Reply
st_shaw
Master

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


ArtLee wrote:


Question: Would I gain anything by turning off 2.4ghz? Not that it's possible with the current fw. I do have b/g/n devices, like printers. Can they connect to 5 ghz? Or, do they require 2.4?


If your system is working fine, then there is no benefit to you in disablng 2.4. There may be benefit to your neighbors though, by reduced interference.  The biggest benefit of having 2.4 active is that it penetrates walls far better than 5 GHz.  This is what allows Orbi to provide a usable signal across an entire 5,000 SF home (or whatever the current claim is).  You would not get that with 5 GHz only, unless you had an AP in almost every room.

 

One thing few people seem to get is that Orbi uses 2.4 for the backhaul.  Even when you could "turn off" 2.4 in the old firmware, Orbi still maintained a hidden SSID on 2.4, so the radio was still in use, just not as visible. Perhaps the radio frequency utilization is less though, with no clients associated.

Message 276 of 810
ArtLee
Apprentice

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


@st_shaw wrote:

@ArtLee wrote:


Question: Would I gain anything by turning off 2.4ghz? Not that it's possible with the current fw. I do have b/g/n devices, like printers. Can they connect to 5 ghz? Or, do they require 2.4?


If your system is working fine, then there is no benefit to you in disablng 2.4. There may be benefit to your neighbors though, by reduced interference.  The biggest benefit of having 2.4 active is that it penetrates walls far better than 5 GHz.  This is what allows Orbi to provide a usable signal across an entire 5,000 SF home (or whatever the current claim is).  You would not get that with 5 GHz only, unless you had an AP in almost every room.

 

One thing few people seem to get is that Orbi uses 2.4 for the backhaul.  Even when you could "turn off" 2.4 in the old firmware, Orbi still maintained a hidden SSID on 2.4, so the radio was still in use, just not as visible. Perhaps the radio frequency utilization is less though, with no clients associated.


Okay, thanks. Is there a way to tell which devices are using which frequencies?

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 277 of 810
st_shaw
Master

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

There is a NVRAM setting you can make via telnet that will show what band your devices are connected to, either 2.4 or 5. Other than that, you would need to figure out the MAC address of the radios in Orbi (using inSSIDer or similar) and check each client to see what MAC it attached to.  The NVRAM setting used to show if a device was connected to the router or sat, but this was removed.

 

See my comment on this page: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/hidden-features/td-p/1149584

Message 278 of 810
ArtLee
Apprentice

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


@st_shaw wrote:

There is a NVRAM setting you can make via telnet that will show what band your devices are connected to, either 2.4 or 5. Other than that, you would need to figure out the MAC address of the radios in Orbi (using inSSIDer or similar) and check each client to see what MAC it attached to.  The NVRAM setting used to show if a device was connected to the router or sat, but this was removed.

 

See my comment on this page: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/hidden-features/td-p/1149584


This sounds over my head... I don't need to know badly enough to try either method. Thanks.

Message 279 of 810
captain_phaser
Apprentice

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


@st_shaw wrote:

One thing few people seem to get is that Orbi uses 2.4 for the backhaul.  Even when you could "turn off" 2.4 in the old firmware, Orbi still maintained a hidden SSID on 2.4, so the radio was still in use, just not as visible. Perhaps the radio frequency utilization is less though, with no clients associated.


I'm on 1.11.0.20 mainly because the Orbi's band steering is completely unreliable for me. With the 2.4Ghz radio off I don't have to worry about getting stuck on the 2.4Ghz band (which performs worse everywhere on my property).

 

Observing the Orbi in inSSIDer and a Wifi Analyzer app does show the 2.4Ghz backhaul from the router as active, but it is very sporadic (same with 5GHz). I recall a thread about this issue, but it doesn't look like the reason behind the signal drops was conclusively found. When the radio is active, there are 3 total 2.4Ghz signals visible (1 router + 1 sat + 1 backhaul), with it "off", only 1 is visible. I would hope that this means less frequency usage.

 

With the 2.4 radio never really "off" I don't understand why the ability to disable the primary bands was removed. A true changelog would note the reasoning for this and other features removed.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 280 of 810
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

@ArtLee yes good question, it really boils down to your needs, requirements and your surrounding environment.  Speaking for my scenario not having the option to adjust the radio power is detetremental to my environment where there is considerable amount of interference already.  people have the misconception the most powerful wireless router is the best not true, if everybody in your neighborhood gets the most powerful wireless router without adjusting the radio to stay within the confines of your home or area where you need wifi then just blasting at full strength down 5 houses each direction does not server any purpose and does not help anyone including yourself just polluting and adding to interference.

