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Apprentice

**I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Ok so Everytime my power would go out or and update happened/ or any way my orbi system would have to turn off my connection would just die with my rbk53 unit. Mainly because once I had my ethernet wires connected for wired backhaul it would be hours of turning the satalites off / on the router same thing nothing would work till finally hours later or days later it would start working like normal. So I figured out WITHOUT the help of Netgear (they were no help) if you have a wired connection on your orbi unit it will suffer in the begging of booting up. It pretty much doesn’t know if it should go wireless or wired so it would throw off everything on every unit from satalite to router and just become a mess. I have a rbk53 plus a extra rbs50 which is wired backhaul. So the best way to fix this is by RE-STARTING (off/on) THE WIRED SATALITE THEN GO THE ROUTER UNPLUG THE ETHERNET WIRES OUT OF IT (but you can leave the other ends the satalites or devices just remove from router) NOW RE-START THE ROUTER LET IT BOOT UP AND ONCE ITS ALL SET WHICH IS ABOUT 2-3 min HOOK UP THE ETHERNET WIRES BACK IN THE ROUTER AND BOOM! If you try updating like me with all units attached & not doing this process you will be just be stuck turning the unit off / on and it would cripple the system. Its SAD that Netgear has no idea about this. I remember when Ethernet backhaul just started you would hook up the Ethernet cable and everything would stop working. I feel as if theres some bugs they dont know about and people are getting these issues because of the wired Ethernet backhaul. I will contact Netgear support to address them about this and I finally have Internet which is working EXCELLENT!!!!!!! Finally I can say I love my Orbi unit!

Hope this help you guys!
Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System, RBS50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Satellite Only)
Message 1 of 31
Highlighted
Tutor

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Sevo123,

Thank you so much! Every time my system would restart devices wouldn’t sync I couldn’t access the main Orbi through web interface. I would have factory reset each time.

Today it went into psycho Orbi mode so I unplugged all ethernet plugs going into Main Orbi. Power cycled, waited a few minutes and plugged all ethernet cables back into the main Orbi and BAM! All is good in my Orbihood. 

The Orbi system is outstanding when it’s up and running. Thanks again.

Model: RBR50| Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi (Router Only)
Message 2 of 31
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Im So glad I was able to help!
Message 3 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Just curious, any network switches in the mix between the router and satellites?

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 4 of 31
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Hi, No i dont have any
Message 5 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Kewl.

Thanks for posting your process. Hope this helps others. Will keep this in mind.

 

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 6 of 31
Highlighted
Tutor

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Just curious, any network switches in the mix between the router and satellites?

 



Yes I do go through a switch. 

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 7 of 31
Highlighted
Guide

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

I had the same issue. Below is what resolved it for me (basically what OP said, but i tried to simplify the instructions a bit). This got me stable after the auto-update recently to the new firmware. 

 

I have an RBK50 (RBR50+RBS50) and an RBS40. My network was basically dead with the orbi after the 2.1.4.10 update. All devices auto-upgraded. A power-cycle as suggested by the known issues did not help. But powering them up in this order seems to have gotten things working great again!

 

  • Power off all orbi gear
  • Power on only the RBR50 (Orbi Router). Wait 2-5 minutes.
  • Unplug backhaul ethernet cable from RBS40/RBS50 (Orbi Satallite)
  • Power on RBS50 or RBS40 (only 1 at a time, just to make sure to be able to keep an eye on each device and make sure network remains stable).
  • Login to RBR50, once you see that the RBS40/50 is connected with 5G, wait 2-5 minutes and plug the backhaul cable back in. Wait 2-5 minutes again and you should see the interface switch to wired for the backhaul connection. Monitor network for another 2-5 minutes to ensure things remain working as-expected.
  • Repeat steps 4/5 for any additional satellites.
Message 8 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Whats the Mfr and model# of this swtich? There are some issues with using switches. Managed swtiches seem to cause problems. One user found that if you have a managed switch, you need to disable IGMP protocols. This may help on managed switches. I use two unmanged swithces between my 1 satellite and router. No problems...so far. 


@Dsdeck wrote:

 


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Just curious, any network switches in the mix between the router and satellites?

