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Virtuoso

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

I installed 1.4.0.16 yesterday and enabled Implicit BEAMFORMING around 5pm as a test to see if any of my 2 Dropcams would intermittently disconnect as I originally reported in this post.  Unfortunately they did disconnect - At 5:34, 6:23, 6:33, and 6:38.  I soon disabled it again to prevent these disconnects and they've been fine all day today.

 

So sorry, but this issue still exists with the latest 1.4.0.16 firmware.  Fortunately disabling implicit beamforming is still a workaround.

 

 

 

Message 76 of 246
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Virtuoso

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

From my point of view, this isn't a Netgear problem, per se - the Dropcams clearly have a driver issue with the implementation (because otherwise *all* devices would negatively react to beamforming).

 

However, pragmatically, it's exceedingly unlikely to ever be fixed by Google (just like the original Ring doorbell) - thus I think the earlier-proposed solution of disabling beamforming per-device is probably as good as it's going to get.

 

Netgear, any chance of this being implemented?

 

Rodney

Message 77 of 246
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Virtuoso

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

> From my point of view, this isn't a Netgear problem, per se - the Dropcams clearly have a driver issue with

> the implementation (because otherwise *all* devices would negatively react to beamforming).

 

My previous netgear R8000 also had beamforming but my Dropcams (and Nest cameras) did not similarly frequently disconnect.  Therefore I don't think we have the data yet to assert that this is a Dropcam-specific problem with beamforming vs. a Netgear or Orbi bug.  Anyone know of any other non-Netgear router with beamforming where (only) Dropcams/Nest cameras disconnect?

 

Our other devices may also be experiencing short disconnects and recovering... It's only the Dropcams/Nest cameras, their continuous network connection, and Google email alerts that notifiy us each time when it happens (even if very brief).

Message 78 of 246
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Virtuoso

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

I wasn't aware of the experience with the R8000 - that's an interesting datapoint.  I focused on the Dropcams in particular because they are known to have issues with a number of 2016-release/mesh products besides Orbi, and Google is long-and-notoriously known for their poor after-sales support in general on issues like this.

 

It may well be that there's no clear way to indicate who's at fault here - in both cases, the vendors are sourcing the wireless chipsets (and thus drivers) from other manufacturers where they (being Google and Netgear) have little to no control over the usually binary-only code blobs supplied to them by the chipset makers.  It's an unfortunate reality that has persisted for more than a decade.

 

Rodney

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Apprentice

Re: And I'm out. Orbi went back.


@DarrenM wrote:

Hello everyone

 

We just released Firmware version 1.4.0.16 which was a big updates with performance and bug fixes as well as guest network has anyone updated to this firmware that is using Nest cams to see if it has improved the performance of the Nest cams? If so please let me know if any new problems are happening with the latest firmware or if it has resolved the issues.

 

Thanks

DarrenM


 

The disconnects are still happening with my Dropcam and Nest cams as I have both versions.  It doesn't look like the drops happen as frequent as the previous firmware though...

Message 80 of 246
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Initiate

Re: And I'm out. Orbi went back.

Has this been solved yet> ? I still frustrated with the drops on nest cam. I really dont want to return the product!

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NETGEAR Moderator

Re: And I'm out. Orbi went back.

Thank you for the feedback on the latest firmware I will get this back to the engineers about the issues with beamforming and dropped connection.

 

DarrenM

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Aspirant

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

I found a solution that seems to be working for me. First let me state that I'm not an engineer, so apologies if this is a rudimentary work around, but my Nest is stable now, so I'm happy and thought this might help a few people out there.

 

Before i bought my Orbi, I had a Asus RT-N66U Wireless Router. In order to reach my outdoor Nestcam at the end of our driveway, I had to put a Netgear AC750 wireless extender in my garage to extend the signal to my nestcam.

 

Once I installed the Orbi (with two satellites) - the internet speed within my house was terrific with the mesh network, but the range to the end of my driveway was still weak. So I linked my Netgear extender to my orbi and used that extender to connect my Nestcam again.

