Reply

How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Deihmos
Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

The 2.4 is much slower and causes buffering on the nvidia shield so obviously it is doing a poor job at deciding what to connect to. Also experiencing disconnects. I am returning it. 

Message 226 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).
If you updated to recent FW v.210, try enabling Daisy Chain. Some have mentioned that this seems to be working in reverse order, enabling means disabled actually. Hoping NG support can have a look at this. So try this out as well.
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Firmware-2-2-1-210-and-connection-problems-Skybell/m-p/1649275...


@Deihmos wrote:

The 2.4 is much slower and causes buffering on the nvidia shield so obviously it is doing a poor job at deciding what to connect to. Also experiencing disconnects. I am returning it. 




My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 227 of 854
metabubble
Guide

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@schumaku wrote:

@Deihmos wrote:

Sometimes my 5g devices are connected at 2.4g an issue I don't have with my other router because it has a seperate ssid. I have to keep disconnecting and connecting to get it to connect at 5g. That's just ridiculous for such a costly router. 


No. It's a very clever and smart decision by your clients to connect to the best AP (on router or satellite) and using the best band for the current connection situation, and change accordingly when moved and roamed around - a process that works pretty much seamless thanks to 802.11k. There is no reason to connect and stick on a poor 5 GHz connection if 2.4 GHz does provide better signal, better reach, more coverage, ...  There is no reason, absolutley none to hard link a device to a specific radio, AP, or band.


This is actually plain wrong. There is nothing smart about how Orbi does this. In my home, where at every square inch I have sufficient signal for 150+Mbit/s, without separating the SSIDs, my devices would constantly fall down to 2.4 GHz, which is congested, narrow and slow. Worse, when connecting to 5GHz again, they would momentarily lose the Wifi connection and drop everything they were doing (network-wise)

 

Not letting the devices choose drastically improved my experience, now having 30+ devices on my 1 router 2 satellite setup is seamless and fast. Before separating them, I was ready to return them.

 

And a last note: With 80MHz width, a poor 5GHz connection is probably still faster than that slightly less poor 2.4GHz connection that you will have at that same spot. However, if you have such spots in your home, you should probably just get another satellite. (and switch to separate SSIDs)

Message 228 of 854
Shinedown
Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Been following this thread but am yet to split my 5/2.4 channels, in the vain hope that an update my make this accessible via the UI.

Anyway, that doesn't look like it's going to happen so I came back only to read that some are saying it may not work anymore RBK50s with the latest firmware, is that definitely the case?

I've waited this long as generally band steering is working like it should be for me, but I have a black spot in the house where orbi basically can't choose between the two frequencies and as a result, my connection constantly drops in this specific area. Problem is I'm often in this area and relocation of the router/satellite is not really an option.

Anyone else experience this type of issue? Anyway of fixing it without splitting the channels if this no longer works?

Thanks for your help
Message 229 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

What FW is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

 

If you updated to recent FW v.210, try enabling Daisy Chain. Some have mentioned that this seems to be working in reverse order, enabling means disabled actually.


@Shinedown wrote:
Been following this thread but am yet to split my 5/2.4 channels, in the vain hope that an update my make this accessible via the UI.

Anyway, that doesn't look like it's going to happen so I came back only to read that some are saying it may not work anymore RBK50s with the latest firmware, is that definitely the case?

I've waited this long as generally band steering is working like it should be for me, but I have a black spot in the house where orbi basically can't choose between the two frequencies and as a result, my connection constantly drops in this specific area. Problem is I'm often in this area and relocation of the router/satellite is not really an option.

Anyone else experience this type of issue? Anyway of fixing it without splitting the channels if this no longer works?

Thanks for your help

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 230 of 854
Shinedown
Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Thanks,

Lots to check and it's getting late here in the UK, but to briefly answer some of the points:

Firmware is 210, using AP mode, daisy chain and fast roaming off, mu-mimo on. IPV6 greyed out.

I manually set my 2.4ghz channel using a WiFi analyzer and I also ensure there's no overlap with ZigBee radio, currently my 2.4 is set to 1, 5ghz to 36.

