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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Latest update broke the option to have separate SSID..

Why Netgear!

Message 426 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Separation of the SSIDs is not supported in the first place. 

Why not use the system as its designed and intended to be used? It works generally for those you use the signal SSID. 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 427 of 674
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Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Yes it works for some but not everybody. I get the idea of a single SSID and I would love for it to work. It doesn't work on brand new Rokus and Xboxs. That is what I don't understand. They want to automatically connect to the 2.4Ghz wifi instead of 5Ghz. Why not make the seperate wifi option an advanced setting? I can't turn down the 2.4Ghz signal because I have a bunch of wifi cameras that are spread out and need to have a strong signal for them to connect. I know I will get a lot of heat for this but I spent a lot of money on this solution and I can't afford to buy another one. I guess I will just not update to the latest firmware and keep things as is since it is working.

Message 428 of 674
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Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

I have to agree with those who say the single SSID just doesn't work. I used the hack to split the SSID so I'd have 2.4 / 5G - and it worked great for me. I would connect my ipad and iphone to the 5G so I could take advantage of my 1.5Gbps fiber speeds. I never saw movies skip or stop - everything was smooth.

 

Now - my ipad tends to connect to 2.4 most of the time (even though I'm just one floor about the main Orbi. When it does connect to 2.4 I almost always experience skips and stops while watching MLB live - or Netflix - neither of which requires all that much bandwidth. I usually have to turn off wireless and turn it back on in hopes of connecting to 5G - it's maddening given the extremely fast fiber speeds I have to the door.

 

I have my apple tv's set up to use ethernet - so I have no issues there - I have a fast switch that takes care of any device connected via ethernet.

 

Now - I'm researching new wireless routers - something that will give me dual band and range I need. I don't live in a big house so I could probably just pop it on the second floor and still get great speeds throughout. The problem I have with that is I spent a good chunk on the ORBI and it worked just fine with I split out the SSID's -- but now with the single SSID it's a crap shoot as to whether I'll have a nice fast connection or not. I find that extremely disappointing.

Message 429 of 674
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@BANsOnLn wrote:

I can't turn down the 2.4Ghz signal because I have a bunch of wifi cameras that are spread out and need to have a strong signal for them to connect.


Just in case you missed the many times this has already been suggested.

 

  • Go into the settings for your Orbi system
  • Advanced
  • Advanced Wireless Settings
  • Disable SSID broadcast of 5GHz
  • Set up whatever stuff comes with useless configuration software that insists on 2.4GHz
  • Check that it works OK
  • Go into the settings for your Orbi system
  • Advanced
  • Advanced Wireless Settings
  • Enable SSID broadcast of the 5GHz
  • Get on with your life.

 

There have been many reports of success with that. Only a few devices are so hopeless that this fails.

 

If you have the strength, also moan to the people who sold you poorly designed rubbish and  try to persuade them to join the Mesh world.

 

 

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 430 of 674
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Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

my problem is not getting the 2.4Ghz devices connected. They are connected now. My problem is all my other devices that seem to want to connect to 2.4Ghz instead of 5Ghz. With 10 people in the house and multiple devices the ones that can use 5Ghz need to be on 5Ghz.

Message 431 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Be aware, that Orbi provides the platform for devices to connect to and helps them get connected to either frequency. However it's up to the connecting device to pick what frequency to connect to based on signal quality, noise and strength. It's up to these devices to connect up. Orbi just helps them get connected based on frequency support and conditions. Smart connect may not fully work well for some or some of these devices. However it's the connected devices who play appart in this as well. I've only experienced some issues in streaming on my pad, not often enough or the slight pause in streaming only seem to happen once or not long enough or often enough to check on it. Orbi works for me and works well for all of my wired and wireless devices. My next door neighbor now has a Orbi system so I have to ensure we are separate on channelization. 


Signal, quality, noise and strength are factors to consider. Placement of the Orbi system and it's satellites are also factor as well. Too close or too far in between will be problmatic.

For xbox, wired connections is prefered. Xbox wireless adapters in side have never been the greatest and MS has shown little effor in continued development or fixing there problems seen here. One reason my my two consoles are always wired. 


