Connection between Router and satelite has changed from 5g to 2,4g all of a sudden.

[Pattywack]

Hi guys

I'm looking for some help with my setup. I live in a 100m2 two story house. My internet backhaul is in the livingroom on the 1st floor while my satelite is located in the hallway on the second floor. My ISP modem is in bridge mode connected to the router. I've had the system for 20 days now and I've had some small problems. Two times have i experienced that the connection between the satelite and the router has changed from 5G to 2,4G all of a sudden without any change in the enviroment. The first time it happened i tried to factory reset, first the satelite and then the whole system. Nothing helped. So i swapped the location of the satelite from my workroom to the hallway. Everything went perfect for a week and now it has changed back to 2.4G. I can't keep moving the satelite everytime it changes from 5G to 2,4G. The interspeed drops from 500/100 to 100/100 which for me is unacceptable. Without any changes in the enviroment is it possible for the connection to suddenly drop from 5G to 2,4G? Are there any firmware problems regarding this? Are there any settings I can change to try and fix the problem? I have disabled daisychain and enabled Mimo and WMM aswell. 

I'm hoping that there is a soloution to the problem otherwise I might have to return the product within my 30 day trial.

Sorry for my bad english. It's not my first language.

[CrimpOn]

If the satellite ring light turned Blue for 2 minutes when it sync'd to the router, and the Attached Devices web page showed the connection was "Good", then something must have happened to cause the router to abandon the 5G WiFi backhaul channel.  Depending on your location, there could be interactions with military and weather radar systems.  I found this post:

Orbi’s Radar Detection on backhaul DFS

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/5Ghz-channels/td-p/1538610

As mentioned, Orbi uses DFS channels for backhaul, when Radar signals are detected, Orbi will switch to other channels for backhaul.
To see the events when Orbi detects radar signals you can check this in Orbi log as follows:

1. Enable Telnet in the routers debug.htm page
2. Telnet to Orbi and enter the following command:
• root@RBR50:~# cat /var/radardetect.log
3. You will get printout similar to this:

Radar Detected at [Wed Jan 23 23:19:55 CET 2019 ] on channels [116,120,124,128]
Radar Detected at [Wed Jan 23 23:26:20 CET 2019 ] on channels [100,104,108,112]

[FURRYe38]

What Firmware version is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

There is a recent v16 version of FW that seems to be better for users you might want to try:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/RBR20-RBS20-2-5-1-16-firmware-observations/m-p/1897766/highlig...

[Pattywack]

I was not aware of that. Maybe that's the case. I'll give it a go. Thanks.

[FURRYe38]

Please give feedback to the questions as well...

[Pattywack]

I'm currently at version 2.5.1.8. The distance between the two units is probably between 15-20 feet.

I have a question about beamforming. As to my understanding the router focus more of sending the signal in "one" direction instead of 360 degrees. What is the deciding factor for what direction is chosen?

I'll give the other settings a try if the radar thing is not the reason 🙂 

Thanks for the torough answer.

Edit: We do have neighbours on each side of the house. 

[FURRYe38]

https://kb.netgear.com/23503/Beamforming-FAQs

https://www.howtogeek.com/220774/htg-explains-what-is-beamforming-on-a-wireless-router/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamforming

What channels are the neigbors using? 

Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

[Pattywack]

@CrimpOn - So i just tried the telnet thing and got this result:

Radar Detected at [Sun Apr 19 21:50:42 UTC 2020 ] on channels [100,104,108,112]
Radar Detected at [Thu Apr 23 04:09:12 UTC 2020 ] on channels [116,120,124,128]

Would I then try to prevent my setup from using those channels?

[Pattywack]

Thanks for the reply @FURRYe38. I tried all of the settings you told me to and nothing have really helped. Just to test it, I tried moving the satelite to the same room, within 5feet of the router and the connection type is still 2,4G. 

The modem is a Sagecom fast 3890v3 modem provided by my ISP. Could this be something regarding me not having a static IP? 

I really new into network configuring and setup so sorry for my slow handling and lack of knowledge. 

I'm lost in what to do now. I don't know why the satelite wont do a 5G backhaul connection to the router.. 

Edit: I have updated both BRB and BRS to 2.5.1.16 aswell.

