Ap mode or router orbi rbk50

[Majorninth]

So I unboxed the system plugged it into my wired network and set it up. Software updated to the latest  version. As far as I can tell everything works fine. After viewing this forum I find out the latest software is all buggy and I was supposed to use ap mode. I have left everything as is, but was wondering if I changed it to the recommended setup will I end up with problems everyone else is having? The orbi is plugged into a older netgear wireless router which is still broadcasting wifi and providing DHCP addresses for the network. What problems should I be seeing if I leave my orbi setup in router mode instead of ap? And will I start to have all the problems everyone is complaining about if I put it in ap mode?

[st_shaw]

If you are not having problems with Orbi now, then you shouldn't have prolems changing it to AP mode.

Why are you continuing to use an old router in additon to Orbi?  You can keep it if you want, but if you do you should turn off the WiFi on your old router and use AP mode with Orbi.

To learn about issues with using two routers, google "doube NAT" or search for it on Netgear's forums. It may work OK, but it is not the proper way to operate.

[RobertWycoff]

I have an extensive ethernet network using my Comcast Arris TG1682G Gateway but wifi sucks.  I bought the RBK50 to replace my wifi.  I read where I need to disable wifi in the gateway and also put in bridge mode, but I'm not clear whether I should put the RBK50 in AP mode or not. 

[seurat0109]

Robert,

I have a Comcast gateway and I've had the same problem getting a straight answer on this. I have the router on the gateway set to bridge mode and the Orbi is in router mode.  I have the latest firmware (2.0.0.74).  

I've spoken directly to Netgear support twice trying to find out why my Orbi keeps dropping internet access.  On both occasions they confirmed that my setup is correct and that I should not be in AP mode.  You can find many posts on this forum that contradict that advice, of course. I've considered trying AP mode, but I've seen numerous connection complaints from others who are using AP mode, so I doubt that will solve the issue.  I also haven't been able to find clear directions regarding what the gateway should be set to in order to support AP mode (e.g., IP passthrough?).

I have tried resetting both the Orbi and the satellite, removing the satellite (router only), rebooting the gateway - you name it.  Nada.  Nothing else that support has recommended has improved the situation.  Seeing that internet connectivity is a major issue for a lot of people, it seems that Netgear would post a coherent, comprehensive, updated page on the community to minimize the confusion created by hundreds (thousands?) of people trying to figue this out and throwing out incorrect and/or misleading advice, but I guess that's too much to hope for.  It would also be nice if Netgear provided explicit instructions for setting the Orbi up for those using gateway devices.  Instead they default to the assumption that the user is connecting to a stand alone modem, which is clearly not the case for many people.

By the way, I have seen some comments indicating that the router and satellite should be reset and the firmware update manually.  Again, I doubt that will work and I can't believe that Netgear would expect people to do that.

I've purchased a number of Netgear products over the years, but this has just about done it for me.  I doubt that I'll every use Netgear again.

Wayne

[st_shaw]

If the Arris takes a public IP on the WAN interface and is acting as your router, serving up LAN IP addresses via DHCP, then you should set Orbi into AP mode. This is usually the simplest to setup.

If you already have an extensive Ethernet network that's working, you can leave all existing equipment as it is (except you should disable WiFi on the Arris), and just plug Orbi into the LAN somewhere, and set it up for AP mode.

[seurat0109]

Thanks for the comments.  Following are some additional questions:

1.  Assuming that a Comcast gateway (modem/router combination) is set up as you described in the first paragraph, I would assume the gateway should not be in bridge mode.  Is that correct?

2.  Also, does IP passthrough have anything to do with operating in AP mode?  If so, how is that done?

3.  My understanding is that setting the gateway to non-bridge mode can be accomplished by connecting a laptop directly to the gateway.  Is that correct, or would I have to contact Comcast support?  I'm thinking that Comcast would have to reset the system, but I'm so confused at this point, that I have no idea.

[st_shaw]

1. It depends on what other equipment you have. If you have antoher router on your network, the Arris could be in bridged mode.  If the Arris is the only box, then it cannot be in bridge mode.

2. IP passthrough is sometimes used when a real bridged mode is not available. This will pass the WAN IP through to a secondary router.

3. Usually the end-user can switch between modes by connecting a laptop.  This can be confusing unless you've done it before because the modem might appear to stop responding.  Sometimes bridged mode is disabled and requires a call to your ISP to enable.

Also keep in mind that if you have extensive wiring in place now, and you setup the Arris in bridged mode, you will need to move all your wiring to terminate on the Orbi router ports, not in the Arris ports.

My suggestion was this: Forget about bridge mode.  Set everything back to how you had it before Orbi, plug Orbi into the LAN, configure Orbi for AP mode, turn off Arris WiFi, and you are done. You don't need to change any wiring either. All you need to do is wire the Yellow Internet port on Orbi to some point on your existing LAN. Much easier.

