×

Introducing the Orbi 970 Series Mesh System with WiFi 7(BE) technology. For more information visit the NETGEAR Press Room.

Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

robsquatch
Tutor

Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

I have many different devices on my network that can connect only to 2.4gHz.  Obviously, with a mesh network, the broadcast frequency is automatically chosen in the background.  Because I have such good coverage everywhere in my house now, it is impossible to force these devices on to the slower frequency.  This is the case with my security cameras, wireless thermometers, etc.  The only solution I seem to find is one that involves changing command lines which seems ridiculous to me.  Is there a quick and easy way to turn off 5gHz temporarily to program new devices?  I have also tried turning down the 5gHz power as well, with no progress.

Model: RBK43| Orbi AC2200 WiFi System
Message 1 of 22

Accepted Solutions
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

What FW is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
Is the Orbi system operating in Router or AP mode?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

 

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

If you updated to recent FW v.210, try enabling Daisy Chain. Some have mentioned that this seems to be working in reverse order, enabling means disabled actually.
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-2-2-1-210-and-connection-problems-Skybell/m-p/1649275...

 


Advanced Wireless Settings both 2.4GHz and 5GHz changed CTS/RTS Threshold to 2307.
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR40-RBS40-V2-1-4-16-mesh-network-drops-connection-to/m-...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Have-to-keep-rebooting-my-RBR50/m-p/1658603/highlight/false#M4...
Change the CTR/RTS threshold values for both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz (2341 and 2345 respectively), changed preamble modes to long preamble, and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only.


@robsquatch wrote:

I have many different devices on my network that can connect only to 2.4gHz.  Obviously, with a mesh network, the broadcast frequency is automatically chosen in the background.  Because I have such good coverage everywhere in my house now, it is impossible to force these devices on to the slower frequency.  This is the case with my security cameras, wireless thermometers, etc.  The only solution I seem to find is one that involves changing command lines which seems ridiculous to me.  Is there a quick and easy way to turn off 5gHz temporarily to program new devices?  I have also tried turning down the 5gHz power as well, with no progress.


 

View solution in original post

Message 5 of 22

All Replies
eljarviso
Luminary

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

I had the same problem when trying to connect my ring doorbell and Anova Sous Vide. I ended up throwing up an old airport express and have been running my temperamental 2.4ghz devices off that.
Message 2 of 22
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

This topic seems to "never die".  If a device has ONLY 2.4G radios in it, it literally "doesn't matter" that some router is broadcasting 5G SSID's.  The device CANNOT "talk 5G."  I have all sorts of devices in my home (Nest Thermostat, Reolink Argus cameras, Simiplisafe base unit etc. that only do 2.4G, and had zero issues installing them.  Most of those devices have a way for the user to input the SSID and password, either a keyboard or scanning a smart bar code.  There are other devices, like "smart plugs", which rely on a smart phone app for setup.  Their designers actually set them up to act as WiFi access points so that the smart phone app can find and connect to them.  Once connected, the we key the SSID and password of the network we want them to connect to into the app and the app tells them to the device.  From then on, they work like any other device (until we change the SSID and/or password, and everything stops working until we reconnect every device). Even though our smart phones are connected to the Orbi at 5G, when we run the app, it finds the 2.4G smart plug and configures it.  On the other hand, when the device app is poorly written, it can be impossible to install the device at all.  (See the thread about Whirlpool microwave.)

 

There is no need to turn off the 5G radio (or turn the signal down) to install 2.4G devices.

 

With that said, it is abundantly clear that some Orbi owners HAVE PROBLEMS getting 2.4G devices to work and are trying all sorts of things to get them installed.  My  (personal) belief is that the fault lies with the combination of the device and/or their smart phone, not with the Orbi. 

 

I would REALLY like it if some some expert could figure out exactly what is going on that keeps this question coming up over and over.

Message 3 of 22
eljarviso
Luminary

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

It’s a common problem with some 2.4Gjz only devices trying to connect to ssid’s that broadcast on 2.4 and 5ghz. It’s very common in the enterprise world especially among hvac controllers, medical devices, and debit card terminals. To address this many wifi vendors allow you to spin up a separate SSID on only one channel.
Message 4 of 22
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

What FW is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
Is the Orbi system operating in Router or AP mode?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

 

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

If you updated to recent FW v.210, try enabling Daisy Chain. Some have mentioned that this seems to be working in reverse order, enabling means disabled actually.
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-2-2-1-210-and-connection-problems-Skybell/m-p/1649275...

