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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Even though the satellite(s) maybe wire connected, there will be the wireless backhaul thats enabled and always working. Users have asked to use this as a 2ndary wireless connection point. It will be up to NG to approve that. For now, it's just there always and not much you can do about it. 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 276 of 674
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Guide

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Hello,

 

I've followed your procedures for splitting the two SSID's. However, I am only able to modify the 2.4GHz band, as the 5GHz does not appear in my available networks list. 

 

I have verified this by changing the name of the 5GHz and only the original SSID remained in my available networks - so the 5GHz did not show at all. I then reverted the 5GHZ back to its original name and renamed my 2.4GHz and this connection DID appear in my available networks, but no 5GHz whatsoever.

 

Do you have any suggestions?

 

Thank you.

Message 277 of 674
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Guide

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Just wanted to add to the deafening amount of requests for this to be included into the UI. Band steering does not work properly and Netgear needs to have a user-friendly option that allows the splitting of SSIDs for those who don't have the time or volition to go through the whole telnet rigmarole. Please give us this option in the next Orbi update.
Message 278 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@Shinedown wrote:
Band steering does not work properly 

What exactly does not work?

 

In the first iteration, a wireless client STA does decide on the band and BSSID on it's own. If a client STA does associate to the 2.4 GHz instead of the "expected" 5 GHz it's because the client does it's own evaluation and does find the 2.4 GHz is (much) better than the 5 GHz for the same SSID. This is (mostly) unrelated to what the AP STA can do under the "Band Steering" capabilities.

When I have it right, on Orbi we face 802.11k, 802.11v, and most likely 802.11r. 11k and 11v are in place to inform the wireless client about the wireless environment, 11r would allow the seamless roaming. Now the cumbersome part is that many older wireless drivers, including those on various IoT don't support these capabilities.

Now you have some food to explain us what does not work properly, and why the wireless access to the very same L2 and L3 LAN should be done over dedicated SSIDs.

Message 279 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@schumaku wrote:

@Shinedown wrote:
Band steering does not work properly 

What exactly does not work?

 

In the first iteration, a wireless client STA does decide on the band and BSSID on it's own. If a client STA does associate to the 2.4 GHz instead of the "expected" 5 GHz it's because the client does it's own evaluation and does find the 2.4 GHz is (much) better than the 5 GHz for the same SSID. This is (mostly) unrelated to what the AP STA can do under the "Band Steering" capabilities.

When I have it right, on Orbi we face 802.11k, 802.11v, and most likely 802.11r. 11k and 11v are in place to inform the wireless client about the wireless environment, 11r would allow the seamless roaming. Now the cumbersome part is that many older wireless drivers, including those on various IoT don't support these capabilities.

Now you have some food to explain us what does not work properly, and why the wireless access to the very same L2 and L3 LAN should be done over dedicated SSIDs.


What do you mean some "food"?  It doesn't matter one iota if its the client or the AP that determines which band to use, and as you said several IoT devices won't update to allow it to correctly determine.  I cannot go out to the 20+ different providers of devices I have on my network and ask them to fix their drivers for determining which band.  

The easiest solution is to simply provide the option for Orbi users to separate their 5 Ghz and 2.4 Ghz SSID's like EVERY OTHER WiFi router out there without having to use terminal access.   We know it's there, it's possible, because we can do it a convoluted way.  

This deflection is pointless since this is a Netgear issue, not (in my case) an Apple, TP Link, Microsoft, Intel, Phillips, Amazon, Google, etc issue. It doesn't matter if their WiFi drivers are the ones determining which band to use.  Why do we need to wait for that to happen when Netgear can simply make the split SSID's an option in the GUI?

Message 280 of 674
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I'll add a few words here as well.