 



Yes I do go through a switch. 


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 9 of 31
Highlighted
Tutor

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Thanks for letting me know. It's a TP-Link un-managed gigabit switch. Maybe that's the problem?
Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 10 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

If it's un-managed it shouldn't be. Be sure to confirm it's unmanaged. Whats the model # of it. 

Also could be bad cabling as well. 

Could be a bad switch, you would have to try a different switch and test. Could be various things when it comes to switches.

I'm using a older inexpesive NG non managed Gb switch and a mid level non managed HP Gb switch in between mine...working so far since installing the system. 

 

I would run a test, directly connet 1 Satellite to the back of the Orbi router and see if you exhibit the same problems or not. Be sure to use good quality LAN cabling. CAT 6 recommneded. if probllem still happens here as well, you may have a bad unit which would need to be RMAd. 


@Dsdeck wrote:
Thanks for letting me know. It's a TP-Link un-managed gigabit switch. Maybe that's the problem?

 

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 11 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Another user with a good process:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-availability/m-p/1560759/highlight/true#M29582

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 12 of 31
Highlighted

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **


@wziemer wrote:

I had the same issue. Below is what resolved it for me (basically what OP said, but i tried to simplify the instructions a bit). This got me stable after the auto-update recently to the new firmware. 

 

I have an RBK50 (RBR50+RBS50) and an RBS40. My network was basically dead with the orbi after the 2.1.4.10 update. All devices auto-upgraded. A power-cycle as suggested by the known issues did not help. But powering them up in this order seems to have gotten things working great again!

 


Thanks! I had the same problem with my RBK20 using Ethernet backhaul after the automatic update to 2.1.4.10. Following your procedure I finally managed to update to 2.1.4.10 without breaking my whole network. Both Orbis are running fine for 12+ hours.

 

Message 13 of 31
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Aspirant

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Thank you very much for your directions.

I just installed brand new RBK53 system with wired backhaul satellite connection. Initially, when I've wired satellite it did not work, but after reading this post and follow instructions it worked.

However, when I disconnected satellite from power (needed to use different outlet) and powered it up again, it stopped working and I needed to perform the same procedure. 

So my question is - what will happen after power outage? Do I need to go thru same procedure?

I'm concerned about it, because I have home and media automation systems and if I am not at home it will be stacked. Any ideas?

 

Regards

 

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 14 of 31
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

I purchased the RBK53 kit from CostCo yesterday.  I immediately updated the firmware which proved to be a challenge.  One of the satellites refused to report the firmware version back to the router, so it just sat with the "please wait a moment message".  At this point, all three units were in the same room about 15ft. apart, and they were still having trouble communicating.  After several restarts, I finally managed to get them updated (v2.1.4.10) at which point I started the process of placing them in my home and configuring.  Let's just say that it took several hours and starting over multiple times to get to a place where all units are communicating and using wired haulback.  I did this by following the steps outlined earlier in the thread, and being very patient.

 

I wanted to point out a couple of things that I've observed during this setup process and during the post-setup testing to see  if anyone has suggestions:

1.  The overall coverage area of each unit seems to be very small with little ability to trasmit through walls.  I have a Nighthawk R7500 single router that seems to provide better coverage and faster speeds than all three of the Orbi units.

2.  Once switched to wired haulback, the satellites do not seem to be able to communicate firmware version back to the router.  That screen simply hangs, which implies that firmware updates will require moving all of the satellites closer together and leveraging wireless haulback.

3.  When a client is connecting through a satellite the process of joining the wifi network fails with an incorrect password message even when the password is correct.  Moving to the room with the router allows the user to join the network with the same password.

4.  The Orbi iOS app fails to find the Orbi system when launching through a satellite, but does work when in the room with the router.

 

Any suggestions?  I'm hoping that a firmware update will fix most of this stuff.  If not, I will be taking advantage of CostCo's return policy.  

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 15 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

The system should recover with out any user intervention after a power outage. Give it about 5 minutes to resettle in.

 


@Motya wrote:

Thank you very much for your directions.

I just installed brand new RBK53 system with wired backhaul satellite connection. Initially, when I've wired satellite it did not work, but after reading this post and follow instructions it worked.

