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Apprentice

Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

My 12 year old is here on vacation staying with me.

We decided to play Xbox last night, she was wifi connection (likely connected to the upstairs 2nd satellite), I'm hardwired to the main router unit in the basement, 2 floors away.

 

I have Comcast cable 300Mbps down/12Mbps up - plenty.

 

The problem started when she had to update a game - I was chatting with someone using the xbox party chat feature and my voice was extremely choppy, this lasted for a few minutes and I realized that it got better when the update had completed on my daughters xbox.

 

Checked and double-checked everything was ok with Comcast - speed tests all checked out, 9ms latency and expected speed with no packet loss.

 

The Orbi seems to allow both consoles to have Open NAT types - this is a good thing that was a hassle in routers years ago.
My Xbox was connected before she even turned hers on and remained 'Open' NAT.

 

She was only downloading a file, what could have caused such a massive impact that essentially was game breaking for me?

 

And why isn't there QOS options yet on the Orbi? QOS is not a friggin link to speedtest.net !! LOL.

It seems that Orbi has serious QOS issues and yet there's no options to control bandwidth to connected devices?

And why would a wifi device suddenly appear to take prioroty over a wired device ? 
If there's not option to control how data is shared, what is the Orbi software doing? Is it just giving priority to whatever device it feels like?

How is that in any way a good thing for a $400 flagship device?

 

What crack are you guys smoking?

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 1 of 11
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Guru

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

You can review this and see if he helps you:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

I set this up for my friend who has 3 xbox consoles, two are gamers, one is a streamer.

 

I have two xbox consoles on my system. Zero issues with gaming or XBL chat. We both game with the friend mentioned above and with others. Gaming and Chat works for us.


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 2 of 11
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Apprentice

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

Thanks very much for the reply!

I will check it out.

 

REALLY want to love the Orbi, but Netgear just seems to keep dropping the ball

Message 3 of 11
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Guru

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

How big is your home?

Distance between the router and satellite(s)?

Is MIMO, Daisy Chain and Fast Roaming enabled on the router? I would disable these, apply and reboot both router and satellite.

 

Xbox gaming preferres wired LAN connections as well...Possible that the one console is not connecting to the 5Ghz radio on the Orbi rather it maybe connecting to 2.4ghz...

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 4 of 11
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Apprentice

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

When you talk of setting static DNS to 1.1.1.1 and 9.9.9.9 are you talking about the "Use these DNS addresses" instead of get automatically?
I understand the 1.1.1.1 is CloudFlare, but shouldn't the secondary DNS be 1.0.0.1?

What is the 9.9.9.9?

 

Other than that you just increased the IP address table, but who needs more than 100 devices?

Not sure why this would have any effect?

 

I have created DHCP (static - LAN only of course) IP addresses for all my devices so that they always have the same IP address.

I also did this so that I could forward ports for Xbox Live, but have been reading that this isn't necessary any longer if UPNP is enabled?

Message 5 of 11
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Apprentice

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

Home is 6500sq ft. I recently enabled these Beamforming and MIMO and fast roaming options and they don't seem to make any difference, good or bad

Message 6 of 11
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Apprentice

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

Why would you disable daisy-chain backhaul?

Both my satellites are in locations next to ethernet, so they have 1GB ethernet for backhaul istead of relying on the wifi band normally used for this.

Or is the daisy-chain backhaul something else that I do not understand that would mean disabling it would be benficial?

Message 7 of 11
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Guru

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection


@globespy wrote:

When you talk of setting static DNS to 1.1.1.1 and 9.9.9.9 are you talking about the "Use these DNS addresses" instead of get automatically? YES.
I understand the 1.1.1.1 is CloudFlare, but shouldn't the secondary DNS be 1.0.0.1? You can.

What is the 9.9.9.9? Quad Nine is another DNS service recommended by an acquaintance of mine.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad9

 

Other than that you just increased the IP address table, but who needs more than 100 devices? No, the pool was decreased. Default NG pool is 192.168.1.2 thru .254. I use .100 thru .200. You can make it just about any size as long as it fits the needs and device count you have.

Not sure why this would have any effect?