I am one of the Orbi users who has separated the SSIDs. Why? Because no matter what I did, no matter where I place the clients, every single 5ghz capable device I have kept steering to the slow and congested 2.4ghz band. I could have the device sitting 3 feet from the router and it would drop me onto 2.4. This is ok for guests and very low bandwidth purposes but even my 4k TVs were dropping to 2.4 and that caused them to slow to a crawl and constantly buffer. I've not had any issues since forcing 5ghz devices onto a separate 5ghz SSID.

Chris
Message 281 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Plus one for me. Without the separation I had two issues that I couldn't get resolved;

1. Most my devices would switch to 2.4 even if they were just feet away from the router or satelite (I pay for 1GB fiber, so not acceptable)

2. Many of my IoT devices would fail to have any throughput. My Ring Cameras in particular would report connectivity issues.

 

After moving the main router and satelite around the house trying to fix this, after seperating the SSIDs everything has worked PERFECTLY, and this has been the best wireless setup I've ever had.  I was a about to pack up my Orbi and return it, luckily I had the persistence to think I couldn't be the only one having issues and searched for a solution.

 

Like others have said, this isn't an odd request. It's something almost every router system has today including other routers from Netgear.

PLEASE make our lives easier and make this a supported capability. I fret every single firmware update, so much so I'm very close to turning off auto-update (which I don't want to do) as I'm getting paranoid that an update will break this while I'm on vacation and my whole security system will be compromised.

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 282 of 674
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I have a Honeywell "smart" thermostat. It refuses to connect to it's app on my phone because it connects to the 2.4GHz network and my phone would only connect to 5GHz. I cannot make my phone connect to 2.4GHz because it "intelligently" picks the 5GHz network to connect to. I cannot solve this without the ability to have both devices connect to the 2.4GHz network. This is one of the many issues in the real world out there. NetGear's decision to assume separation of SSIDs is no longer needed is poor foresight. Even Apple allowed for separation of SSIDs on their routers.

 

Oh, by the way, the hack to separate SSIDs does not work for me and I've tried to change many parameters using intelligent guess work.

 

Now some security pointers:

 

  1. Telnet instead of SSH to access the router's command line is a huge security risk. It's been more or less abandoned in favor of SSH.
  2. HTTP access cannot be disabled. Seriously?

Please take care of these basic security lapses ASAP!

Message 283 of 674
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Having the exact same issue trying to setup 2.4 only device using the app on my iphone. Cannot force iphone to connect on 2.4 so I cannot see the 2.4 device. Anyone have a solution short of the Telnet scheme?

Message 284 of 674
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Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

2.4 and 5ghz are the same network! All devices are visibile each other or you have some other problem
Message 285 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Turn down the power output of the 5Ghz radio from 100% to 25%. Save and apply. Then either power cycle or turn off the wifi on the mobile phone then back on. Be sure your at a distance from the Orbi to ensure the phone connects to the 2.4Ghz radio. It should. If your too close the phone may still connect at 5Ghz. 

 

Contact the Mfr of this device for help and information. This is there resposibility to support there devices on MESH networks  or wireless networks with a single SSID name and ensure it will work on them. 


@Cigars71 wrote:

Having the exact same issue trying to setup 2.4 only device using the app on my iphone. Cannot force iphone to connect on 2.4 so I cannot see the 2.4 device. Anyone have a solution short of the Telnet scheme?


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 286 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@Cigars71 wrote:

Having the exact same issue trying to setup 2.4 only device using the app on my iphone. Cannot force iphone to connect on 2.4 so I cannot see the 2.4 device.


It's the same network, repeating what was answered before -the IoT device is discovereable by broadcast, by Bonjour, or by whatever "magic" protocol regardless on how the phone is connected. An IoT App, or ideally the IoT device itself must be able to deal with this situation: Talk to the supplier of this IoT garbage. 

Message 287 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Contact the Mfr of this device for help and information. This is there resposibility to support there devices on MESH networks  or wireless networks with a single SSID name and ensure it will work on them. 


@Cigars71 wrote:

Having the exact same issue trying to setup 2.4 only device using the app on my iphone. Cannot force iphone to connect on 2.4 so I cannot see the 2.4 device. Anyone have a solution short of the Telnet scheme? 


