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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@Kalil wrote:

No i can not connect the devices that work on 2.4ghz to net anymore!!!!

If anyone has a solution please share


Start by telling people what you actually want to achieve. Forget about your idea of the solution.

 

You are trying to set up some sort of unnamed device that has to connect to your 2.4GHz wifi.

 

To do that you rarely have to separate the 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz.

 

Approach it from the other direction, ask yourself how to get the unnamed device to play nicely with 2.4 GHz. After all, if the device can't see 5 GHz, it doesn't care about it.

 

The problem is usually a poorly design installation routine that uses a mobile device.

 

If you cannot force your mobile to connect to 2.4 GHz, one way around this is to:

  • temporarily disable the router's 5 GHz.
  • Tell the mobile to forget the 5 GHz SSID.
  • Give it a minute or two to forget the 5 GHz wifi connection
  • Connect to 2.4 GHz.
  • Do your thing with the IoT device
  • Enable the 5 GHz wifi
  • Complain to the people who made the IoT gadget

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 676 of 739
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Sensei

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@Kalil wrote:

Unfortunately this methode of renaming 2.4 and 5 bandwidths doesn't work anymore. after the latest update to Version V2.3.5.30_1.2.8 ( July 2020) the two bands merged under one name.


Which Orbi product is this?  There is a separate community forum for the Orbi "Pro" version, which has different firmware from the residential version (this forum).  People who own that product are more likely to understand the nuances of the Pro version.

 

This experience highlights the risk of making unsupported changes to products.  Future firmware updates may cause the "hack" to fail.

 

While I (personally) have found that most "2.4G ONLY" products can be connected to Orbi's single SSID, I can sympathize with the situation where the system has been built around having two SSID's and now it suddenly no longer works.  What about dowloading the previous firmware and manually installing it?

I love my Orbi.
Message 677 of 739
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

What has worked for me is to do the seperation of 5G and 2.4G temporarily, with the 2.4G name being the one I want to standardize on.

e.g.

 - My Wifi

 - My Wifi 5G

 

I then connect all my tricky 2.4g devices, make sure they are happy, then reboot the router and it re-merges the SSIDs.

Once that happens most of my devices are happy again and I connect my 5G devices to the single SSID.

 

The other alternatives are to;

1. Downgrade to the last firmware that keeps the SSID separation alive (that's easy to do)

2. Upgrade/Downgrade to the Voxel 3rd party firmware that allows separation.

 

Honestly though for supportability, I'd give my work-around a go first before going a less supported route.

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 678 of 739
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Router Firmware Version V2.3.5.30, for the record works fine with split SSID's ...  the instructions are on this forum thread.

1xRBR50 1xRBS50 2xRBS40
Message 679 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Looks like the latest firmware fouls up the split networking a bit.

 

I initially split my 2.4 and 5 Ghz networks because my Oculus Quest wouldn't work well with them merged. It would drop off the network and I had to manually reconnect every 20 minutes. It was a known issue with the Quest when it first came out, and I'm not sure if they have resolved it yet. Once I separated the networks, the Quest worked great off 5Ghz.

 

I started having some wifi issues recently, so I went through the usual checklist of updating wireless drivers on my laptop and the firmware on my Orbi (1 RBR50 + 1 satelite) to 2.5.1.16. After the firmware upgrade the Orbi reverted to a single SSID. I went through the telnet procedure to separate the networks again. It works briefly after the reboot, then after a few minutes the 5Ghz network changes its name from what I set to simply "Wifi" all by itself. I've rerun the procedure a few times varying the network name in case it didn't like the ? I had initially included in my SSID. It's working as a separate network, but I'm unable to set the network name I want it to use.

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 680 of 739
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

You have to disable the wifison monitor.  It runs a cron job periodically.  If it detects that the ssids are different, it will rename the 5Ghz to the 2.4Ghz automatically.  This is a real pain.  I want most of my devices to connect to 5Ghz due to the higher throughput.  I still can't believe the Orbi doesn't support this.  You might be missing the step config set wifison-monitor_stop=1.