 

I am very disappointed Netgear took away the ability to adjust radio power as my scenario does not require 2.4GHz all my devices use 5Ghz and distance and speeds are more than adequate for me so I want the ability to turn off or ar a min be able to reduce the non used radio power down to 25% like I used to be able to as a common courtesy to those around me.

 

most neighbours are now doing this if there scenario allows it we started this neighborhood wide effort to get everyone to adjust the power on their radios to fit their needs, some have done it some can't depending on individual need.

 

netgear with latest firmware have taken away the ability to adjust radio power to be the is a step back not forward, very myopic vision of Firmware capability.

Message 281 of 810
st_shaw
Master

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

@captain_phaserI have looked into the hidden signals in great detail. The reason the hidden signals look sporadic is because of the way your WiFi analyzer samples hidden SSIDs--it sniffs packets. Your WiFi adapter can only sniff on one channel and one band at a time.  It's not a sporadic signal--you are simply missing some of the packets because your WiFi software is busy changing channels and bands on the adapter.

 

If you want to see what's truly happening, you need to lock your WiFi adapter to a single band and channel.  This can be done with Acrylic WiFi Professional with an adapter that supports their NDIS driver, such as the NETGEAR A6200 v1.

 

The other thing this software shows you is that the satellite is connected to the router as a client on the hidden 2.4 channel (and thus passing traffic.) The reason your scanner stops showing the sats when the 2.4 band is "off" is because your scanning software is not designed to show any client traffic, just AP traffic.

Message 282 of 810
ArtLee
Apprentice

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

Until I started watching this forum I had no idea you could adjust power level or even turn off transmitters. I think most of my neighbors know very little about computers, much less about wifi. I seem to be the neighborhood cosultant on iPads and laptops. And I obviously don't know what I don't know! 

Message 283 of 810
eggraces
Aspirant

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

Hi, I just wanted to post on here as it seems most people have the RBK50.  I have the RBR40 and RBS40 router/satellite pair and wanted to report the problems here too.

 

Like some others posting here, the wifi on some of my devices (chromecast, google nexus 6p and iphone 6) intermittently drop, or more specifically remain connected to the wifi with no throughput.  Oddly, my nest cam doesn't seem to drop at all...

 

I bought this to improve my wifi from my cable provider and so far it's been worse.  I can't believe nobody from netgear has reponded to this thread to even acknowledge it...

 

To anyone thinking of buying this router and is reading this STAY AWAY

Message 284 of 810
gbjackson
Star

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

Maybe they're all too busy on the phone.  I was holding for 3 hours last night trying to resolve the satellite disconnect issue (for the second time - Netgear had my return my original satellite).  Never got connected to Netgear's Orbi support folks.

 

Came here while I was waiting, rolled back the firmware after reading this, and now it all works.

 

Called again this morning, the Orbi support people acknowledged an issue with the new firmware, but were pretty adamant that a manual install would solve the problem (it doesn't).

Message 285 of 810
cyberprashant
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


@Butch1326 wrote:

To stop the Orbi from installing the updated firmware automatically follow the steps below.  

 

Perform these step after you downgraded the firmware to a prior release.

 

1) Launch your favorite web browser and go to <Router IP Address>/debug.htm

 

2) Login <username> <password> when prompted

 

3) Check Enable Telnet

 

4) Start a Telnet session.  I use Putty.  Enter the <Router IP Address> Telnet is using port 23

 

5) You can skip this step if you like.  I am calling it out for illustration purposes only...  

Type nvram show | grep auto_* <ENTER>

You will see a list similar to this:

root@RBR50:/# nvram show | grep auto_
vpn_access_mode=auto
wl_auto_antenna=1
set_auto_agreement=0
orbi_auto_upgrade=1
ipv6_autoConfig_dns_assign=0
ipv6_autoConfig_dns1=
ipv6_autoConfig_dns2=
upnp_enable_autoScan=0
ipv6_auto_dns_assign=0
bas_auto_conn_flag=0
orbi_auto_upg=0
autofw_port0=
ipv6_auto_dns1=
ipv6_auto_dns2=
qos_auto_bandwidth=0
green_enable_autorefresh_status=0
enable_dev_auto_refresh=1
wl_rate=auto
auto_check_for_upgrade=1
auto_update=1
root@RBR50:/# root@RBR50:/#

 

The 3 configurations highlighted above you will want to update the value from =1 to =0

orbi_auto_upgrade=1

auto_check_for_upgrade=1
auto_update=1

 

