Reply
Reagten
Aspirant

Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

We need to buy a mesh system NOW.  I like that the Orbi gets the highest marks for performance on many review sites, but if it doesn't support ethernet backhaul, then this is a deal breaker.

 

No, we are not going to buy it because... it's coming.  Especially since the Eero and Amplifi already support it, NOW.

 

It's now or never.  Hopefully, an official Netgear rep can clear the air about this.

 

Otherwise, our $600 mesh budget will be going to Eero or Ubiquiti.

 

Message 1 of 27
martyfp
Luminary

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Currently no Ethernet backhaul support - however, Netgear have stated many times that it being worked on for some as-yet unspecified future release. 

 

I'll leave it to the Netgear folks to comment further though....

 

 

 

Message 2 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

First off, Orbi is not really a mesh system. In a mesh system, a satellite can send traffic through another satellite. Orbi can't do that. All satellites must connect to the base station.

 

Second, Orbi's greatest asset is its wireless backhaul. It would be a waste to spend hundreds of $ and not use it.  If you have an Ethernet backbone, then you should be looking at deploying Access Points.

Message 3 of 27
Reagten
Aspirant

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Do access points allow seamless hand off from one AP to another?

Message 4 of 27

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?


@Reagten wrote:

Do access points allow seamless hand off from one AP to another?

 

the first question is why do you need to buy a mesh system NOW ?


whats the user case that needs it now and why

 

yes in exactly or nearly exactly the same way all of these mesh /dw systems do and none of them are actually seamless  , in the end its the client devices that must choose to disconnect from one transmission to then connect to the other

 

we have been using wireless access points for years in schools and offices and the like and have had no issues , all that needs to be done is down scaling to suit the home needs

 

a good stand alone router and a few well placed wireless access point will deliver at least as good as any mesh/dw if not better in regards to throughput

 

suggest you look at something like a ubiquiti edge router and a few ubiquiti unifi AC lite AP's

 

 

 

 

Message 5 of 27
Mikey94025
Prodigy

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Why do people keep asking about this?  It's simple... Orbi doesn't have it (a simple internet search would've told you this too).  Look elsewhere if you need ethernet backhaul.

 

Meanwhile, everyone else who doesn't need ethernet backhaul are looking at Orbi,

 

Message 6 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?


@Reagten wrote:

Do access points allow seamless hand off from one AP to another?


Leaving enterprise gear out of the discussion, keep in mind that hand off is generally decided by the device, not by the access point. AFAIK, even the Orbi won't initiate hand off of a device between satellites.

 

Whether or not the hand off is seamless really depends on the aggressiveness of the device's roaming algorithm. Most smartphones are not aggressive; they are very sticky. This often results in a poor handoff experience.

 

The hand off experience will also depend on the placement of the access points. Place them too closely and a device may not roam.  Too far apart and there will be dead spots.  I've seen recommendations in some enterprise guides for 15%-20% overlap between Wi-Fi cells, where the edge of each cell is -67 dBm.

 

Some consumer grade access points are now starting to support the trio of protocols, 802.11r/k/v, to facilitate fast BSS transition (aka fast roaming) but these are really designed to combat the high costs of hand off in an enterprise setting. In a home environment, they may not offer much or any improvement. In addition, a few brands do offer a minimum RSSI setting that will kick a device off in order to force it to roam. But this can hardly be considered a seamless hand off!

 

Message 7 of 27
thebishop
Apprentice

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

"

First off, Orbi is not really a mesh system. In a mesh system, a satellite can send traffic through another satellite. Orbi can't do that. All satellites must connect to the base station."

 

Actually, now with 2.0 firmware it is. As Daisy-Chaining was enabled.

Message 8 of 27

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

yup


@thebishop wrote:

"

First off, Orbi is not really a mesh system. In a mesh system, a satellite can send traffic through another satellite. Orbi can't do that. All satellites must connect to the base station."

 

Actually, now with 2.0 firmware it is. As Daisy-Chaining was enabled.


yup and it works , not exactly mesh but dam close

Message 9 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

What makes it not mesh?
Message 10 of 27
rhester72
Virtuoso

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

With many nodes, mesh will keep track of fastest path and reroute as needed (which also makes it self-healing).  Netgear can't (currently) do that, but Eero and Google does.