Neither Apple (not iOs, not macOS), nor Windows, nor Android, ... do allow to explicitly choose the 2.4 GHz wireless, too. Because there is no f***g reason. And then again, with your mobile phone you have no option to select a certain tower or band. Again, no f***g reason. All ideas I've seen reading crazy ideas in this community.

@Cigars71 Go spread this word with the supplier of these IoT devices! It's neither a router or Orbi thing, it's not an Android or iOS thing, it's a problem of the IoT vendors to resolve. Decent IoT - regardless if these are 2.4 GHz only or 5 GHz, or of these are located in an area of the house with just one band coverage - continue to be discoverable with ease, if things are done right. It's their problem to be resolved!

Message 288 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

That is such a horrible response. You are basically telling people they should go yell at Amazon/Ring, Google/Nest, Wink, Samsung, Domo, Vizio, etc. etc.... and unlimited set of companies...  When it turns out we could just walk away from one - the Orbi  - and purchase a new device (even others from Netgear) that "Just Works".  Most of us are loyale to Netgear and have loved their devices for years, hence why we are here spending (or wasting?) time trying to help others be successul with Netgear even when the company (and those like you) are not helping.

 

I'm sypathetic to why you are being so rude and inconsiderate as it's desireable that these things behave perfectly, but that is now how technology works my friend, and other mesh network vendors have realized that, as has Netgear in their other routers.

 

So you have a choice, be rude and unhelpful, or join us and help us make the Orbi even more successful.

Message 289 of 674
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Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

We are not QA.  It does not matter why exactly band steering does not work.  It has been explained multiple times that it does not work.


So all this tapdancing is unnecessary.

 

Simply add separate SSID support in the GUI like all of Netgear's other products.

Message 290 of 674
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Aspirant

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I have to say, I am shocked by the rudeness and defensiveness of these responses. I guess what you are all saying is that an older piece of equipment with a quirk in the "setup via app on iPhone" claiming that it needs to be on the same 2.4ghz band for some reason, should be thrown out now because Orbi doesn't allow a simple feature available on most other devices to be used even temporarily for setup purposes? 

I will likely box up the Orbi for another model before just junking my older devices. Thanks for all the "advice."

Message 291 of 674
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Master

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@Cigars71 wrote:

....... 

I will likely box up the Orbi for another model before just junking my older devices. Thanks for all the "advice."


You'll for sure find many "simple" wifi routers that support separate SSID's for the two bands, but I doubt that you will find a wifi mesh system that supports this "functionality". I know that Google wifi does not support this, not sure about other mesh brands.

This is because the wifi mesh network concept is built on having seamless movement of the devices between all AP's and for all bands using one single SSID.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK50 AC3000, Router Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBK852 AX6000, Router Mode, Wireless Backhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 292 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Were not rude - just plain honest. 

 


@Cigars71 wrote:

I guess what you are all saying is that an older piece of equipment with a quirk in the "setup via app on iPhone" claiming that it needs to be on the same 2.4ghz band for some reason, should be thrown out now ...


Nope. We clealry stated you have to talk to the vendor or maker if the older equipment.It's their ***** issue, they have to address it. It's a ridicolous limitation! 

Need a workaroud and still have the old router at hand? Configure it's 2.4 GHz radio to the same network name and security key as you have it on the Orbi. Switch off Orbi. Then discover and configure the older equipment. Now switch off the old router, start Orbi, and restart the older devices. Problem solved. The device will connect to the Orbi system on 2.4 GHz.

 

Message 293 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Well, it's clear this schumaku person either;

A. Believe a mesh network shouldn't be compatible with devices made in 2018 or

B. The Orbi has some major band stearing issues they either dont' understand or don't know how to fix.

 

Regardless, I pray this  schumaku person does not work for Orbi as any reputable company doesn't employ people who are rude, unprofessional and not empathentic to their purchasers. 