Satellite and router have 1 floor between then and are approx 8m apart, backhaul is 'good'

20/40 coexistence is enabled, primarily not to be a bad neighbour from what I've read about this setting, if I'm remembering correctly some say it's 'not on' to switch this off? Could this potentially help?
Message 231 of 854
Deihmos
Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

It still works on the latest firmware.  This was a life saver. I don’t want the router choosing what signal to connect to. I would have returned them if I couldn’t separate. Still have not decided if I should keep them or not. 

Message 232 of 854
schumaku
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@Deihmos wrote:

I don’t want the router choosing what signal to connect to.


Nonsense. It's the wireless client station deciding, based on information collected from the "air", based on information the wireless access points are distributing about thier neighbourhood (Radio Resource Management, 802.11k), in case there is an AP change required it's going to happen virtually seamless thanks to 802.11r enable seamless Basic Service Set (BSS) transitions - at least as long as the wireless load of a AP radio and/or the wireless AP uplink isn't segregated. And that last point is unlikely happening in most home and SOHO environments, unless there is a big wireless party in one section of your home.

Message 233 of 854
Schmak01
Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

That might be how it’s supposed to work, but it isn’t the case IRL. My Orbi will always default to 2.4 if the signal for 5 is less than 90% even though at 70-60% I get better speeds off the 5 than the 2.4. This isn’t isolated to one device, this is across phones, laptops, IoT, you name it. Separating the bands into two SSID’s was the only way I could prevent it across the board.
Message 234 of 854
cmgreenman
Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Still works. Had to do it last night because I had to switch channels. For some reason Auto keeps selecting channel 6 along with every other router in my neighborhood. Unfortunately changing channels and saving in the UI removes the split SSID. I ran through the steps again and it works fine.

My advice is just do it. Reverting is simple and it really is painless to make the mod if you follow the steps in post #1. If you don't like it simply change a wireless setting (SSID, channel, etc) and save it in the UI and the change is undone.
Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 235 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

You can always set manual channels on the Orbi as well if AUTO doesnt' seem to pick other channels. Manual channels maybe preferred in some environments. Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.


@cmgreenman wrote:
Still works. Had to do it last night because I had to switch channels. For some reason Auto keeps selecting channel 6 along with every other router in my neighborhood. Unfortunately changing channels and saving in the UI removes the split SSID. I ran through the steps again and it works fine.

My advice is just do it. Reverting is simple and it really is painless to make the mod if you follow the steps in post #1. If you don't like it simply change a wireless setting (SSID, channel, etc) and save it in the UI and the change is undone.

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 236 of 854
cmgreenman
Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

That's exactly what I did :-). The problem is once you save it in the web UI, it reverts your split SSID and and saves your 2.4ghz SSID to the 5ghz network. You have to enable telnet and reset your 5ghz SSID again.
Message 237 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

NG maybe closing the separating SSIDs when the UI is used. NG intended the Orbi to run a single SSID and PW. Was not ment for separate SSIDs...

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 238 of 854
soundersfc
Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

"My Orbi will always default to 2.4 if the signal for 5 is less than 90% even though at 70-60% I get better speeds off the 5 than the 2.4."

 

This is EXACTLY what I have been hitting with the Orbi. Only way to fix this was to split the SSIDs. Before my security cameras, phones, pcs and macs would have absolutely horrible connectivity and speed. Now this system is absolutely perfect.

Message 239 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Has anyone lowered the power output of the 2.4Ghz radio from 100% to say 50% to see if the behavior changes? 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 240 of 854
dinokath
Star

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I love and hate the fact there's only one SSID. Love it because it's simple and most of the time works great. Hate it because when I try to connect the 2.4GHz smart plugs and other devices using my S7 running the latest Oreo, I cannot choose the band my S7 connects to, so it invariably always chooses 5GHz, which requires me to go into the Orbi, uncheck the broadcast SSID box on the 5GHz, reboot the router, log back in, etcetera, etcetera, etectra. 

 

Today I had an issue where a device that is ROCK solid and always works failed to work. Drove me nuts for over an hour. The parent device was responding but the other device was not, but if I used the remote control for that device, it worked fine. I thought my device was broken. Well, figured it out. Reason for the failure? We had a power outtage. The parent device that controls that device allows you to connect to 2.4GHz OR 5GHz networks. When the power came back on, guess which one it connected to? The 5GHz, and since it's the same SSID and password, it logged on no problem, of course, which meant the rock solid device and the parent device were not on the same network. I had to go in, turn off SSID broadcasting for 5GHz, etcetera, etcetra, etcetra.