 


Advanced Wireless Settings both 2.4GHz and 5GHz changed CTS/RTS Threshold to 2307.
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR40-RBS40-V2-1-4-16-mesh-network-drops-connection-to/m-...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Have-to-keep-rebooting-my-RBR50/m-p/1658603/highlight/false#M4...
Change the CTR/RTS threshold values for both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz (2341 and 2345 respectively), changed preamble modes to long preamble, and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only.


@robsquatch wrote:

I have many different devices on my network that can connect only to 2.4gHz.  Obviously, with a mesh network, the broadcast frequency is automatically chosen in the background.  Because I have such good coverage everywhere in my house now, it is impossible to force these devices on to the slower frequency.  This is the case with my security cameras, wireless thermometers, etc.  The only solution I seem to find is one that involves changing command lines which seems ridiculous to me.  Is there a quick and easy way to turn off 5gHz temporarily to program new devices?  I have also tried turning down the 5gHz power as well, with no progress.


 

Message 5 of 22
randomousity
Luminary

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

I don't know this for sure, but I have a theory that the problem lies with the apps for the smart devices. I'm probably not an "expert" within the scope of how you meant it.

 

Something like, when you're configuring a smart device via the accompanying app, it's possible that the app is looking at the BSSID, BSS, etc., the phone is using (e.g., 5GHz), and, while the app (should) obviously know that the device is only 2.4GHz-capable (not always the case, as some apps may work for multiple devices, only a subset of which are 2.4GHz-only), the app may be collecting and transmitting to the smart device settings the device is physically incapable of putting to use. This could be happening due to sloppy programming on the app devs' part, due in part to the unanticipated use of the same SSID for both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz WLANs, which I don't believe was very common prior to mesh systems (e.g., my previous router, when naming the SSID as [arbitary name X], would apply that to the 2.4GHz WLAN, and then also create X-5G and X-guest by default, resulting in three WLANs with unique names).

 

This could be happening because, during the configuration, the user tells the app which WLAN to use, and then the app queries the phone for the details of that WLAN, referenced by SSID, and the phone replies with the 5GHz details, since that's what the phone is connected to, not realizing the app actually needs the 2.4GHz details instead, since the SSID is ambiguous, existing on both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands.

 

Alternatively, it could be something like, the app asks the user for the (2.4GHz) SSID, sees that it's a valid 2.4GHz WLAN, despite the phone being connected to the matching 5GHz WLAN, and then tells the phone to connect to the smart device via this SSID, without specifying that the phone use the 2.4GHz version of the WLAN. The app sees that X is a 2.4GHz WLAN, but the phone transmits the configuration settings over the 5GHz WLAN by the same name, thus never reaching the 2.4GHz-only device, and resulting in a configuration failure.

Message 6 of 22
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

I appologize for having hijacked the original thread.  Perhaps we could be more helpful if robsquatch identified the specific 2.4G devices which are difficult to connect.  That information may provide helpful clues.

 

When devices come "out of the box", they can wake up and detect SSID's, but they have no idea which SSID should be connected to, and they have no password to supply.  Somehow, they have to get that information in order to connect successfully.  With devices that offer an "input mechanism", such as a keyboard, camera, or ethernet port, the user can provide the SSID and password through that input.  (My Reolink battery camera app creates a smart bar code which I hold in front of the camera.  The cameras with ethernet have to be connected to a computer the first time.  My security system uses the key pad to select the SSID and (tediously) input the password.)

 

I doubt that a smart phone app providing SSID and password for the Orbi connection (somehow) to a device can be the problem.  Orbi uses the same SSID and password for both 2.4G and 5G.  The device would know, "look for this SSID and give it this password."  The device sees only 2.4G networks.  Finds the Orbi 2.4G signal.  Gives it the password. And, "voila. connected."