However, when I disconnected satellite from power (needed to use different outlet) and powered it up again, it stopped working and I needed to perform the same procedure. 

So my question is - what will happen after power outage? Do I need to go thru same procedure?

I'm concerned about it, because I have home and media automation systems and if I am not at home it will be stacked. Any ideas?

 

Regards

 


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 16 of 31
Highlighted

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

I have an RBR50 and two RBS50 units. Tried this with one of the RBS50 units and once I plugged in Ethernet, it basically became unresponsive. Left it for 15 minutes with no change, so I unplugged. Within a minute or two everything came back up just fine.

 

I test lots of mesh here, most recently the eero and Velop tri-band. Neither of those has any issues using Ethernet backhaul in exactly the same locations/configuration. 

 

I do have several dozen Sonos devices, but that hasn't been an issue with any other mesh.

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 17 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Any network LAN switches in between the router and satellite? If so, whats the Mfr and model# of these swithces?


@DaveHamilton wrote:

I have an RBR50 and two RBS50 units. Tried this with one of the RBS50 units and once I plugged in Ethernet, it basically became unresponsive. Left it for 15 minutes with no change, so I unplugged. Within a minute or two everything came back up just fine.

 

I test lots of mesh here, most recently the eero and Velop tri-band. Neither of those has any issues using Ethernet backhaul in exactly the same locations/configuration. 

 

I do have several dozen Sonos devices, but that hasn't been an issue with any other mesh.




 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 18 of 31
Highlighted

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

I have a TrendNet TEG-S16D in between, yes. Straight-ahead, "dumb" Gigabit switch. Passes STP no problem (given that all my Sonos stuff works just fine across it).


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Any network LAN switches in between the router and satellite? If so, whats the Mfr and model# of these swithces?


@DaveHamilton wrote:

I have an RBR50 and two RBS50 units. Tried this with one of the RBS50 units and once I plugged in Ethernet, it basically became unresponsive. Left it for 15 minutes with no change, so I unplugged. Within a minute or two everything came back up just fine.

 

I test lots of mesh here, most recently the eero and Velop tri-band. Neither of those has any issues using Ethernet backhaul in exactly the same locations/configuration. 

 

I do have several dozen Sonos devices, but that hasn't been an issue with any other mesh.




 


 

Message 19 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

I would do this, remove the switch or bypass the switch.

Do a factory reset on the router and 1 satellite. Set up from scratch, add 1 satellite first via wireless. Then connect this 1 satellite directly to the router and give 5 minutes. Look for the top LED to turn BLUE. Can you get to this stage?


@DaveHamilton wrote:

I have a TrendNet TEG-S16D in between, yes. Straight-ahead, "dumb" Gigabit switch. Passes STP no problem (given that all my Sonos stuff works just fine across it).


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Any network LAN switches in between the router and satellite? If so, whats the Mfr and model# of these swithces?


@DaveHamilton wrote:

I have an RBR50 and two RBS50 units. Tried this with one of the RBS50 units and once I plugged in Ethernet, it basically became unresponsive. Left it for 15 minutes with no change, so I unplugged. Within a minute or two everything came back up just fine.

 

I test lots of mesh here, most recently the eero and Velop tri-band. Neither of those has any issues using Ethernet backhaul in exactly the same locations/configuration. 

 

I do have several dozen Sonos devices, but that hasn't been an issue with any other mesh.




 


 


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 20 of 31
Highlighted

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **


I think the switch is a red herring here. I connected everything within a range that got at least moderate wireless backhaul. I left it that way for one day. Then I connected one of the satellites to Ethernet. Lights never changed. Twenty minutes later, the web interface showed it as Wired.

Waited a day, did the same thing with the other Satellite. That one fought it more. Went red. THings connected to it wouldn't talk over the internet. 30 minutes later and it all settled in.

I'm not sure what kind of loop-prevention tech Netgear is using for this (I didn't watch with Wireshark), but my guess is that it's not run-of-the-mill STP because STP on my Sonos system works great and instantly on this very same network.

I also know eero doesn't use STP because they don't do full blocking. They'll actually leave both routes open for possible backhaul fallback, and they do loop-prevention after that, at least as far as I'm told.