[RobertWycoff]

After some thought, I am going to bridge the Arris and follow the instructions and make an ethernet connection from Port 1 on the Arris to the Ethernet port on the RBK50.  Then I will connect my 8-port gigabit switch to an RBK50 Lan port.

My understanding is that with this setup, the Orbi becomes my router, replacing the Arris.  Hopefully, the Arris will continue to support Xfinity Voice and Xfinity Home, which the Orbi can't do.

Whether all this works will only be known when I try it.  My wi-fi is so bad, I will do ANYTHING to make it better.

[RobertWycoff]

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@st_shaw wrote:

1. It depends on what other equipment you have. If you have antoher router on your network, the Arris could be in bridged mode.  If the Arris is the only box, then it cannot be in bridge mode.

2. IP passthrough is sometimes used when a real bridged mode is not available. This will pass the WAN IP through to a secondary router.

3. Usually the end-user can switch between modes by connecting a laptop.  This can be confusing unless you've done it before because the modem might appear to stop responding.  Sometimes bridged mode is disabled and requires a call to your ISP to enable.

Also keep in mind that if you have extensive wiring in place now, and you setup the Arris in bridged mode, you will need to move all your wiring to terminate on the Orbi router ports, not in the Arris ports.

My suggestion was this: Forget about bridge mode.  Set everything back to how you had it before Orbi, plug Orbi into the LAN, configure Orbi for AP mode, turn off Arris WiFi, and you are done. You don't need to change any wiring either. All you need to do is wire the Yellow Internet port on Orbi to some point on your existing LAN. Much easier.

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Hmm.  I like that.  Do I still use the Orbi Ethernet port for my connection to my Arris?

[st_shaw]

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@RobertWycoff wrote:

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@st_shaw wrote:

1. It depends on what other equipment you have. If you have antoher router on your network, the Arris could be in bridged mode.  If the Arris is the only box, then it cannot be in bridge mode.

2. IP passthrough is sometimes used when a real bridged mode is not available. This will pass the WAN IP through to a secondary router.

3. Usually the end-user can switch between modes by connecting a laptop.  This can be confusing unless you've done it before because the modem might appear to stop responding.  Sometimes bridged mode is disabled and requires a call to your ISP to enable.

Also keep in mind that if you have extensive wiring in place now, and you setup the Arris in bridged mode, you will need to move all your wiring to terminate on the Orbi router ports, not in the Arris ports.

My suggestion was this: Forget about bridge mode.  Set everything back to how you had it before Orbi, plug Orbi into the LAN, configure Orbi for AP mode, turn off Arris WiFi, and you are done. You don't need to change any wiring either. All you need to do is wire the Yellow Internet port on Orbi to some point on your existing LAN. Much easier.

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Hmm.  I like that.  Do I still use the Orbi Ethernet port for my connection to my Arris?

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I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.  You connect the Yellow Internet port on the Orbi RBR50 to an Ethernet port somewhere on your LAN.  Normally you would connect it to a LAN port on the Arris.  But, you can connect the RBR50 somewhere else in the house, if that puts the RBR50 in a better central location.  After the RBR50 is connected, you can connect other devices to the Ethernet ports on the RBR50 and RBS50--they act like switches.

[RobertWycoff]

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@st_shaw wrote:

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@RobertWycoff wrote:

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@st_shaw wrote:

1. It depends on what other equipment you have. If you have antoher router on your network, the Arris could be in bridged mode.  If the Arris is the only box, then it cannot be in bridge mode.

2. IP passthrough is sometimes used when a real bridged mode is not available. This will pass the WAN IP through to a secondary router.

3. Usually the end-user can switch between modes by connecting a laptop.  This can be confusing unless you've done it before because the modem might appear to stop responding.  Sometimes bridged mode is disabled and requires a call to your ISP to enable.

Also keep in mind that if you have extensive wiring in place now, and you setup the Arris in bridged mode, you will need to move all your wiring to terminate on the Orbi router ports, not in the Arris ports.

My suggestion was this: Forget about bridge mode.  Set everything back to how you had it before Orbi, plug Orbi into the LAN, configure Orbi for AP mode, turn off Arris WiFi, and you are done. You don't need to change any wiring either. All you need to do is wire the Yellow Internet port on Orbi to some point on your existing LAN. Much easier.

---

Hmm.  I like that.  Do I still use the Orbi Ethernet port for my connection to my Arris?

---

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.  You connect the Yellow Internet port on the Orbi RBR50 to an Ethernet port somewhere on your LAN.  Normally you would connect it to a LAN port on the Arris.  But, you can connect the RBR50 somewhere else in the house, if that puts the RBR50 in a better central location.  After the RBR50 is connected, you can connect other devices to the Ethernet ports on the RBR50 and RBS50--they act like switches.