 

Something about the device firmware, the smart phone, and the app isn't working.  Maybe some phones restrict what apps can do in regard to WiFi, so the app fails to find the device.  Maybe..... (a lot of things).  When it works, it's slick.  My TP-Link smart plug setup was complete in under 10 minutes using an Android phone connected to Orbi at 5G, including setting up the Kasa account and updating the plug firmware.  But then, TP-Link makes computer devices, not doorbells or food cookers.

 

I Googled the Ring doorbell and found comments wondering if (a) some devices can connect only on channels 1, 6, or 11, or (b) some devices may "stick" to their first channel and not realize that the WiFi access point has changed to another.  Seems pretty dumb (to me), but might be the case.

 

Again, sorry I haven't done anything to help.

Message 7 of 22
robsquatch
Tutor

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

Any feedback is helpful 🙂

The specific devices giving me problems are as follows:

1) La Crosse WiFi weather station
2) Amazon cloud cam

Both manuals specially call out 2.4 only and these are the only two devices giving me problems.
Message 8 of 22
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

Try turning down the 5Ghz power on the Orbi to 25% to see if this might help. Try the other suggestions as well. 

What channels does the Mfrs of these devices recommend using on 2.4Ghz? Try manual 1, 6 or 11

What security modes does the Mfrs of these devices recommend using? WPA or WPA2? TPIK or AES? 


@robsquatch wrote:
Any feedback is helpful 🙂

The specific devices giving me problems are as follows:

1) La Crosse WiFi weather station
2) Amazon cloud cam

Both manuals specially call out 2.4 only and these are the only two devices giving me problems.

 

Message 9 of 22
robsquatch
Tutor

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

I tried turning down the power as well as unplugging the closest satellites with no success. I didn’t try changing the channel. I will try that tonight. Thank you!!
Message 10 of 22
randomousity
Luminary

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that this shouldn't be an issue. But it really depends on how the app configures the device. If the app just tells the device "connect to [SSID] using [password]," there should be no issue. But, if the app says something like, "connect to AP with [MAC address] on [SSID] using [password]," where the MAC is the Orbi's 5G MAC, the smart device will be unable to complete this, and will fail. And, if the phone sees both 2.4G [SSID] and 5G [SSID] and the app just asks for the details of [SSID], it's ambiguous, and the phone might naturally reply with the 5G details, that being the WLAN it was most recently connected to, and, possibly, the only version of [SSID] the phone has ever connected to. And yes, it could be some security setting on the phone that limits what the OS can give to the app regarding WLAN details. This is why my guess is that, while we know the device only needs [SSID] and [password], and, superficially, it looks like the app is only passing those along to the device, there must be something else at play here.

 

I don't think it can be that the devices can only connect to channels 1, 6, or 11, otherwise disabling the 5G WLAN on the Orbi via telnet wouldn't work for anyone, which it seems to do. It also wouldn't explain why giving the 2.4G and 5G WLANs different SSIDs would work for people. I've also not seen any solutions saying to set the 2.4G channel on Orbi to 1, 6, or 11 (as opposed to either auto or one of the other 8 channels in 2-5 or 7-10) and those working for people with Orbis. But who knows?

 

At any rate, I suspect the issue is either with the devices and their firmware, and/or the app. Even if there's an OS limitation on what wifi info an app can get from the OS, that should be irrelevant, because the app should only be passing on [SSID] and [password] to the device, and that should be all the device needs to successfully connect, and it should be possible to connect the smart device to a WLAN the phone isn't and has never connected to. The app using a GUI and pulling the available WLAN SSIDs from the OS should only save the user some typing and eliminate transcription errors.

 

C'est la vie.

Message 11 of 22
ekhalil
Master

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?


@robsquatch wrote:
Any feedback is helpful 🙂

The specific devices giving me problems are as follows:

1) La Crosse WiFi weather station
2) Amazon cloud cam

Both manuals specially call out 2.4 only and these are the only two devices giving me problems.

I think this issue happens only when the phone (where the app is) connects to the 5GHz band and the device is trying to access the 2.4 GHz band.

This is a bad design of the app and not an Orbi issue.