@BANsOnLn wrote:

Yes it works for some but not everybody. I get the idea of a single SSID and I would love for it to work. It doesn't work on brand new Rokus and Xboxs. That is what I don't understand. They want to automatically connect to the 2.4Ghz wifi instead of 5Ghz. Why not make the seperate wifi option an advanced setting? I can't turn down the 2.4Ghz signal because I have a bunch of wifi cameras that are spread out and need to have a strong signal for them to connect. I know I will get a lot of heat for this but I spent a lot of money on this solution and I can't afford to buy another one. I guess I will just not update to the latest firmware and keep things as is since it is working.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 432 of 674
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

You did turn the 5 GHz back on?

 

You have suggested that these 5GHz devices forget their wifi connection and recreate it from scratch?

 

There's not much that anyone can do if you have wifi clients that don't know how to operate properly.

 

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 433 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

These responses are complete rubish. It is on netgear to work with common devices that their customers have. iPhones, iPads, Macs, Windows Laptops, Xbox's, common IoT devices.

 

To suggest all these players aren't doing the right thing is laughable at best. The Orbi product has absolutely horrible band-stearing and does not work in the real-word out of the box for these types of setups many of us have.

 

A perfect world doesn't exist, get off your high horse. There is no need to defend and pretend that Netgear doesn't have huge improvements to do here.

Message 434 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

You would be incorrect there as well. It's the repsonsibility of the device mfrs to ensure there devices work with wifi systems. It's not up to router Mfrs. Granted they may do some limited testing with most popular devices, however they don't develop the devices. It's up to the devices Mfrs to test and develop there devices on wifi platforms that are current and new and upcoming wifi system products. Can you imaging if you were a NG engineer having every wifi device in the world in your office to test with? LOL where would you put them all. Ok, lets me realistic here. 


@soundersfc wrote:

These responses are complete rubish. It is on netgear to work with common devices that their customers have. iPhones, iPads, Macs, Windows Laptops, Xbox's, common IoT devices.

 

To suggest all these players aren't doing the right thing is laughable at best. The Orbi product has absolutely horrible band-stearing and does not work in the real-word out of the box for these types of setups many of us have.

 

A perfect world doesn't exist, get off your high horse. There is no need to defend and pretend that Netgear doesn't have huge improvements to do here.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 435 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Unfortunatly this hardware engineer you are talking to (me), completely disagrees with you.

When you build a router that you sell and advertise as working with existing devices, it's because you have done the hard work to make that true. You believe in customer experience and the promise of your marketing words.

 

Google Wifi, Eero, UniFi AC Mesh - All do a much much better job at band steering for devices. Orbi could do the same.

Message 436 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Thats fine. However you would need to fully understand how things work in the Mfrg and development world fully understand where responsibilities lye and where band sterring come into play. You can't just blame one. I presume there are some devices that may have differences with. Theres always improvments yet theres two sides to this. Both NG and Device Mfrs are the players.  


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 437 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Appears @soundersfc does not want to understand that this is a community, and not a communication with Netgear. Most people in this community don't build (design, implement, ...) routers or Mesh systems. It's a little bit unfair to blame other community membrs about thier experience, their know-how, their time they spend in an attempt to help.

People come here with various issues:

 

  • 2.4 GHz devices which don't associate ("connect") at all.
  • Typically 2.4 GHz devices which can't be discovered by some overly smart Apps unless the mobile is connected to the very same 2.4 GHz AP radio (or probably another 2.4 GHz AP radio).
  • Dual band clients which are apparently (in the users mind) associate to the wrong band (and sometimes even the "wrong" AP).
  • Dual band clients which seem to prefer 2.4 GHz even if the 5 GHz band is available on-air.

And the holy gral seems to be the ability to configure separate SSIDs for each band as er the subject. No: It's not.

 


@soundersfc wrote:

Google Wifi, Eero, UniFi AC Mesh - All do a much much better job at band steering for devices. Orbi could do the same.


This might be true. For now we don't know anything about the algorithm and the preferences in place - if there is any band steering at all. Or if Netgear does belief that the wireless clients (with various capability sets) do things right. For the interesting reader of the IEEE documentation, you will discover there neither such beast defined nor are there any standards for "moving" a mobile wireless device from one band to another band, or to another AP.
 