Message 294 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I agree, most mobile devices don't allow users to select a frequency. I presume this maybe due to the lazy method or of think to just let the the device pick. Not sure why they don't allow for this. I agree though, the IoT Mfrs need to do more on there part to make there products work on MESH and Smart Connect enabled routers. It IS there resposibility as well. Wifi and router Mfr can only do so much in the development. 

I'm hoping that NG will give users the ability to turn off either radio. IT would be helpful to get some flexibility. However this would and may impact MESH wifi operation and performance so it's possible this may bring another problem to the table which NG may not want to do. Something NG already had enough of. Smiley Frustrated
Will see what the future holds.


@schumaku wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

Contact the Mfr of this device for help and information. This is there resposibility to support there devices on MESH networks  or wireless networks with a single SSID name and ensure it will work on them. 


@Cigars71 wrote:

Having the exact same issue trying to setup 2.4 only device using the app on my iphone. Cannot force iphone to connect on 2.4 so I cannot see the 2.4 device. Anyone have a solution short of the Telnet scheme? 


Neither Apple (not iOs, not macOS), nor Windows, nor Android, ... do allow to explicitly choose the 2.4 GHz wireless, too. Because there is no f***g reason. And then again, with your mobile phone you have no option to select a certain tower or band. Again, no f***g reason. All ideas I've seen reading crazy ideas in this community.



 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 295 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I agree, users can be a bit more respectful in regards to there postings. Smiley Wink

 

Yes we are here to help NG, however we are also here to help each other as best as we can. However again, theres the other side of the fence when it comes to what we connect to NG routers and wifi. Those device Mfrs I presume have there plans and development and may or may not have some if not ALL wifi products in mind. With the advent of Smart Connect (broadcom) and MESH and how NG implements it seems to follow that everything is automatic for the user. And for the most part, if thats how NG wants it, they have the pink slip for this. We don't. However device mfrs should be held and need to take responsibilty to make sure there products work in the wifi and router industry as well. There are many different various devcies out there. We also have wifi standards that most router and wifi Mfr adhear too, so the device mfrs should be adhearing to this as well. Some maybe not or maybe they are and maybe not fully testing there products out on the major router and wifi mfrs products. There maybe other issues they are not finding as well in development and testing. 

 

We know that on non MESH systems, IoT devices seem to setup better since those routers have the ability to disable Smart Connect and or the 5Ghz radio which techincally doesn't need to be disabled as again, if a 2.4Ghz only supporting device doesn't support 5Ghz, IT WILL NOT TRY TO USE OR SEE 5Ghz. Disabling of the 5Ghz only sets the setup mobile device so that both it and the IoT device are on the same fequency. This tells us and shows us that the devices Mfr didn't fully develop or test it out with there mobile app and device only supporting 2.4Ghz, why didn't they remember that most of todays mobile phones are both supporing of 2.4 and 5Ghz and that most phones will connect to 5Ghz rather then 2.4Ghz when 5Ghz is present, why can't there setup app software deal with this kind of configuration. MESH or non MESH router with Smart Connect enabled using a signle SSID name. The device mfr should be able to develop and support this on there side. Shouldn't be rocket science for them to fix this. 

 

My 2 cents. 


@soundersfc wrote:

That is such a horrible response. You are basically telling people they should go yell at Amazon/Ring, Google/Nest, Wink, Samsung, Domo, Vizio, etc. etc.... and unlimited set of companies...  When it turns out we could just walk away from one - the Orbi  - and purchase a new device (even others from Netgear) that "Just Works".  Most of us are loyale to Netgear and have loved their devices for years, hence why we are here spending (or wasting?) time trying to help others be successul with Netgear even when the company (and those like you) are not helping.

 

I'm sypathetic to why you are being so rude and inconsiderate as it's desireable that these things behave perfectly, but that is now how technology works my friend, and other mesh network vendors have realized that, as has Netgear in their other routers.