If you have a very old phone that only supports 2.4 GHz then you should smoothly attach your devices. 🙂

Message 12 of 22
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

This thread has certainly "opened my eyes" to how things get connected.  Amazon's Cloud Cam app requires a Bluetooth connection to talk to the camera for setup.  Their troubleshooting advice ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GSE2KHKMAWFLGLPZ ) suggests removing the "mesh" from the problem (turning off satellites).  The video is pretty slick.  At what part of the setup does the app fail?  Like, does it "see" the Orbi SSID?  Does it ask for the password and then die?

 

Message 13 of 22
landguitar
Aspirant

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

 All these answers are great and show an in-depth understanding of networking, but for most of us, that's not why we bought these.  We want plug and play.

 

 I have a device - a pool controller from Zodiac, iAqualink, that won't stay connected to my Orbi system because the Zodiac device logs on and off and thus loses it's IP address, then can't reconnect.  The only way to do that, according to Zodiac, is to set up a guest network at 2.4 Ghz.  I believe the OP is asking that.  I don't see a way to do that, nor have I found it here.  According to Zodiac, it IS possible and works for their device, which they admit is at fault.  But I can't change that and only need to accomodate by setting up a specified 2.4 Mhz guest network. 

 

So, how do I do that, please?

Model: RBR50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Router Only)
Message 14 of 22
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

What model Orbi do you have? 

Have you logged into the Orbi web page to look for Guest Network? I believe there is a menu item for Guest Network. 

 

I would also set a IP address reservation for any of your devices ON the router so that they get an IP address and it doesn't change. 

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?
What WPA security modes are you using?

 

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).


@landguitar wrote:

 All these answers are great and show an in-depth understanding of networking, but for most of us, that's not why we bought these.  We want plug and play.

 

 I have a device - a pool controller from Zodiac, iAqualink, that won't stay connected to my Orbi system because the Zodiac device logs on and off and thus loses it's IP address, then can't reconnect.  The only way to do that, according to Zodiac, is to set up a guest network at 2.4 Ghz.  I believe the OP is asking that.  I don't see a way to do that, nor have I found it here.  According to Zodiac, it IS possible and works for their device, which they admit is at fault.  But I can't change that and only need to accomodate by setting up a specified 2.4 Mhz guest network. 

 

So, how do I do that, please?


 

Message 15 of 22
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

I agree 100% with landguitar.  What we want is for these things to "just work."  Alas, there is ample evidence that people are frequently disappointed and frustrated.  I persue this discussion because it appears to me that in their frustration, people seize on "solutions" that do not address the problem and spend a lot of time and energy in fruitless efforts.  I hope that we can together come up with a methodolgy to understand and address these problems.

 

In the specific case of the pool controller that "loses its IP address", Furrey38 is entirely correct.  Log into the Orbi, select Advanced->Setup->LAN Setup and create an IP that will be assigned to the controller every time it connects.  I do that with nearly all of my "permanent" devices.  This is tons easier than trying to force Orbi to do something it is designed not to do.

 

It is also possible that the Pool device is not performing as expected for some other reason.  Help Desks are notorious for giving out false or misleading information when they don't actually have an answer.  These folks may be "pool experts", but not necessarily "network experts."  If the Zodiak knows the SSID and password for your Orbi network, it should connect every time.  Maybe they mean that it cannot "connect" to their server farm if it changes IP's, but that's also difficult to swallow.  I'd give it a set IP address in the Orbi, but not be surprised if that doesn't solve things.

Message 16 of 22
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

Let us know if any of this helps. 


@landguitar wrote:

 All these answers are great and show an in-depth understanding of networking, but for most of us, that's not why we bought these.  We want plug and play.

 

 I have a device - a pool controller from Zodiac, iAqualink, that won't stay connected to my Orbi system because the Zodiac device logs on and off and thus loses it's IP address, then can't reconnect.  The only way to do that, according to Zodiac, is to set up a guest network at 2.4 Ghz.  I believe the OP is asking that.  I don't see a way to do that, nor have I found it here.  According to Zodiac, it IS possible and works for their device, which they admit is at fault.  But I can't change that and only need to accomodate by setting up a specified 2.4 Mhz guest network. 

 

So, how do I do that, please?