@soundersfc wrote:

To suggest all these players aren't doing the right thing is laughable at best. The Orbi product has absolutely horrible band-stearing and does not work in the real-word out of the box for these types of setups many of us have.


This might be true - but does by far not cover all the potential issues as listed above.


@FURRYe38 wrote:

You would be incorrect there as well. It's the responsibility of the device mfrs to ensure there devices work with wifi systems. It's not up to router Mfrs.



The typical examples where these IoJ devices which come with device discovery Apps which don't allow the effective discovery unless the mobile device with the discovery app unless its connected to the 2.4 GHz band. Basic understanding of L2 networking does obviously not exist with many of these "product" makers - you can reach a device on a L2 network (built of some Ethernet switches, bridges, many wireless APs, ...) by IP broadcast, by Multicast, or by other dirty tricks trying ot discover some specific MAC groups.

Granted, the consumer networking "industry" (Netgear is not excluded) had many issues over earlier product families where one of the other basic thing (IP broadcast, IGMP Multicast, other Multicast, ...) failed to "jump over" from a WLAN interface ot the LAN form the LAN to another WLAN interface, ... Still, there is no need to tell the customers "connect your mobile device to the 2.4 GHz to discover" well into the 21st century of networking.

Message 438 of 674
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Apprentice

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@schumaku wrote:

Appears @soundersfc does not want to understand that this is a community, and not a communication with Netgear. Most people in this community don't build (design, implement, ...) routers or Mesh systems. It's a little bit unfair to blame other community membrs about thier experience, their know-how, their time they spend in an attempt to help.


 It is exactly this understanding that I'm calling out another member of this community on deflecting all blame on NetGear and making assumptions that show zero empathy for what dozens and dozens of users have complained about here.

 

>And the holy gral seems to be the ability to configure separate SSIDs for each band as er the subject. No: It's not.

Not holy grail, but a factual mesurable solution that solves the issues people are running nito. Seperate SSIDs does that today, no other solution suggested by other members not Netgear staff solve the problem.

Message 439 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Something we do agree upon. We still have IoT and wireless device mfrs failing to let there setup sofware on dual band supporting devices allow the device to be connected to the 5Ghz radio while the IoT device is connected to the 2.4Ghz, while both radios belong to the same nework. Yet get get some posts blaming Orbi and not having the ability to separate the SSIDs when in actuallity, it's not Orbi to blame, it's these IoT mfrs failing to recognize the if they put in the ability in there setup softwar to allow the dual band setup device to connect to either frequency, the IoT would be able to be setup and installed. WIth out having to separate or require only 2.4Ghz connections with the setup mobile Device. Theres is big misunderstanding here which I wish IoT mfrs would address. Would be alot less frustrations for there users on both sides of the fence. I have personaly not have had any IoT connection issues with setting up something on Orbi. Last IoT was Echo Dot this past summer. I also use the same SSID name and PW as well. So all my devices, regardless of which wifi system I use, they all connect back with same SSID name and PW. 

 

I believe when IoT mfrs can better implement there setup software to support the connection between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz ON the setup mobile device software, maybe we'll be in the 21st Centry. Ya, I feel stuck mack in the 802.11b days with what happening with IoT software. 


NG and other router mfrs choose to implement single SSID, or Smart Connect. For NG mess, they seem to think that is this best for there product. There target audience is the average home user who just wants to get something connected and easy of use and setup. Smart Connect came out to take this into account and have just one SSID for the two frequencies, let the system and devices work out where they connect too. Though some MFrs chose to give some users support for SSID separation, NG chooses not too. I presume they feel the system works as it's designed and intended to work. For the most part it does. Some users are just used to having the control of having two separate SSIDs. For some of these MESH products, it may not be oeprationally feasable or may degrade the system in some way that NG doesn't want to support or give users the ability. There are many factor in wifi and mesh systems and when there focus is on the intended design, they may not want to introduce any other problems in to the system as there already problems that abound which I'm sure NG is working to resolve already. It's NGs product and ball game. They run it how they choose. We have the ability to choose to use it or not. 


@soundersfc 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

You would be incorrect there as well. It's the responsibility of the device mfrs to ensure there devices work with wifi systems. It's not up to router Mfrs.