 

The full steps are here:

http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm  (replace with your router IP address)
enable telnet

// Run the following commands on the command line
telnet 192.168.1.1
config get wl_ssid
config get wla_ssid
config set wl_ssid='my-2.4'
config set wla_ssid='my-5'
config set wifison-monitor_stop=1
config commit
reboot


Note: To turn on monitor again: config set wifison-monitor_stop=0

 

Anthony

Message 681 of 739
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

nice explanation ... on what firmware release(s) does this solution work?

1xRBR50 1xRBS50 2xRBS40
Message 682 of 739
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I am running v2.5.1.8. I haven't tested it on the latest firmware that was just released.

If you test it on the latest, please post if it works here. I'm waiting to upgrade.
Message 683 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Weird once I started to follow your steps, i have now two separate wifis, one for 2.4 and one for 5ghz, but now I see alot devices just disconnect and few minutes later reconnecting. Happening very often.

Message 684 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

@a-brittis , I was having this issue a week ago trying to split SSID and Orbi immediately reverted back to single SSID after 3minutes.  I thought i did something wrong with Telnet and did it the 2nd time, again it reverted back to default. I got so frustrated and immediately throw my Orbi into the garage (regret after spending $$), rehooked my old netgear AC1450 router and all my IOT devices (wyze cams is one of them) work again and my phone works again (it was dropping wifi intermittently switching back and forth 2.4 and 5g, which sucks when u r playing live stream game and lost connectivity for few seconds).

 

Apparently there is a step to disable wifison monitor, i will try to revive my orbi and see if this solution work. 

The below instruction, you mentioned that it worked on an older firmware, i might have to manually downgrade my firmware to make this work then. 

 

One question i have is (i read in one post earlier), you need to turn off RBS50 before the "reboot" line, then only run the "reboot" line and let RBK50 reconnect itself and show 2 SSID.  Once that's confirmed, then turn on RBS50 and let it sync in (if it doesn't, then press the sync button).  
I think we need to run off firmware upgrade as well so that future firmware won't break this solution hack, what do u think?

 

The full steps are here:

http://192.168.1.1/debug.htm  (replace with your router IP address)
enable telnet

// Run the following commands on the command line
telnet 192.168.1.1
config get wl_ssid
config get wla_ssid
config set wl_ssid='my-2.4'
config set wla_ssid='my-5'
config set wifison-monitor_stop=1
config commit
reboot

Message 685 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I currently have RBR50 running on fw V2.3.5.30. Has anyone updgraded to the latest fw V2.5.1.16? Also does Guest network work for anyone when you separate the network?

 

On another note, I recently bought Google Wifi to test it and to compare it with my Orbi. I discovered that the Orbi is much faster. However, I believe that the Orbi has an advantage since it can separate 2.4 and 5.0 Ghz. I did remember I was pretty frustrated with drop connections before I separte the network on the Orbi. I really wish I could separate the network on the Google Wifi. More than likely I will return my Google Wifi and continue my search for my next router. Any recommendations? I've been satisfied with my Orbi but I just want my router to automatically upgrade and to just work.

Message 686 of 739
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Master

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

My company installs pretty much all the consumer brands of mesh systems. They are all pretty much the same regarding firmware updates. So you won't gain anything there. As far as speed and reliability goes, they are all very reliable, but the Orbi systems seem to have better coverage. It could be t5echnology, placement of antennas, size, or just plain power for the money. For an example an Orbi RBK23 AC2200 system will out perform its competitors. So if you like the speed and reliability of Orbi, stick with it.

With that said I am on 2.5.1.16 and for me it is very stable. There is another newer firmware, but it has not been officially posted on Netgear's website.  

Orbi RBK53 System/RBR50/RBS50/RBS50. + Orbi Voice RBS40V
RBK753 system/RBR750/RBS750/RBS750 + RBK853 System/RBR850/RBS850/RBS850
There's always a logical answer, if you have all the facts!
Message 687 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

@thuynhj 

I am on the latest firmware. 