 

So you have a choice, be rude and unhelpful, or join us and help us make the Orbi even more successful.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 296 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@soundersfc wrote:

Well, it's clear this schumaku person either;

A. Believe a mesh network shouldn't be compatible with devices made in 2018 or

IT's the resposibilty of the devices Mfr to ensure it works on Orbi as well. 

 

B. The Orbi has some major band stearing issues they either dont' understand or don't know how to fix.

 Is not a problem of band steering rather the devices setup software is not developed correctly to handle the setup device like the phone which is connected to the 5Ghz radio, to allow the devices software to work in between the 2.4Ghz device and the phone thats connected to the 5Ghz radio. It shouldn't matter what frequency the phone is connected to since the radios are on the same LAN side of the network, the software should be able to take the setup mobile phone and use it to connect the 2.4Ghz supporting only device to the network. There shouldn't be this limiation. This falls at the devices Mfr feet regarding this. 

 

Regardless, I pray this  schumaku person does not work for Orbi as any reputable company doesn't employ people who are rude, unprofessional and not empathentic to their purchasers. 


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 297 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

"IT's the resposibilty of the devices Mfr to ensure it works on Orbi as well." 

That is false. No manufaturer is required to specifically work around the Orbi system.

 

Re: Band Stearing, It's very clear you have not used the Google Mesh system, Eero, nor Ubiquiti AmpliFi. If you have, you will see that while they also have problems here, not nearly as much as the Orbi does.

 

Anyhow, that is besides the point. C ustomers are asking for the simple ability to rename one of the SSIDs to work around their unique scenarios and decices (including one thousand dollar iPhones) that Orbi doesn't play with well.

 

It's sad to see people on this form take a "I am holier than thou" stance. It's clear you are neither here to help, nor understand how to be compationate with the issues people are having and helping to offer solutions.  Netgear used to be a great company with great people (Heck, I still know some of the C-level), but something has been lost here which is truly sad.

Message 298 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

You can belive that. Thats ok too. 

 

Again, over all, both parties should play well together and both have to adhear to wifi standards. I presume if they don't then it's up some to find the real issue. In this case, those device mfrs still need to step up. You can't always place the blame at the routers feet. 

 

No claiming Orbi is the best or the worst. I know others report other mfr having there own problems. Were human thus not perfect so what we put out is not perfect. 

 

Never had a problem with any of my phones or IoT devices and Orbi. 

 

Good Luck. 


@soundersfc wrote:

"IT's the resposibilty of the devices Mfr to ensure it works on Orbi as well." 

That is false. No manufaturer is required to specifically work around the Orbi system.

 

Re: Band Stearing, It's very clear you have not used the Google Mesh system, Eero, nor Ubiquiti AmpliFi. If you have, you will see that while they also have problems here, not nearly as much as the Orbi does.

 

Anyhow, that is besides the point. C ustomers are asking for the simple ability to rename one of the SSIDs to work around their unique scenarios and decices (including one thousand dollar iPhones) that Orbi doesn't play with well.

 

It's sad to see people on this form take a "I am holier than thou" stance. It's clear you are neither here to help, nor understand how to be compationate with the issues people are having and helping to offer solutions.  Netgear used to be a great company with great people (Heck, I still know some of the C-level), but something has been lost here which is truly sad.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 299 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

No-one is saying the Orbi is the only culprit here. In fact, people like me have spent a lot of our own time FOR FREE to help users who are having issues (both Orbi and other Devices faults) to find solutions.  It's the stance that "This is how it's supposed to work in theory so go talk to 20 different manufactured to fix their issues" is borderline insanity, and a statement that only someone who believes they are perfect says.

 

Instead, we, the ecustomers, are asking for a very simple solution of renaming an SSID label hidden deap in advanced settings to help mitigate the issues in today's world where not everything is perfect and make Orbi continue to be a fantastic solution for the masses (not just IT folk who argue with 20 manufaturers).

Message 300 of 674