 

I have created DHCP (static - LAN only of course) IP addresses for all my devices so that they always have the same IP address. You mean Reservation IPs right? Reservation IPs are set ON the router. Static IPs are set on the devices.

 

I also did this so that I could forward ports for Xbox Live, but have been reading that this isn't necessary any longer if UPNP is enabled? Disable any PF rules for using XBL. uPnP is only needed for this. It's what I and others use for all xbox console configurations. XBL doesn't need any PF rules. Also set NAT Filter to OPEN if you have two or more consoles that game online. This helps get OPEN  NAT on the dashboard and in same game played on both consoles. If you don't do much multiplayer gaming, then you can leave the NAT Filter at SECURE.

http://badmodems.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21&sid=4fb09991e3e33dadc1595014a38bf269

 

If you have LAN connections at the remote locations where the satellites are where the wire there goes back to the router, it would be preferred to use the wired backhaul for the satelites instead of wireless.

 

My home is 5000sq ft, main router is at one end up stairs and the satellite is at the opposite end. 40 feet in between. Great coverage and performance, both wireless and wired. Mines wire connected which I prefer. So is my friends system.

 

Beamforming is good to have enabled. MIMO is if you have MIMO supporting devices. Daisy Chain is for two or more satellites piggy backing wirelessly of the other. Not needed for wired back haul. Fast Roaming is also kind of dependent upon client handling and design of roaming around the house and the ability to switch wireless sources whlie traversing area and signal coverage. Some device aren't designed well where others maybe more in this area. I only have Beamforming enabled for my system.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 8 of 11
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Apprentice

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

Thanks again Furry!

 

There's pro's and cons to the setting a device static IP, the main pro is that if your router's DHCP software is sketchy.

Whilst DHCP 'can' change the IP address, I've never seen it happen and the advantages of having all device IP's controlled centrally has always been more appealing to me. DHCP reservations are just 'safer' and avoid potential boob trap scenarios that can happen with devie specific static IP addresses when things go wrong.

But I do see why some people would do it, if it works then it works.

That being said, I'm not aware of any reasons why this would change a specific device from suddenly hogging too much bandwidth and interfering with others. That's a QOS issue.

 

I will disable the PF rules - thanks for that! May well have been the issue as both Xbox consoles use the same ports and you can't assign the same ports to be forwarded for 2 different consoles.

 

I need to find some way to monitor what's going on in realtime if this happens again.

 

Why Netgear have yet to implement a QOS and device/bandwidth management option on the Orbi is just bewildering. 
We should start a petition, if anything people going through forums trying to decide on a new mesh type device (Orbi isn't really mesh) may stumble across this and go buy something else. Had I know, I likely wouldn't have had the Orbi on my shortlist.

Only way to make a company do something is to impact their profits/public reputation and perception of quality or lawsuits.

 

Sad, but the only thing that makes them do anything quickly is money, as in losing it or the risk of losing it.

Message 9 of 11
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Apprentice

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

PS - why would you use both Cloudflare and Quad Nine at the same time?

I didn't think you could do this? 

 

Message 10 of 11
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Guru

Re: Horrible Performance issues with Multi-users - no it's not my Internet connection

Theres no reason why you can't. Flexibility maybe. You don't have to run all same DNS services.

 

Static IPs has it uses. I recommend Statics for devices that don't need much internet or management, devices lilke, printers, NAS, controllers and cameras and some phones maybe.

 

What your seeing maybe a result of incorrect configuration as well. I don't see any issues with one gamer gaming, me streaming and others doing general stuff. I'm on a 200/10 service here.

 

I think NG and some other Mfrs are getting away from granular QoS features and trying to go for a more automatic QoS and prioritization mechanism. Some average home users just want to set up some thing and have it run with very little user interaction. So this maybe a result of that. Just one thought though. Who knows what goes on at NG HQ.

 

You shouldn't have any xbox issues once you set up some reservations for the consoles, disable PF configurations and just enabled uPnP. ALso to besure the consoles are clear of any networking mis-configurations, hold down the power button until it shuts off. This does a soft reset on the console and clears any networking caches out. I would do this after you set up the reserved IPs for them and apply it to the router.

 

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
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