6) To update run the following commands:

nvram set orbi_auto_upgrade=0  <ENTER> (no spaces after set)

nvram set auto_check_for_upgrade=0 <ENTER> (no spaces after set)

nvram set auto_update=0 <ENTER> (no spaces after set)

 

7) Type the following commands to confirm the 3 configurations are set to =0

nvram show | grep orbi_auto_upgrade <ENTER>

nvram show | grep auto_check_for_upgrade <ENTER>

nvram show | grep auto_update <ENTER>

 

8) After you confirmed the 3 configuration values are set to =0 then type nvram commit <ENTER> (this step will save the changes)

 

9) Type exit to terminate the telnet session

 

10) Go back to the <Router IP Address>/debug.htm web page and uncheck Enable Telnet

 

Please note within a day or so the Orbi will know there is an updated firmware release available but it will not automatically install it.  If you do go back into a Telnet session after the Orbi knows there is an updated firmware release the configuration orbi_auto_upgrade will have a value greater than 1.  That is okay.  Do not change the value back to =0


 

^^^^ This works great.  Couple tips

 

1. There's another parameter not listed:

orbi_auto_upg 

orbi_auto_upgrade

Follow the same instructions as above for this parameter. 

 

2. Also download the downgraded firmware and have it all ready.  

3. load the instructions of page 5 of this thread in separate tabs and have your telnet client ready

4.  Then disconnect the wan side (cable modem side) of the orbi so it doesn't immediately try to download the new firmware post-downgrade (you will lose internet connectivity so make sure you have a telnet client, firmware and these instructions from page 5 all loaded up in a browser ahead of time)

5. Be very quick in the following procedures: a) downgrade the firmware (I did the satellties first, then router) followed by the b) enable telnet in the orbilogin.com/debug.htm as above and c) issue the actual telnet commands.  After everything is sucessful hook wan/cable modem side ethernet cable back in a few minutes later. 

 

Netgear hurry up and fix this!!

 

Message 286 of 810
cyberprashant
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

In addition to the above telnet procedures i put in a block for downloads.netgear.com under advanced >> security as mentioned in this thread. Possibly both are needed?
Message 287 of 810
Glenee
Apprentice

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

This requires the user to go into something most should not be in, like a service menu on a TV. They need to just put a button ON/OFF for auto updates. This is so easy a fix for them I just can't believe we are even still discussing this.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 288 of 810
JMU1998
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

It is clearly evident the vision of where Firmware is goings-on force us to be one shoe fit all.  The ability to not auto update and ability to not adjust radio power or turn off radio not needed in one's scenario all these are options are critical for flexibility to individual needs as every person's environment, needs and scenario is different.

Message 289 of 810
cyberprashant
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


@Glenee wrote:

This requires the user to go into something most should not be in, like a service menu on a TV. They need to just put a button ON/OFF for auto updates. This is so easy a fix for them I just can't believe we are even still discussing this.


Totally Agree!! I've owned 3 other netgear routers and they come with a lot of different options and configurations - I'm hoping Netgear is planning the same for Orbi.   

 

Also of note: I setup another Orbi for a family member and noticed terrible speeds.  I turned off 20/40 Co-existence and the speeds went back to full speed.  (Beamforming and Mu-MIMO off and downgraded to 1.11.0.20.

Message 290 of 810
Replevin
Star

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

Came home from a short business trip to discover that half of the house had no WiFi coverage because the satellites auto-updated and therefore were not functioning.  Spouse was not happy and I got an earful.

 

I can't believe we are still discussing, two weeks later, how to prevent the router from auto-updating the firmware.  I have very little prior experience with Netgear, but I will certainly avoid these products in the future.  As someone who is often asked for tech advice, that means I will make sure I recommend against the purchase of Netgear products.  

 

Why is this firmware still set to auto-update when there are such obvious problems?  If someone is not having problems with the firmware, they can keep it.  But to force everyone else to update to a faulty firmware that causes problems is beyond me and inconsistent with any troubleshooting approach that I've ever witnessed.  

 

I would encourage users to post reviews on Amazon and also support other reviewers who have posted about this problem (and the lack of competent technical support).  I think that is likely one of the few avenues for feedback anymore.  

 

 

 

 

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 291 of 810
Sangwich
Star

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

I blame the project manager(s) on the poor execution. Although the poor quality on the firmware releases might be the fault of the coders but it can also be a fault on the hardware design causing issues. It's the product managers deciding what features get released. In the business world, product managers are considered a bigger asset than the coders but coders look down at product managers making decisions who make poor choices due to lack of technical knowledge.