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I just want to make sure I connect the ethernet port of the Orbi to the Arris rather than one of the Orbi's Lan ports.  The installation instructiions says to do that, but I just wanted to be sure that since I would be putting the Orbi in AP mode I should still use its ehternt port to connect to the Arris.

[RobertWycoff]

Never mind.  I found the answer on page 84 of the User Manual.

[seurat0109]

Thanks for the additional comments and clarifications.

I think I know how to proceed.

Wayne

[RobertWycoff]

One last note; I will have to change my wireless printer to use the Orbi's SSID and password after Orbi installation.  (Also for any lurkers)

[seurat0109]

Robert,

I now have my system set up as an Access Point (AP) on my Xfinity gateway and everything appears to be working fine.  I have found, however, that I can't access the Orbi administration page.  I can access my Xfinity gateway administration page.

Can you access the Orbi administration page in AP mode?

Thanks,

Wayne

[RobertWycoff]

I'm waiting on the delivery of my Orbi.  Can you access it with the Genie or Orbi apps?

[seurat0109]

Robert,

I don't know what you mean by the Genie app. 

Evidently, I can access the Orbi using the Orbi app on my phone.  Of the 11 connected devices, however, it only shows an identifier for 1 device.  That would be my desktop.  The other devices are labeled "unknown", which is not particularly helpful.

I use my desktop to access the router administration pages, so not being able to reach the Orbi via my desktop is an issue.  The Orbi app seems to be very limited compared to the desktop, as well.

Wayne

[DarrenM]

Yes you can you may need the Ip address that your xfinity modem is assigning to it and you use that Ip address in the web browser.

DarrenM

[RobertWycoff]

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@DarrenM wrote:

Yes you can you may need the Ip address that your xfinity modem is assigning to it and you use that Ip address in the web browser.

DarrenM

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That matches what I have to do just to get into my Xfinity Gateway - 10.0.0.1 admin and password for password.

I have Genie on my desktops and my smartphones.  And I have Orbi on my smartphones.

[seurat0109]

DarrenM

Thanks for the clarification. 

I am able to access it, but the administration screen looks very different.  It appears that there are fewer options available as an AP, which makes sense, I suppose.  

Wayne

[RobertWycoff]

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@seurat0109 wrote:

DarrenM

Thanks for the clarification. 

I am able to access it, but the administration screen looks very different.  It appears that there are fewer options available as an AP, which makes sense, I suppose.  

Wayne

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Wayne,

That sounds like something that needs to be in the User Manual.  I haven't looked at every page yet because I don't have the Orbi.

[seurat0109]

Robert,

I checked and the Orbi is not listed as in scope for the Genie app.  See the following page:

https://kb.netgear.com/24686/Which-NETGEAR-home-router-models-can-I-manage-using-NETGEAR-genie-app

This sort of makes sense as there is an Orbi app available, but read on.

There is (or was) a Genie app for the desktop:

https://kb.netgear.com/19989/What-is-the-NETGEAR-genie-Desktop-App

When I click on the link on that page to get to the app, however, I only see references to a mobile (tablet/phone) app so perhaps the desktop app is no longer available.  If it is available, I would like to know where to get it as I much prefer working from the desktop to a mobile device.

In any case there is a User Manual for the Genie app.  I checked it an there is a mention of Orbi on pages 15 and 16, so my guess is that the Genie Mobile App will work with the Orbi.  The Orbi app appears to be more focused on setting up the Orbi, so perhaps the Genius app is the one that people should use once they have the Orbi actually working.

Wayne

[seurat0109]

Robert,

Point of clarification.  At the very bottom of the following page, there is a link to a PC executable:

http://www.netgear.com/home/discover/apps/genie.aspx

I downloaded and installed it and it does, in fact, detect the Orbi.  I'll probably try the Android app as well, as it will probably be more useful than the Orbi app.

Wayne

[RobertWycoff]

Thanks for all that information, Wayne.  It will help when I get my Orbi.  I have had a Netgear wireless router for over a year and I use Genie to manage it.  I don't remember at the moment where I saw mention of Genie in reference to Orbi, but the Orbi app is obviously for Orbi. <g>

I am going try the Orbi because my Xfinity gateway's wifi performance sucks.  I especially have a hard time getting my Chromecast Ultra to stream.

I hope your AP option works for you.  I discovered yesterday that Orbi has WPA, which I hope will make it easier to connect my Brother wifi printer to the network.  It appears the Orbi has most if not all the features of my gateway.  When Comcast rolls out Docsis 3.1 in my area (Houston), I will give it a try.  And my home wifi won't be affected by the change.

Regars,

Robert

[RobertWycoff]

Wayne,

I just thought of something to ask you;  with the Orbi in AP mode, I assume you can still access/modify the SSID and Password?