause problems with Orib systems. 

 


@scttq wrote:

UPDATE

 

Found a repeatable issue with the equipment connected to the switch, and this time it isn't Sonos. When both my Denon receiver and Sony TV are plugged into the switch, it goes down. They are connected together via HDMI with the enhanced control options enabled and also both hard wired to the network switch. Interestingly, they previously were both connected to ethernet jacks on the back of my Orbi satallite without issue. I have to assume the TP-Link switch is handling the traffic differently in some way which is causing the switch to go down???

 

 




My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 18 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Got to focus on this a bit this morning.

 

@FURRYe38 - you mentioned the HP ProCurve 1400 switches, I had been running the 8 port version at my wifes work for many years without issue. I just picked up a used 24 port rack mount super cheap, always handy to have an extra good switch.

 

@Chuck_M - This was a cable run through the walls that I made, I have a tester and it tested out good. I decided to redo the plugs anyways since I have some nice proper Cat6 plugs with boots (proper Cat6 RJ45 plugs have the piercing pins at staggered heights). Tested again and everything still looks good.

 

I had left the switch connected last night with the receiver and not the TV, this morning everything still looked good. I swap the reciever out and then connect the TV, minute later the switch drops. I go back and forth and sure enough, it's actually just the TV causing the issue. I have a small Trendnet switch so I swap that in and get the same results. Final test, I take the cable out of the back of the TV, use a coupler with a long cable to another device, no issues. At this point, the TV looks suspect and some online searching shows reports of other folks having issues with Sony Android TVs when using the ethernet port, apparently the issue doesn't occur over wireless. I'm going to try a few different things to get some more data.

 

Interestingly, I didn't have this issue when the TV was formally plugged directly into the Orbi satallite.

Message 19 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

ProCurve are great switches. I bought my 24 port new years ago. ZERO issues. I use a couple of 8 port versions behind it as well. 

 

Sounds like your TP-Link is the issue if you removed it and the system works. I presume it maybe that Green Tech seen on some switches that seems to be the cause. Why Orbi is picky about switches, only the NG engineer can say I guess. We've just found that using switches with out the additional features seem to work best with it.


@scttq wrote:

Got to focus on this a bit this morning.

 

@FURRYe38 - you mentioned the HP ProCurve 1400 switches, I had been running the 8 port version at my wifes work for many years without issue. I just picked up a used 24 port rack mount super cheap, always handy to have an extra good switch.

 

 

Interestingly, I didn't have this issue when the TV was formally plugged directly into the Orbi satallite.


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 20 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Weekend update 1.

 

Sony Android TV is now on wireless, no issues so far. I'm not a huge Sony fan in general and this certainly hasn't changed my opinion. The actual ethernet post is only 10/100 and also prone to broadcast stroms when powering on due to some logic with the Chromecast feature. Seems silly as this was the top of the line 4k Sony when purchased.

 

Sonos units that are hard wired to the switch all have wifi turned off, there is also a Sonos Boost plugged into the RBR50.

 

Original TP-Link switch is still in place.

 

As of this afternoon, I plugged a Satallite into the switch, after removing it in the Orbi admin page. So far so good, will give it a few days before passing final judgement.

Message 21 of 26
ekhalil
Master

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?


@scttq wrote:

Weekend update 1.

 

Sony Android TV is now on wireless, no issues so far. I'm not a huge Sony fan in general and this certainly hasn't changed my opinion. The actual ethernet post is only 10/100 and also prone to broadcast stroms when powering on due to some logic with the Chromecast feature. Seems silly as this was the top of the line 4k Sony when purchased.

 

Sonos units that are hard wired to the switch all have wifi turned off, there is also a Sonos Boost plugged into the RBR50.

 

Original TP-Link switch is still in place.

 

As of this afternoon, I plugged a Satallite into the switch, after removing it in the Orbi admin page. So far so good, will give it a few days before passing final judgement.


Good progress, keep us posted!

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK852 AX6000, AP Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBR50 + 4x RBS50, Router Mode, Wireless Ba ckhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 22 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Let ys know the results and try the incoming switch in place of the TP-Link as well. Just curious to see results of it. 


@scttq wrote:

Weekend update 1.

 

Sony Android TV is now on wireless, no issues so far. I'm not a huge Sony fan in general and this certainly hasn't changed my opinion. The actual ethernet post is only 10/100 and also prone to broadcast stroms when powering on due to some logic with the Chromecast feature. Seems silly as this was the top of the line 4k Sony when purchased.

 

Sonos units that are hard wired to the switch all have wifi turned off, there is also a Sonos Boost plugged into the RBR50.

 

Original TP-Link switch is still in place.

 

As of this afternoon, I plugged a Satallite into the switch, after removing it in the Orbi admin page. So far so good, will give it a few days before passing final judgement.


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 23 of 26
scttq
Guide

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

It's been 4 days now and all is still good.

 

To summarize (based on my observations):

  1. I added an AV rack, rack switch and wired backhaul to my basement, previously was on wireless with everything working fine
  2. Day after this new setup, entire network went down
  3. Two seperate issues were discovered:
    1. Four Sonos components were hard wired to the switch, the components don't automatically disable their wifi connection and apparently introduced a network loop
    2. My Sony Android TV when connected over ethernet tends to cause a type of network storm over UDP because of a bug in the Chromecast feature. This was corrected for the wifi adapter but not the ethernet adapter.

I'll report back if any issues come up but as of now, the Orbi seems to be more of a victim of these issues than a cause of the network failure.

View solution in original post

Message 24 of 26
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Anyone Successfully Using Mixed Wireless and Wired Backhaul?

Nice work Sir. Glad you were able to figure it all out. Thanks for letting us know. 


@scttq wrote:

It's been 4 days now and all is still good.

 

To summarize (based on my observations):

  1. I added an AV rack, rack switch and wired backhaul to my basement, previously was on wireless with everything working fine
  2. Day after this new setup, entire network went down
  3. Two seperate issues were discovered:
    1. Four Sonos components were hard wired to the switch, the components don't automatically disable their wifi connection and apparently introduced a network loop
    2. My Sony Android TV when connected over ethernet tends to cause a type of network storm over UDP because of a bug in the Chromecast feature. This was corrected for the wifi adapter but not the ethernet adapter.

I'll report back if any issues come up but as of now, the Orbi seems to be more of a victim of these issues than a cause of the network failure.


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.223/SRK30 V3.2.33.106)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 25 of 26
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