The current situation seems like this exact senario where the product managers have no clue on the basic requirements based on the features they limit or represented to the users. I see these kind of senario all the time and it's very frustrating, especially when the product managers ignore the coder's advice. It's either this or the team has poor resources. But I highly doubt the latter senario to take place in company as big as Netgear on a product with high expectation and reviews. 

Seeing firmwares that breaks what is fixed to fix what is broken being released makes it seem like they are not doing much QA and seeing they are releasing betas to users on the forum, it seems they rely more on the users here than their QA team, if they even exist. 

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 292 of 810

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

Many disconnections since the latest firmware deployed, is that a joke ?

 

Please work on our Ethernet Backhaul feature you PROMISED us instead of ruining a working firmware with **bleep**ty updates

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 293 of 810
MacrossMike
Apprentice

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

Well, I am officially 100% done with my Orbi RBK-50 as of today.

 

I got sick of dealing with the frequent unwanted automatic updates and all the problems v1.12.0.18 was causing with non-functional Orbi satellites, curtailed WiFi speeds, and high processor usage and started to audition replacements.  The Orbi was a contender on the older v.1.11.0.20 firmware, but on v1.12.0.18 both the Linksys Velop and D-Link Covr knock it into a cocked hat.  The Velop may have reduced maximum WiFi speed because it doesn't have a dedicated backhaul, but it's a hell of a lot more stable right out of the box.  D-Link's Covr makes a mockery of the Orbi by being every bit as fast as a properly-functioning Orbi RBK-50, but with none of the stability problems, a better-designed user interface, and day one support for ethernet backhaul.

 

Needless to say, I will be retiring my Orbi system in favor of the D-Link Covr.  Maybe once Netgear gets the firmware straightened out I'll fob it off on one of my brothers when they need a wireless setup or something.  It cost too much to simply throw out.

Message 294 of 810
mkenny28
Apprentice

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

First my Sprint S8 Plus was disconnecting when I moved rooms and now it is my main laptop, A Surface Book. But with the Surface Book I am literally just sitting on my couch on YouTube. Every 5 minutes or so the video will buffer, then my WiFi icon has an exclamation point, and eventually it starts back up (30 seconds or so) but after that it will just keep happening. My patience is very thin at this point. Fix it, Netgear!

Message 295 of 810
raven_au
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

I too have started having a wireless connection problems with 1.12.0.18.

 

The problem though is that Netgear probably can't do anything to fix it and are likley waiting on Qualcomm for wireless driver updates.

Message 296 of 810
Seattleite
Guide

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

For those who have downgraded (and changed nvram settings to prevent the auto-update) - what firmware did you settle on? it seems like a lot of people are reverting to 1.11.0.20, but I was wondering if one of the even earlier ones might be better? (I have an RBK53, i.e., the Costco router + 2 satellites, and neither satellite is connecting as a satellite)

 

Cheers

Message 297 of 810
cyberprashant
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion

 

@eattleite wrote:

For those who have downgraded (and changed nvram settings to prevent the auto-update) - what firmware did you settle on? it seems like a lot of people are reverting to 1.11.0.20, but I was wondering if one of the even earlier ones might be better? (I have an RBK53, i.e., the Costco router + 2 satellites, and neither satellite is connecting as a satellite)

 

Cheers


Costco RBK 53 here - 2 sets in our family - both rock stable on 1.11.0.20 downgrade.  (also Mu-MIMO and beamforming off by default and not sure if you need to do but disabled 20/40 co-existence under advanced wifi settings).   

Message 298 of 810
cyberprashant
Luminary

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


@raven_au wrote:

I too have started having a wireless connection problems with 1.12.0.18.

 

The problem though is that Netgear probably can't do anything to fix it and are likley waiting on Qualcomm for wireless driver updates.


Doubt, since its rock stable on this FW 1.11.0.20 after downgrade (see page 5 and comments elsewhere here) not sure this is a Qualcomm driver issue??  

Message 299 of 810
Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Firmware V1.12.0.18 Discussion


@cyberprashant wrote:

@raven_au wrote:

I too have started having a wireless connection problems with 1.12.0.18.

 

The problem though is that Netgear probably can't do anything to fix it and are likley waiting on Qualcomm for wireless driver updates.


Doubt, since its rock stable on this FW 1.11.0.20 after downgrade (see page 5 and comments elsewhere here) not sure this is a Qualcomm driver issue??  


For some, it is rock solid on 1.12.0.16-18 whereas the orbi was unusable on 1.11.0.20. 

Message 300 of 810
Top Contributors
Announcements