Now that I have split the bands up into two distinct bands, I know which is which and can MUCH more easily do what I need to do. I wish it were an option in the setup for Orbi. That's my Christmas wish - Netgear - please put this option into the router. Pretty please. Thank you!

 

Now, if there's a way to mitigate this without having to turn bands off and on, I am all ears but it doesn't seem clear to me in the software! 

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 241 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Orbi is intended and designed to have a single SSID using Smart Connect. This is how it works. It would defeat the purpose of Smart Connect and wire MESH systems to have separate SSIDs. 

 

You can try this, lowering the Power outout on the 5ghz radios from 100% to lowest possible while you attempt to set up the devices. If you only have 2.4ghz devices, then they will only connect to the 2.4ghz radio on the Orbi. If there not connecting, then its possible that the Mfr needs to be contacted as well for additional help and information. It's not always the Orbi fault. Most device connect to the Orbi regard less of frequency. 


@dinokath wrote:

I love and hate the fact there's only one SSID. Love it because it's simple and most of the time works great. Hate it because when I try to connect the 2.4GHz smart plugs and other devices using my S7 running the latest Oreo, I cannot choose the band my S7 connects to, so it invariably always chooses 5GHz, which requires me to go into the Orbi, uncheck the broadcast SSID box on the 5GHz, reboot the router, log back in, etcetera, etcetera, etectra. 

 

Today I had an issue where a device that is ROCK solid and always works failed to work. Drove me nuts for over an hour. The parent device was responding but the other device was not, but if I used the remote control for that device, it worked fine. I thought my device was broken. Well, figured it out. Reason for the failure? We had a power outtage. The parent device that controls that device allows you to connect to 2.4GHz OR 5GHz networks. When the power came back on, guess which one it connected to? The 5GHz, and since it's the same SSID and password, it logged on no problem, of course, which meant the rock solid device and the parent device were not on the same network. I had to go in, turn off SSID broadcasting for 5GHz, etcetera, etcetra, etcetra.


Now that I have split the bands up into two distinct bands, I know which is which and can MUCH more easily do what I need to do. I wish it were an option in the setup for Orbi. That's my Christmas wish - Netgear - please put this option into the router. Pretty please. Thank you!

 

Now, if there's a way to mitigate this without having to turn bands off and on, I am all ears but it doesn't seem clear to me in the software! 


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 242 of 854
soundersfc
Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

>>"It would defeat the purpose of Smart Connect and wire MESH systems to have separate SSIDs. "

While I understand that statement in theory, it ignores how iOS devices, Macbooks, Surface Pro's and most IoT devices actually work with band stearing and preference for stregth v.s. speed.

 

There is a clear flaw in the Orbi product, and clear solutions is every other competitive product out there to work around these realities of life, standards and unique situations. Proclaiming a theory is true for all situations is not a valid argument.  I highly suggest that NetGear listens to it's users and advocates instead of crossing their fingers and praying things work in theory.  Heck, hind this deep under Advanced so only those who know what is wrong and why this is needed can do this reliably instead of dumping the Orbi's and going for a different competititve mesh product.

 

As someone who works in the tech industry, listening to my customers and understanding that even I who designed the systems doesn't fully understand every possible scenario is a key to my companies success. Netgear used to be this way.

Message 243 of 854
dinokath
Star

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I know and understand why they work the way they do and I appreciate that, however, all of this being said, it is annoying as hell to have to go through all this trouble. My house is relatively small for the RBK50 (just over 2000sq ft) so the spread of coverage that is provided by the bands at either end of the house is very good, even dropping the broadcast strength down, it's still no guarantee I'll pick up just the 2.4GHz AND it takes just as long to do that as it does to turn the radio off. Plus, when the option comes up for me to connect to a network, it shows me two networks, the 5GHz and the 2.4GHz and I cannot tell which is which when they are named the same. Since my workstation is sitting right next to the primary router, my signal strength is maxed out, even at 25% power on the 5GHz.

 

I admit this is only an issue once in a very great while, but it is annoying as all get out.

Message 244 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

It's all inclusive to band steering and client devices. Not everyone has problems with there devices and Orbi. I don't and have many devices connected to my Orbi. For some, maybe not so much. Were here to try and figure it out and get it working if possible.