 

Message 17 of 22
landguitar
Aspirant

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

Thanks guys, but none of this worked.  I have an AT&T Arris Modem/Router that I don't connect to by wi-fi, so I made the attempt to connect my iAqualink Zodiac device to; and so far it is working.  So all this is because of something in the Orbi...

I thought I had to have my phone on the same wi-fi as the Zodiac device to connect through it's app, but that's apparently not the case either.  Very wierd.  We'll see if this connection holds.  Out of the many devices I have, a number of which are 2.4 Ghz, this Zodiac is the only problematic one.  Clearly their "chip" is dated/an issue - they even admit to that - and they may even have a software issue, but I really don't understand why the Orbi can't work with it.  Again, it does with all my other devices.  The unfortunate part is that I am likely going to switch to Xfinity when they finish their fiber connection in our neighborhood, and was going to buy a Netgear modem only to plug the Orbi into.  I guess I will have to rethink that.  AT&T service has been annoyingly undependable in my area since Hurricane Harvey last year, and even while I was working on this this afternoon, AT&T's internet was going in and out.  Not sure if I should buy a modem with wi-fi that is NOT a Netgear, or try a Netgear and see what happens.  

 

Very annoying.  Thanks for your suggestions and quick response though!  If you think of anything else, let me konw.

Model: RBR50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Router Only), RBS50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Satellite Only)
Message 18 of 22
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

(a) It's good that your pool automation is working, and (b) it's frustrating that we were unable to find a solution for you regarding the Orbi.  This iAqualink Zodiak consists of a controller that is located where? (in relation to the Arris modem/router and to the Orbi router/satellites)

 

Were you able to configure the Orbi to give your iAqualink the same IP address every time it turns on?

 

On the Xfinity fiber topic, the fiber modem may come bundled into the installation.  My son in North Carolina just installed a "gigabit passive fiber" (not from Comcast) that came with a modem to connect the fiber to.  His WiFi router connects to that.  Unlike the standardized DOCSIS cable modems we are accustomed to, passive optical fiber is a time division multiplexing system where the fiber modem may be unique to each fiber system.

Message 19 of 22
landguitar
Aspirant

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

Crimp - yes, I was able to get the Zodiac a specific IP address, but that didn't get it to "hold" with the Orbi wi-fi.  Zodiac has not explained other than that their signal is not constant, which I don't really understand, but that seems to be a cause of the issue.  But my AT&T modem/router WILL stay connected to the Zodiac even with a not-always-on Zodiac signal...and the Zodiac controller is about 25 feet away, outside, on the other side of the house's brick wall.  Signal is good and strong there for both the Orbi and AT&T modem.  Like so many folks, I got the Orbi because with it and 1 satellite located upstairs in our 4,000 sq. ft. 2-story brick home, I get great coverage in the house and even in most of our back yard and driveway and garage, whereas the AT&T router wi-fi, even with a repeater from Apple or Netgear, was barely reaching past the brick exterior and not even across all of the house.  Of course, ours is like so many U.S. houses (based on my experience living in the South, Southwest and West, anyway), houses built in the 90's to almost current which typically have the "communications" wiring panel in the master bedroom closet, which is rarely anywhere near the center of a typical 2 story - or even 1 story - house.  But the Orbi does a great job of reaching across the whole house!

 

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what Xfinity/Comcast offers when they do finish the fiber in our neighborhood.

thanks again for your help and for following up!

Model: RBR50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Router Only), RBS50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Satellite Only)
Message 20 of 22
bukzin
Aspirant

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

WOW!   That looks WAY over my head.   Is there a simpler method for non-techies

to switch between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.

 

I have the Orbi RBR50 with two remote units.

 

Thx

Message 21 of 22
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Best way to add 2.4 gHz ONLY devices to Orbi mesh network?

Try this, Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings, remove the check mark for Broadcast SSID under the 5Ghz radio section. Apply the change. Get your 2.4ghz devices connected, then re-enable the 5Ghz SSID broadcast.


@bukzin wrote:

WOW!   That looks WAY over my head.   Is there a simpler method for non-techies

to switch between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.

 

I have the Orbi RBR50 with two remote units.

 

Thx


 

Message 22 of 22
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
  • 21 replies
  • 167069 views
  • 29 kudos
  • 8 in conversation
Announcements

Orbi WiFi 7