Guest Network Available both Secured and Unsecured.

[tony_ngear]

Just an FYI for other users.

During set up I found an unsecured Guest Network in addition to the secured Guest Network – same SSID (same MAC and IP as well) but no password needed to log on and have internet access. (Prior to set up I factory reset the router and both satellites, twice each just to be sure, using the reset button on the back to get a clean installation after preliminary setup activities last week). This only occurred when satellites were powered up - one satellite was connected via wireless, the other connected to the router via CAT6. The unsecured Guest Network was available irrespective of which satellite was powered up and typically took several minutes to appear after applying power - probably a result of the inordinately long time for the router and satellites to sync, stabilise etc. The router and satellites had the latest firmware installed (v2.1.4.16). As I have 90 days complimentary support I called Netgear. The lady I spoke to was very helpful, I observed that I had seen a similar report on the Netgear Community in Nov-17 and had followed the same process that resolved the issue for that customer. Unfortunately that did not work for me so we spent the best part of 2 hours resetting, connecting, disconnecting etc, all to no avail. Netgear were unable to offer any solution other than downgrade the FW (not acceptable to me) or return and refund/replace. BTW, another user reported a similar issue back in Jan-18 and the resolution then was multiple resets but I did two resets prior to set up and then reset each satellite again during the investigation with Netgear with no impact. Maybe Netgear could investigate the efficacy of the reset process? Anyway, you may want to check your WiFi for anything similar. 

[FURRYe38]

Was this with Guest Network enabled or disabled? 

I didn't see any of this on my friends 50 series when I set this up for him:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

[tony_ngear]

This occurred with the Guest Network enabled with SSID visible. When the Guest Network is not enabled the Unsecured Guest Network is not evident on WiFi (obviously the Secured Guest Network also not available).

[FURRYe38]

@DarrenM

@Blanca_O

[st_shaw]

Sounds strange. I don't quite understand what you were seeing though.

By MAC I assume you mean the hexadecimal BSSID, like a0:04:60:16:5b:a0?

You said you found these networks during setup. How exactly did you find these networks? What were you looking at?

The BSSID and the SSID define the network, so I don't see how it's possible to have two networks with the same SSID and BSSID.  How did you determine there were two networks operating?

Are you using Apple devices when you encounter this issue?

[tony_ngear]

The MAC I referred to was the MAC address of the device as listed under the network details on my mobile which I used to observe the available SSID and log on.

Networks found by looking for available wireless networks on my mobile and tablet (both android, no apple devices in use) after enabling Guest Network.

I determined there were two networks operating by looking on my mobile and tablet to see what SSID were available after enabling Guest Network. When I logged on to the Secured Guest Network (which had the expected SSID defined at set up) using the defined password I recorded the network details (MAC address, IP address etc). After logging off I then logged on to the Unsecured Guest Network, which had the same SSID as the Secured Guest Network, no password necessary, and similarly recorded the network details. 

See the following as well, other users have seen this:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR50-guest-access-showing-unsecured-network/m-p/1421945

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/New-Unsecured-networks-on-Orbi-RBK50/td-p/1481297

[tony_ngear]

Here is some additional data.

As I mentioned previously, when I said that the MAC address was the same for the Secured Guest Network as the Unsecured Guest Network, that was the MAC address as shown under network details on my mobile when I logged in to either of these. See below for the answer to your question on BSSID.

As an overview, I have attached a screen shot from my tablet of the three available networks, the Secured Main WiFi, the Secured Guest Network and the Unsecured Guest Network. I have blanked out most of the SSID just from a security prespective but rest assured the Secured and Unsecured Guest Networks have exactly the same SSID.

Attached are some screen shots of the Secured and Unsecured Guest Networks as viewed from a WiFi analyzer. I have also blanked out the first three octets, once again from a security perpsective, but these are the same for the Secured and Unsecured Guest Networks.

[st_shaw]

From your charts, I see you have a router and two satellites.  Look at the BSSIDs.  Each Orbi device will broadcast two SSIDs, one for 2.4 GHz and one for 5 GHz.  The 5 GHz BSSID is the same, except the last octet is higher by two.  For example, you have 51/53,  97/99, and 88/8A in your configuration. I'm guessing that 88/8A is your router.

The Orbi router and each satellite broadcast SSIDs independent of one another.  Based on the screenshots, one Orbi unit (BSSIDs 88/8A) was broadcasting the secured network.  The other two orbi units were broadcasting the unsecured network (51/53 and 97/99).

This has a simple explanation: your satellites' and router's configuration were not synched with each other. This is also supported by your comment that the issue only appeared when either of the satellites was powered on.