The typical examples where these IoJ devices which come with device discovery Apps which don't allow the effective discovery unless the mobile device with the discovery app unless its connected to the 2.4 GHz band. Basic understanding of L2 networking does obviously not exist with many of these "product" makers - you can reach a device on a L2 network (built of some Ethernet switches, bridges, many wireless APs, ...) by IP broadcast, by Multicast, or by other dirty tricks trying ot discover some specific MAC groups.

Granted, the consumer networking "industry" (Netgear is not excluded) had many issues over earlier product families where one of the other basic thing (IP broadcast, IGMP Multicast, other Multicast, ...) failed to "jump over" from a WLAN interface ot the LAN form the LAN to another WLAN interface, ... Still, there is no need to tell the customers "connect your mobile device to the 2.4 GHz to discover" well into the 21st century of networking.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 440 of 674
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Tutor

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Good luck not updating. The router automatically installs the firmware which is just terrible.
Message 441 of 674
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Betreff: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Thanks for the idéa. Never thought about this option.

Will it be any disadvantage to use this method instead of using 2 separate SSID (one for 2.4Ghz and one for 5Ghz)?

I am using several cameras and IOT-parts that use 2.4Ghz, therefor I am using 2 SSID.

Message 442 of 674
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Betreff: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@parostberg wrote:

 

Will it be any disadvantage to use this method instead of using 2 separate SSID (one for 2.4Ghz and one for 5Ghz)?


It isn't clear to me what you mean by "this method". Your message comes after a long string of (mostly misguided) stuff.

 


@parostberg wrote:

I am using several cameras and IOT-parts that use 2.4Ghz, therefor I am using 2 SSID.


Using two SSIDs in those circumstances is irrelevant and not necessary. Devices that work only at 2.4 GHz cannot see 5 GHz wifi and cannot connect to it, regardless of the SSID it broadcasts.

 

The only use of two SSIDs is in setting up these 2.4 GHz devices. This is often done with a mobile app that runs on a device that can connect to 5 GHz. Most of those, things like Arlo cameras for example, will happily set up 2.4 GHz devices even with a 5 GHz connection.

 

If the app is poorly written, it will not be able to communicate with devices that run on 2.4 GHz. So these crummy apps hit a brick wall.

 

The way to tear down that wall is to turn off the 5GHz SSID broadcast, connect the mobile device to 2.4 GHz, set up the device and then turn the SSID broadcast back on. That is a much simpler process than "breaking" your Orbi and having separate SSIDs.

 

Other messages go into the exact details of what you have to do, including a few refinements that other users have added. It seems to work for most people. However, there are those who have a religious devotion to using two SSIDs. (They didn't realise that they were buying a system designed to work like that.) Unless you are one of those, then using two SSIDs means that you are crippling your Orbi system for no good reason.

 

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 443 of 674
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

@FURRYe38 There are more and more IoT devices apearing everyday. I've brought up Honeywell Smart Thermostat before and it's inability to connect to a 2.4Ghz network of my Orbi and Honeywell is a big company. If Honeywell is unable to figure this out properly, what hope do you have for the other smaller IoT manufacturers? Now when it comes to a company like Netgear whose business is networking, they can implement solutions like permitting separation of 2.4Ghz SID from 5Ghz. They can be the anchor in a sea of IoT devices which can bring stability and sanity back. Orbi is the focal point and a solution can be implemented on the focal point vs herding a bunch of cats. Think about it.

Message 444 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

NG isn't responsible for IoT Mfrs software and setup development. IoT mfrs are. IoT Mfrs are responsible for there products and software. 

 

NG has enabled users to disable the 5Ghz SSID name while giving users and IoT device setup software and setup mobile devices to connect to only the 2.4Ghz SSID. This is a working solution give by NG. Thus there isn't a need for SSID separation. 

 

Honestly, this is a dead horse. Users have been asking about this for years now. NG doesn't seem to be giving in. Even on Orbi AX. Orbi systems seems to be the only products NG isn't willing to let users separate SSIDs. Probably for a good reason. We'll probably never know the actual reason. So, Orbi is what it is. Users have the ability to disable SSIDs as needed. For those who want to try the telnet configuration, thats completely up to those. Again, not officially supported by NG. And if you update FW, don't blame NG or the FW for breaking something that isn't officially supported by NG. 