My guess is that Orbi is employing something attempting to be similar in functionality to what eero provides, but for some reason it's just really slow at adapting to any changes whereas I've not experienced that with eero.

 

While I'm at it, Linksys's Velop (the other tri-band solution) also reacts nearly instantly to topology changes (like eero), but requires the one "main" unit to be online before anything else will work (like Orbi).

 

In comparison, the Orbi experience with Ethernet backhaul still feels like a "bolt on" and not a fundamental change to the core. I could very well be completely wrong about this, of course. But remember, Orbi was not built with Ethernet backhaul in mind initially and was added after-the-fact due to customer requests.

One thing is for certain: regardless of whether or not Orbi is using Ethernet backhaul, that 4x4 radio is (currently) never used for front-haul traffic. So even though Orbi is a tri-band solution from a hardware standpoint, it's not quite the same as Velop or eero in that regard. Both of those do open up all 3 bands for front-haul traffic. That said, Orbi's 4x4 backhaul often blows away the 2x2 backhaul from other vendors when used in longer-distance scenarios... it's all a balance. There is no perfect solution.

And I'm meandering off-topic, so I'll stop! Smiley Wink 

 

 

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I would do this, remove the switch or bypass the switch.

Do a factory reset on the router and 1 satellite. Set up from scratch, add 1 satellite first via wireless. Then connect this 1 satellite directly to the router and give 5 minutes. Look for the top LED to turn BLUE. Can you get to this stage?


 

Message 21 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

The reason for asking about the use of switches is that we've seen odd issues with some of them in the mix. Mainly managed switches are at odds with the Orbi system. Non managed should work with out issues. I have two in the middle of my router and satellite. Zero issues.

 

Have you connected the satellites directly to the router, bypassing any switches, to see how they connect? Should work well in this configuration.

Also besure to power cycle any swtiches so that there MAC address tables are cleared as well.

 

I would also turn OFF ALL Sonos devices as well. Seen others having problems with these as well. Try the system with out them.

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 22 of 31
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Hi 

This is weird.....

Today I've decided to get rid of switch between router and satellite for wired backhaul connection. I went thru the procedure explained above.

Everything looked ok, but I've decided to check speedtest (devices connected to satellite). Download speed showed half in comparison with un-wired backhaul connection (179Mb un-wired and 90Mb wierd). 

Switched between wired and un-wired several time - same result.

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

 

Message 23 of 31
Highlighted
Guru

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

Did you reboot the system after removing the switch? 

What this from the speedtest app or a mobile device? 

Try a wired PC connected to the satellite and router to see what results at? 

What is the Mfr and model# of the switch you were using? Was the speeds good with the switch in line? 

 


@Motya wrote:

Hi 

This is weird.....

Today I've decided to get rid of switch between router and satellite for wired backhaul connection. I went thru the procedure explained above.

Everything looked ok, but I've decided to check speedtest (devices connected to satellite). Download speed showed half in comparison with un-wired backhaul connection (179Mb un-wired and 90Mb wierd). 

Switched between wired and un-wired several time - same result.

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

 


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>RBK853 v3.1.15.32(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, RBK50, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 24 of 31
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: **I found a Connection issue Resolution for wired backhaul !! **

I have both Netgeer and TP-link 24 port un-managed Gigabit switches.

I found "bad" cable. Changed it and now looks good.

 

Thanks

BTW

Every time I am rebooting router I need to go thru the following procedure posted above (just copy it here)

  • Power off all orbi gear
  • Power on only the RBR50 (Orbi Router). Wait 2-5 minutes.
  • Unplug backhaul ethernet cable from RBS40/RBS50 (Orbi Satallite)
  • Power on RBS50 or RBS40 (only 1 at a time, just to make sure to be able to keep an eye on each device and make sure network remains stable).
  • Login to RBR50, once you see that the RBS40/50 is connected with 5G, wait 2-5 minutes and plug the backhaul cable back in. Wait 2-5 minutes again and you should see the interface switch to wired for the backhaul connection. Monitor network for another 2-5 minutes to ensure things remain working as-expected.

 

 

Message 25 of 31