The question is why did this happen? Something interfered with the satellites synching. Probably a connectivity issue--too far apart or a problem with the wired backhaul.

Both the threads you linked were marked as solved. One by disabling the guest network and rebooting.  The other by resetting the Orbi units.

I know you worked this on the phone with support, but if you didn't do something to address the connectivity issue, the resets would be fruitless.

If the issue persists I would bring the router and two satellites into the same room, leave them on wireless backhaul, and repeat the setup process, or reset if required.  Once they are working, you can return them to their installed positions. It might also help to setup the satellites  one at a time, with the other satellite off.

[tony_ngear]

On the initial set up, the router and the satellites were in the same room, once they were showing as connected with good backhaul I then moved them to their locations and one is on a CAT6 connection to the router.

Prior to the set up (before contacting Support) both satellites and the router were reset (twice) using the reset button on the rear. When fault finding with Support, the router on wireless backhaul was put back in the room with the router and reset prior to syncing using the sync buttons on the router/satellite. We didn't bring in the satellite on CAT6 and reset that, it didnt seem necessary as it was previosuly sync'd and then connected by CAT6. Maybe that was an oversight but surely a wired connection would rule out sync issues?

I have a couple of days to determine whether or not to send this back to Amazon so if I get time I will reset satellites and resync to router.

Notwithstanding that, the fact that the backhaul showed OK and there were no error messages is a cause for concern. From your feedback I would surmise that a sync issue in future could recreate this problem and the user would be non the wiser (without error messages) unless they happened to check their wireless netywork and see an unsecured network. Do you agree or do you categorically rule that out as a possibility?

[st_shaw]

I don't think you would see this issue again once the system is configured and stable.  I expect the config could only get out of sync when changing settings on the router.

I dont know whether you can rely on wired backhaul to reliably propagate settings. I don't use wired backhaul myself, but from posts on here it sounds like the systems boot and try wireless first before using wired backhaul.  Sounds like wired still has a few kinks for some users.  Wired backhaul was not present in Orbi at the beginning, and I don't think it was a planned feature. It was only implemented because so many users requested it. Perhaps it hasn't been tested thoroughly enough yet to catch all possible scenarios.

[tony_ngear]

I ran some further tests.

I turned Guest Network off on the Router, reset both Satellites and then associated them with the Router ensuing that the Ring LED was Blue before it turned off. One of the Satellites was a bit more troublesome than the other, taking several attempts. Interestingly this was the Satellite purchased as a Satellite to add to the RBK50 Router/Satellite combo. Anyway, so having done that I moved both Satellites to their respective locations around the house, powered up and left them both connected to the Router wirelessly, once again ensuring that the Ring LED on each Satellite was Blue before it turned off.

I logged in to the Router direcly from my PC and confirmed that the Router saw a Good connection to each Satellite and then left it for 5 mins to ensure everything was stabilised. I turned on the Guest Network, let everything stabilise again for 5 mins and then checked on my mobile and the errant Unsecured Guest Network was not showing available. 

Next step was to connect one of the Satellites to the Router via CAT6. I turned off power to the Satellite, made the necessary connections, powered back up again and left it to stabilise, once again again ensuring that the Ring LED on the Satellite was Blue before it turned off. I then checked on my mobile and the errant Unsecured Guest Network was  showing available. 

Incidentally, the Satellite connected via CAT6 was not the same as I used for the same test over the weekend so the problem is not associated with a specific Satellite. In addition there was nothing else connected to that Satellite.

So despite ensuring a solid link from the Router to each Satellite before moving the Satellites to their respective locations, and ensuring a solid link from the Router to those Satellites in those locations, the problem is still there when one Satellite is wired to the Router.

Note that I did not reset the Router, that was reset before the tests over the weekend and it was able to verify the links to the Satellites and sync today without flagging any issues. There shouldn't be a need to keep resetting everything to get a good installation.

As you pointed out in your last post, perhaps the Satellite-Router wired configuration hasn't been tested thoroughly enough yet to catch all possible scenarios.

In the meantime I would suggest that any users reading this and using wired connections from a Satellite to the Router check their wireless networks just to see if they have any Unsecured Guest Networks (assuming it has been enabled). I can't believe I am the only person to see this.

I regard this defect is unacceptable and I don't feel comfortable having an open connection, even if "Allow guests to see each other and access my local network" is disabled. There is clearly no timeline for Netgear to resolve this so unless Netgear have any immediate suggestions I will be returning to Amazon for a refund. 

Notwithstanding that, many thanks for your feedback and suggestions.

[FURRYe38]

Possible that you may have a faulty system or satelllite unit which maybe isolated and not seen by others. This system should be looked at by NG engineering team.

@DarrenM