 

Good Luck. 

 


@Crazy-Bubble wrote:

@FURRYe38 There are more and more IoT devices apearing everyday. I've brought up Honeywell Smart Thermostat before and it's inability to connect to a 2.4Ghz network of my Orbi and Honeywell is a big company. If Honeywell is unable to figure this out properly, what hope do you have for the other smaller IoT manufacturers? Now when it comes to a company like Netgear whose business is networking, they can implement solutions like permitting separation of 2.4Ghz SID from 5Ghz. They can be the anchor in a sea of IoT devices which can bring stability and sanity back. Orbi is the focal point and a solution can be implemented on the focal point vs herding a bunch of cats. Think about it.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 445 of 674
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Guru

Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Let's come back to this post from January 2019:


@Crazy-Bubble wrote:

I have a Honeywell "smart" thermostat. It refuses to connect to it's app on my phone because it connects to the 2.4GHz network and my phone would only connect to 5GHz.


What model exactly? Honeywell has many different smart thermostats, some might use different Apps, ... and things vary with the markets, e.g North Americas vs. Europe. Honewell Home (now Resideo) is suffering from similar issues like Netgear does: To many different products, different configuration procedures, multiple Apps, ...

When reading for example this: Why is my Lyric T6 Pro Wi-Fi thermostat not finding the in-home Wi-Fi network? there is no word that both the mobile and the T6 must be connected to the same 2.4 GHz wireless. All they request is to ensure that the 2.4 GHz wireless is broadcasting. No word of disabling 5 GHz, no word of connecting the mobile to 2.4 GHz. Anything else is real networking, probably IP broadcast based (or multicast). And here all Orbi interfaces - LAN, 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz interfaces connect to the very same L2 network.

The typical questions are always the same: Does the discovery app fail to discover and configure the network name (SSID) and the security key, or the LCD based thermostat not find the wireless, or both don't allow to connect to the wireless at all or they do connect but don't get an IP address, or can't reach the Internet (as required for the cloud services).

Not sure why you state that the thermostat is supposed to connect to your App - or where things exactly fail. Either way, the communication does run over one single L2 network - no matter GbE LAN, 2.4 GHz, or 5 GHz interfaces are in use.

The thing with the ability to disable the SSID broadcast for the 5 GHz WLAN on Orbi does not really help for the stupid discovery Apps requiring the mobile device connected to the 2.4 GHz - and otherwise the discovery process can't be started: I doubt that Honeywell was so silly to use this kind of technology - still, I don't have the bigger picture of all their WiFi (Smart) thermostat models. A wireless dual-band client readily configured with the SSID and security key can connect to the 5 GHz even if the wireless does not broadcast.

It appears to be very difficult to help people here.

Message 446 of 674
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Guru

Betreff: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Thank you @michaelkenward - perfectly on the point!

Message 447 of 674
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Tutor

Betreff: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

again my problem has not been getting 2.4Ghz devices to connect, it has been my new devices (Roku's, iPhone's and Xbox's) connecting to 2.4Ghz when 5Ghz is available. I know I should hardwire the Roku's and Xbox's which I plan on doing in the near future. I just don't understand why they won't connect to 5Ghz when it is available. The simple fact is I made a bad choice for my wifi solution I guess. I also guess it is the Roku's, iPhone's and Xbox's that are the problem because the are not smart enough to connect to 5Ghz when it is available.

Message 448 of 674
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Guru

Betreff: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi

Wifi environment and conditions are a factor as well as the connected devices on how they decide to what they connect too. Smart Connect plays a part on this, however the wifi environment and conditions will play a bigger role in what the devices determine they connect too. Configuration and placement of the RBR/RBS is important as well. 

Neighboring Wifi sources will be a factor too. 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 449 of 674
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Re: How to set a separate SSID for the 5 GHz network on your Orbi


@schumaku wrote:

I doubt that Honeywell was so silly to use this kind of technology


Hewlett Packard has demonstrated its ability to do silly things many times over.

Just another user.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 450 of 674