 

There are two sides of this, router Mfrs and Client HW Mfrs. They both need to listen to each other and help make each side of the fence work well for everyone. It's just not a one way street. 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 245 of 854
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

To see what is what on single SSIDs, you can always download free wifi scanning apps on your mobile device and see what is what on your Orbi. Very handy to have. 

 

For now, you'll need to work with the suggestions or keep what you've configured in the un-supported sepearation of the SSID. I presume NG will not be making any changes in this regard any time soon if at all. Again, it's how ORbi was intended to work and be supported. Feel free to ask though:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Idea-Exchange-For-Home/idb-p/idea-exchange-for-home

 

If you are having problems, then I would make contact with NG support AND the client HW mfr as both really need to be involved in resolving your problems. 


@dinokath wrote:

I know and understand why they work the way they do and I appreciate that, however, all of this being said, it is annoying as hell to have to go through all this trouble. My house is relatively small for the RBK50 (just over 2000sq ft) so the spread of coverage that is provided by the bands at either end of the house is very good, even dropping the broadcast strength down, it's still no guarantee I'll pick up just the 2.4GHz AND it takes just as long to do that as it does to turn the radio off. Plus, when the option comes up for me to connect to a network, it shows me two networks, the 5GHz and the 2.4GHz and I cannot tell which is which when they are named the same. Since my workstation is sitting right next to the primary router, my signal strength is maxed out, even at 25% power on the 5GHz.

 

I admit this is only an issue once in a very great while, but it is annoying as all get out.


 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.18.1/RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450(v2.3.2.120) and WNHDE111
Message 246 of 854
schumaku
Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@dinokath wrote:

Plus, when the option comes up for me to connect to a network, it shows me two networks, the 5GHz and the 2.4GHz and I cannot tell which is which when they are named the same.


What odd wireless station does show the same SSID more than once? macOS doesn't. Windows doesn't. Android doesn't. iOS doesn't. Decent Linux desktop OS don't. If you have an Orbi system (or for the sake of it any modern wireless infrastructure with many APs) with multiple satellites and your wireless client might see multiple APs on either the same or on different bands, every average wireless client does create some score based on signal level and quality. And it will always prefer a good 5 GHz over a 2.4 GHz - at least once it does throughput. If you have multiple Orbi systems these could be multiple 5 GHz or multiple 2.4 GHz or even a mix of it. If there are both - why do you think you have to bother to which radio this IoT thingie does connect to that very moment? Your device needs a network connection, and this can be established on any physical layer. Must be very poor device in case it's binding to just one BSSID (the MAC or virtual MAC address of that radio SSID) but not just take the SSID and use the best one available. If one radio does drop the connection request off - being due to infrastructure load balancing or bandwidth control - it has to associate with the very next. Of course this is possible only of the wireless STA are allowed to talk to each other (no isolation) - this is however a feature required for interconnections (being discovery, being IP broadcast, being ICMP multicast/Bonjour type discovery). Otherwise things won't be possible, not even on the very same radio.

 

If our IoT(oy) requires a clear identification of the radio, they should show the band and the radio MAC (BSSID) along with the network name. Yes, I now there is a lot of ***** in the IoT market - with wrong and misleading configuration documentation and guides in place. Still I doubt this is typically required.

 

Take me as the advocate to proof Netgear Orbi design - and many hobbyist up to professional wireless networks - running under a single SSID are perfectly right.

Message 247 of 854
dinokath
Star

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Jesus. One, two, three, four - I smell a flame war. The horse is mighty high on the Netgear forum!  You must think I lie. If I really cared enough, I'd screen shot it showing two of the same SSID's, but with that kind of **** attitude, I am barely caring enough to write this. 

 

Wow. Great to know you. 

Message 248 of 854
metabubble
Guide

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

It is indeed that every time someone shares their story how separating the SSIDs helped, some delusional person comes along and posts how that is not inteneded and one should rather suffer having devices go to congested 2.4 GHz with 20MHz width because the signal is slightly stronger.

 

 

 

Message 249 of 854
dinokath
Star

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Yeah man, I mean really, can't some people just %&^#%@&$ get it that if it *&#%$@!# works better for me, that's all that really @#@$*($% matters? WTF? SMMFH. 

Message 250 of 854
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