 

I have been using the same model from Apr to Jun (out of the box without customization). When i first it up, it was alright everything connected to it fine and fast, except 2 key issues

  • Wyze Cameras, I have a hard time accessing my the cam's live feed (90% of the time unsuccessful)
  • My smartphone (Oneplus 6), keep dropping wifi whenever i am in my bedroom (I think the device is trying to toggle between router and satellite frequently)

I checked in this forum and found the solution to split SSID into 2.4/5.  I went ahead to try the backdoor solution, but the router reset itself to default setting after about 3 minutes. I thought i did something wrong and do the telnet the second time, same result it reset itself to single SSID. I gave up, removed the router and kept it in my garage for good.

 

But then in order to not regret my decision after spending $$$ to buy this router, i decided to give this router one more chance, afte reading somewhere that i need to add "config set wifison-monitor_stop=1" to the telnet code with the latest firmware so it doesn't reset. 

 

Here's what i did, I peformed a complete factory reset of the router.  Reinstall it using the Orbi app by following steps by steps.  To my surprise, all my devices work now including the Wyze Cams, without me having to do the telnet program. 

So far, it's still going strong and hopefully it stays that way.  The only one issue that's not 100% solve is still on my smartphone in my bedroom, where the phone will switch from 5 to 2.4 as soon as i enter my bedroom.  At least it's not keep dropping, it only happen one time whenever i get into my room with a 5G connection, it will toggle to 2.4G and then i am good. 

 

Are you still using the 2 SSIDs set up with the "config set wifison-monitor_stop=1" code added?  How it goes so far, what speed are u getting? 

I don't have any comment on Google Mesh. 

 

Message 688 of 739
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Master

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I agree, but at least unlike some other competitors, you can do a lot of advanced tweaks, with telnetting into the Orbi. 

However, sometimes a device will connect 2.4Ghz because the 5Ghz signal is too weak for a good connection. This can be checked with most devices. I find it happens to people who purchase a smaller system for a bigger home or office and have weak signal spots. Since 2.4Ghz broadcasts further, the phone, tablet, laptop, smart device, TV, etc., will connect 2.4Ghz.

I'm mentioning this because it's a trade off, if this is why the device keeps connecting 2.4 GHZ and you force it to connect 5Ghz.

Orbi RBK53 System/RBR50/RBS50/RBS50. + Orbi Voice RBS40V
RBK753 system/RBR750/RBS750/RBS750 + RBK853 System/RBR850/RBS850/RBS850
There's always a logical answer, if you have all the facts!
Message 689 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Thanks for the helpful response Mstrbig and Bin888!

 

@Bin888 I took your advice and did a factory reset, went through the setup from my phone, upgraded to the latest firmware, and so far it has been solid.  I added 30 devices and download speed has been great.  Upload speed is still kind of iffy because I'm not consistantly getting 200 Mbps (I have 200/200 Mbps)  I experienced a few drop here and there but is nothing like when I first bought it. 

 

Do you guys even bother to put cameras and Chinese power plugs on the Guest Wifi?  Is it even worth the hassle to separate it?

 

I installed an outdoor camera today and noticed is not getting a strong connection. I then went online to see how much a RBS50 Orbi Satellite would cost and was shocked at the price.  I have the router (RBR50) and 1 satellite (RBS50).  Now I'm thinking I should upgrade to RBK753S-100NAS and then try to sell my old Orbi.  

 

Costco currently have a sale for 1 router and 2 satellite.

https://www.costco.com/netgear-orbi-whole-home-mesh-wifi-6-system-with-advanced-cyber-security,-3-pa...     

Message 690 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

@thuynhj, i put all my devices (regardless of china or non china) onto my main, i never split them into guess wifi as i don't think there's a need to do this. 

Reason being, if you are afraid of being spied by chinese devices, don't bother...because nowadays, any devices that you use including your phone are being spied on by either Google/Facebook/Amazon/etc.........and many of these smart gadgets that we buy nowdays made in China, so i don't have an issue there since i am being spied on anyway. 