 

Rodney

Message 11 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Do the chained satellites still use the dedicated backhaul to communicate with their upstream satellites? Or does it behave more like a traditional repeater?
Message 12 of 27

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?


@TheEther wrote:
Do the chained satellites still use the dedicated backhaul to communicate with their upstream satellites? Or does it behave more like a traditional repeater?

yes , it uses the 5 gig backhaul , but you dont see the 50% loss of a repeater as the backhaul has twice the capacity of the front haul so it pretty much counteracts any loss , however if you daisy chaimed a few back to back i would guess you would see demionishing returns throughput wise

Message 13 of 27
Troyusrex
Aspirant

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

The use case for me is that I have a house using Orbi, a small detached office, and a Carriage house. All are passive solar built and with a mesh wire layer holding the outside insulation on meaning they all act like Faraday cages and wireless signals do not go through the walls well. Orbi is FANTASTIC for my house. I don't have ethernet run throughout the house so the wireless backhaul is great I used to have to have multiple SSIDs around the house which is a real pain.

 

Unfortunately, Orbi is almost worthless for the other buildings as they can't take advantage of the wireless backhaul. So I use Orbi in my house, with ethernet over powerline out to the other buildings and separate APs with different SSIDs out there. 

 

The IDEAL solution would be all Orbi with all the same SSIDs. So, the 2 internal satellites would use wireless backhauls while the other buildings would have an Orbi with a wired backhaul. This way there'd be no switching no matter where on the property I am. 

 

I understand that my use case is very rare, and I'm sticking with Orbi for the house even if they never get a wired backhaul. But, the minute they do get the wired backhaul I'm getting two more satellites and wiring them up.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 14 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Set your APs to use the same SSID as the Orbi. Problem solved.
Message 15 of 27

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

doesnt exactly work that way

Message 16 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Why not?
Message 17 of 27

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

roaming wont work well and ap band steering will be effected

Message 18 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

AP steering shouldn't be affected; the Orbi should still be able to steer clients among its own satellites. A client will have to initiate its own switch to the non-Orbi APs. Sure, client-initiated roaming isn't great since most clients are sticky, but roaming between two BSSIDs in the same ESSID is better than roaming between two ESSIDs. At the very least, a client won't have to renew its DHCP when staying within the ESSID.
Message 19 of 27
Troyusrex
Aspirant

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

I tried changing the SSIDs to all be the same. It kinda sorta worked for awhile and then stopped. I think the problem is that there is still some signal leakage into the detached buildings. Not enough to use, be enough to keep the client stuck to it. 

 

Thanks for the idea though. it was worth a try.

Message 20 of 27
TheEther
Guru

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

You might want to run a Wi-Fi scanning app and measure the signal strength of the Orbi while standing in the detached building. This will tell you the amount of the leakage.

If you toggle Wi-Fi off and on while in the detached building, the device should reconnect to the nearest AP. Yes, it mostly defeats the purpose but it's still one less SSID to maintain. Plus, you are probably manually switching, anyway, so you are not any worse off.
Message 21 of 27
Belldandi
Aspirant

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Have you tried using the same SSID but having them on different channels? Haven’t noticed any issue.
Message 22 of 27
TennisNJ
Aspirant

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Hi, your first statement is not correct. With firmware v2.0.0.74 supports mesh topology. Check release notes/page of Orbi v2.0.0.74 update. This is from Netgear firmware page:
New Features and Enhancements:
Supports daisy-chain topology, which allows Orbi satellites to connect to other satellites or to the router.

Glad at least this feature was added. I haven't tested this yet so can't speak to it or confirm it. Hope this helps.
Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 23 of 27
DarrenM
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Orbi now supports Ethernet backhaul with the latest firmware.

 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Announcing-availability-of-OrbiOS-2-1/m-p/1448279#M16930

 

DarrenM

Message 24 of 27
Troyusrex
Aspirant

Re: Does the Orbi have ethernet backhaul?

Yay! I just ordered another satellite. I'll let you know how well it works.

Message 25 of 27
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