[CrimpOn]

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@Pattywack wrote:

@CrimpOn - So i just tried the telnet thing and got this result:

Radar Detected at [Sun Apr 19 21:50:42 UTC 2020 ] on channels [100,104,108,112]
Radar Detected at [Thu Apr 23 04:09:12 UTC 2020 ] on channels [116,120,124,128]

Would I then try to prevent my setup from using those channels?

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The Orbi selects 5G backhaul automatically based on country code. When it detects military or weather radar on a frequency that it has chosen, it is forced to move.  In the US, most Orbi's seem to use channels 149-161 for the backhaul connection.

It might help to know which country this Orbi is in.

[Pattywack]

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The Orbi selects 5G backhaul automatically based on country code. When it detects military or weather radar on a frequency that it has chosen, it is forced to move.  In the US, most Orbi's seem to use channels 149-161 for the backhaul connection.

It might help to know which country this Orbi is in.

That makes sense. I'm living in Denmark and the 5G channels I can choose from is 36, 40, 44 and 48. 

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[CrimpOn]

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@Pattywack wrote:

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That makes sense. I'm living in Denmark and the 5G channels I can choose from is 36, 40, 44 and 48. 

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Thanks.  Channels 36, 40, 44, and 48 are the "user facing" 5G channels.  Ordinarily the Orbi combines all of them to create an 80 mb wide frequency band to create 866mb of maximum transmission capacity.

This Wikipedia article shows how WiFi channels are regulated in different parts of the world.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels 

Notice that channels 149-161 that are used for backhaul in the US (Marked "Yes"), the EU has designated "SRD 25mW").

I suspect that the EU has limited output power in the higher band so much that Orbi is designed to use the "radar" bands which allow higher power, but also are forced to "move" when radar is detected.

There is probably a "hack" to force the 5G backhaul to a channel that radar has not been detected on.

One person I have seen on the forum who seems to "really understand" WiFi radios is @ekhalil .  I think he travels and may not be on the forum as much these days.

[Pattywack]

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Thanks.  Channels 36, 40, 44, and 48 are the "user facing" 5G channels.  Ordinarily the Orbi combines all of them to create an 80 mb wide frequency band to create 866mb of maximum transmission capacity.

This Wikipedia article shows how WiFi channels are regulated in different parts of the world.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels 

Notice that channels 149-161 that are used for backhaul in the US (Marked "Yes"), the EU has designated "SRD 25mW").

I suspect that the EU has limited output power in the higher band so much that Orbi is designed to use the "radar" bands which allow higher power, but also are forced to "move" when radar is detected.

There is probably a "hack" to force the 5G backhaul to a channel that radar has not been detected on.

One person I have seen on the forum who seems to "really understand" WiFi radios is @ekhalil .  I think he travels and may not be on the forum as much these days.

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I wasn't expecting this to be so difficult to resolve. This really goes beyond what i expected that I had to do to try and fix the problem. I'm kinda in the lost right now because I have no idea if I'm able to fix the problem. If i return the RBK50 and try another system, will that system not have the same issues?

[CrimpOn]

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@Pattywack wrote:

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I wasn't expecting this to be so difficult to resolve. This really goes beyond what i expected that I had to do to try and fix the problem. I'm kinda in the lost right now because I have no idea if I'm able to fix the problem. If i return the RBK50 and try another system, will that system not have the same issues?

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Current WiFi systems fall into "2 band" or "3 band" (sometimes called "Tri-Band").  The 2-Band products use the same 5G channel that supports users for the communication between their own devices.  Google Mesh, for example, operates this way (I think).  Companies moved to "Tri-Band" to increase the inter-device communication speed and not use up any of the user facing capacity.  I think all of the Tri-Band products will probably have issues in your environment.

Shame you cannot connect the satellite with an ethernet cable.  All of this discussion "goes away" over etherent.

[FURRYe38]

It's possible that you have a bad satellite which need to be replaced. I would return the system to where you got it or make contact with NG support and ask about an RMA if thats an option for you. 

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@Pattywack wrote:

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I wasn't expecting this to be so difficult to resolve. This really goes beyond what i expected that I had to do to try and fix the problem. I'm kinda in the lost right now because I have no idea if I'm able to fix the problem. If i return the RBK50 and try another system, will that system not have the same issues?

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