 

I don't know where you location is, but over here my place we don't get 200 upload speed. Mine is 400 down / 20 up.....so i usually get 450/20+ .  But there's always one place, no matter how i place my satellite, i always struggle to get 5G.  That's my bedrom and garage, it always go back down to 2.4G......since my garage and bedroom are next to each other, i suspect it's the building material inside the wall maybe that's blocking the signal, so i don't think it's the router issue but more of the building materials. 

 

Mind to share how big is your house? My total sq is about 4500 landsize, so 1 satellite is enough for my use case.

 

Finally, i am glad that doing the factory reset and reinstallation did help you. Try these settings changes too using your PC interface to access the router setting, i did these changes and improved the signals even better. 

Basic -> Wireless
2.4Ghz Channel: Changed from “Auto” to 6 (you may leave this to auto if you want, but channel 6 did help smooth my connection. You can change it back if it doesn’t do anything, or perform wifi analytics in your area to find reliable static channel, then change it to that number).
5Ghz Channel: i left it to Auto

Advanced Setup -> Wireless Settings
– daisy-chain topology: disabled
– implicit beamforming: enabled
– mu-mimo: enabled
– fast roaming: disabled <-- guessing that fast roaming may make things worse in a no so large home where there is overlap between router and satellite

Message 691 of 739
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

@thuynhj

I was shocked as the price of the RBR50 as well as their outdoor model. Remember that all Orbi products work with each other. What I ended up doing to increase my range was to add an RBS20. The throughout is only 2200mbps vs the 3000mbps of the 50 but it's much cheaper and will still work. Both satellites show up in the orbi app and both upgrade as normal although the rbs20 runs a different firmware than the rbr50 and rbs50. That and speed are the only differences. It works with wired and wireless backhaul and has 2 Ethernet ports. If you need more you can always add a mini switch.

Hope this helps. :-)
Message 692 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Interesting thread, thank you to everyone who has contributed. I thought I would share my problem and the solution I ended up going with, although, as I don't know what I'm doing, I'm not sure it's a good solution or not.

I recently bought a Yamaha MusicCast speaker that runs through Wi-Fi, but I consistently had problems with my media buffering or not even playing at all. I wondered if the speaker might work better on 2.4 GHz instead of the 5 GHz it was automatically connecting to, but I couldn't work out how to do it in the Orbi.

I have one router RBR50 and one satellite RBS50.

I found this thread and went through the procedure and did successfully set up two signals, 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz and it did sort of cure the buffering problem, although now my music would just stop every five or 10 minutes for no reason and I'd have to press play again. But as well as that, the new set up caused me lots of problems with the whole network with constant dropouts on all devices. I suspect it is because I'm using firmware V2.5.1.16.

So I reverted back to how it was (one SSID) and the MusicCast speaker stopped working again.

But, of course, my Orbi satellite is attached to my modem, in this case a Huawei HG659 and I logged into that and under "Set Up WLAN" I enabled WLAN 2.4 GHz SSID and was even able to give it a new name, calling it "MusicCast". I assume this new radio signal, which is now visible when I search for my networks, bypasses Orbi?

Anyway, I have now connected the Yamaha MusicCast speaker to the modem's 2.4 GHz signal and it works seamlessly with a -65 dBm signal. Like I say, I don't know if it's a good solution or if this sort of thing will work for anyone else, but it seems to work for me.

Message 693 of 739
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

That's great.

Essentially it seems you are;

1. Using two router now, with overlap between the 2.4Ghz bands - which can be bad.  I'd suggest at a minimum you should log into both Orbi and your Router and make sure your 2.4ghz are on different "Channels" so you reduce your noise.

 

2. You seem lucky that your router 2.4ghz can reach your music device. If it were farther away I believe you'd still be stuck relying on your Orbi to power it.

 

Glad you found a solution that works for you here!

Message 694 of 739
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Thanks for the feedback.

 

1. I checked, using Wi-Fi analyser, and there is no overlap in any of the signals. I'm using channels 1 and 36 in Orbi for 2.4 and 5 GHz respectively, and the Huawei router is set on channel 11 for its 2.4 GHz signal.

 

2. Yes, but I can see how this can cause problems, certainly if I were to decide to extend the system and put speakers in other parts of my house. So it's not ideal.

 

Can you, or anybody, think of a better way I can do this?

Message 695 of 739
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Can you, or anybody, think of a better way I can do this?

 

One thing I did was after seperating the SSIDs temprarily (I reverted the switch that allows it to stay on), I then let the Orbi reboot and back onto a Single SSID.  That has solved it for me.

 

Others have done things like turn off the 5ghz SSID to connect your 2.4 devices first, or drastically reduce the 5g signal temporarily to join your other items.

 

I was on the seperate SSID bandwagon for 2 years.. I still am. But the biggest tradeoff I got tried of was horrible roaming and switching between zones and even worse between SSIDs.

 

I'm back on Single and its been good so far now that everything is connected.

Message 696 of 739
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


Others have done things like turn off the 5ghz SSID to connect your 2.4 devices first, or drastically reduce the 5g signal temporarily to join your other items.

 

That seems to be the most successful strategy.

 

The problem is rarely anything to do with the Orbi, but with the crappy apps that people write for IoT stuff. The apps simply can't do their stuff if you are using a mobile device that is on a 5 GHz network. (Better apps don't have this problem.) Of course, the IoT thing won't connect to the 5 GHz network if it is designed for 2.4 GHz.

 

So, temporarily disabling the 5 GHz SSID broadcast achieves the objective without disabling the Mesh technology that is the whole point of the Orbi system.

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 697 of 739
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I disagree that "The problem is rarely anything to do with the Orbi, but with the crappy apps that people write for IoT stuff."  If the device will connect to the Orbi with the SSID's split, then the problem is not in the device.  I've given up on expecting NETGEAR to fix this problem, so I'll just keep my SSID's split using F/W V2.3.5.30 which meets my needs at this time.  I think it's wrong to let NETGEAR off the hook, claiming that the problems in connecting the devices with single SSID's is not their fault.  Of course it is.


@michaelkenward wrote:

Others have done things like turn off the 5ghz SSID to connect your 2.4 devices first, or drastically reduce the 5g signal temporarily to join your other items.

 

That seems to be the most successful strategy.

 

The problem is rarely anything to do with the Orbi, but with the crappy apps that people write for IoT stuff. The apps simply can't do their stuff if you are using a mobile device that is on a 5 GHz network. (Better apps don't have this problem.) Of course, the IoT thing won't connect to the 5 GHz network if it is designed for 2.4 GHz.

 

So, temporarily disabling the 5 GHz SSID broadcast achieves the objective without disabling the Mesh technology that is the whole point of the Orbi system.

 

 

 


 

1xRBR50 1xRBS50 2xRBS40
Message 698 of 739
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

This is not a Orbi issue. This issue lies with IoT mfr and there setup apps requiring setup mobile devices to be connected to 2.4Ghz while most phones and pads are DUAL band devices. Iphones and pad don't care what frequency they work on as some forget that both 2.4 and 5ghz are on the SAME NETWORK. So these IoT mfrs limit there setup sofware to 2.4Ghz only causing there users problems when they forget that there dual band phones and pads work on either since they are on the same network. I presume IoT may know about this however choose to make developemnt as cheap as possible, they limit there setup software to the 2.4Ghz radio only when they should be allowing for both radios on the setup phone or pad. IF they did this then these problems would not be happening. This is all on the IoT mfr! 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 699 of 739
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Madhatter is correct though, it's up to Orbi/Netgear to understand the realities of the industryand how Orbi fit into that reality.

They could take various approached which they havn't to address this, e.g.

  • Specifically state a warning about this and single SSIDs on their support, manuals, etc.
  • Allow users to officially separate SSIDs when they hit this issue
  • Help end users troubleshoot and have temporary work-around to get devices to connect.

Just covering their ears and eyes is a disservice and - frankly- dishonest approach to business.

 

The world doesn't care about theoretical situations, we deal with realities.  Browsers, OSs, Compatibility, Hub, Routers have all historically understood intent/theory v.s. the hard work required in reality.

 

Instead you have Netgear leaving this to an unpaid community to help them solve the problems for their customers.

Message 700 of 739
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