 

That's when I started to experience all the intermittent "drops" with my Nestcam (several a day).  So I was reading this discussion board, and was about to try to turn off "beamforming" (whatever that is!) based on the posts, but then I saw that someone said the issue is with the 2G spectrum.

 

So I decided to try to extend just the 5G network using my Netgear extender. It was easy to do - just plugged in my extender to my computer, pulled up the Netgear setup site, and turned off the 2G network, so it was "only" extending the Orbi 5G network to my Nestcam.  Also, unlike the Nestcam itself (or other devices in my house), the Netgear extender software actually differentiated the signal from the Orbi satellite vs. the Orbi main router - so I was able to extend the 5g signal from JUST the closest Orbi satellite (so no problem with the extender now trying to hop back and forth between the Orbi router and Orbi satellite signal).

 

Anyway, first full day now without a drop. And didn't have to turn off beamforming (which I guess some people on this board said could degrade performance). I haven't noticed any interfernce in the Orbi and extender signals either.

 

So if you are just trying to solve a Nest cam specific problem, you might want to use an extender dedicated to just servicing the Nestcam and just extend the 5g signal from a specic Orbi device.  if  you don't have an extender, you can pretty easily reset your old wireless router to act as an extender (lots of videos on Youtube).  Anway, again, not a technical guy - but just posting in case this is helpful to anyone else.

 

Message 83 of 246
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Aspirant

Re: And I'm out. Orbi went back.

Yep.  Brand new Orbi system from CostCo and updated all satalites and the router with the new firmware and seeing discconects here with my Nest Cams.

 

Thought I was going crazy.  Disabled beamforming for now to see if it helps.

 

Thanks, DarrenM, for keeping on the engineers about this.

 

 

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 84 of 246
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Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

Hi all.

 

I was about to buy the Orbi until I saw this thread about the problem with Nest Dropcam.  Having constant Dropcam coverage is very important to me -- I can't have it drop even once, let alone several times per day -- so now I'm considering going with the new Google WiFi instead.  Since I'd prefer to go with Orbi, could someone please educate me on exactly what this "Implicit Beamforming" is?  What does it do?  Does turning it off fix the problem?  And more importantly, what suffers if it does get turned off? Lastly, does anyone know if this problem exists with the new Google WiFi?

 

Thank you!

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 85 of 246
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Virtuoso

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

It's one of the advanced options in the router and none of my 4 dropcams have suffered any connectivity problems with it off.  I wouldn't avoid the Orbi just because of this behavior since this workaround exists.  My wifi performance is still really good with the option off and I wasn't able to detect or measure any difference with it on/off.

Message 86 of 246
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Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

I guess my concern is that I don't know what turning it off actually does.  There must be a reason for it to be on (it's gotta do something, right?) so what changes once it's turned off?

 

Also:  the Orbi is better than the Google WiFi which is likely why it's more expensive.  If turning off this "beamforming" makes the Orbi not quite as good as when beamforming is turned on, then it might not be worth it to pay the extra money for the Orbi.  Does that make sense?

 

 

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Tutor

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

Tech- the beamforming alteration plus and minuses was pretty well talked through in the first couple of pages here

I would like to add that WeMo has a hard time with Orbi too. I just set up my Orbi last night and have deleated Nest protects, cams, and thermostat along with multiple wemo switches and ring doorbells trying to reload them with luck only on the cameras.
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Guide

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

Why would you pay the extra money for features that don't work? Sure, turning it off is a workaround but if you have to do that then why even bother with it? It's frustrating more than anything. Google (or more so Alphabet) prioritizes price reduction for it's companies as well, hence why it is cheaper than Orbi (which is way overpriced in comparison to competition) or Eero (also very pricey but works really well) or AmpliFi HD (apprarantly also works really well). I personally haad problems with all my devices connected to Orbi, and speeds were slow with my smart tv and my Macbook pro (along with all other complaints here). For that high of a price it just wasn;t worth the hassle, and beamforming is not that new of a technology to usse it as an excuse, it's implemented in plenty or routers and works fine. I ended up going with a eero and have had zero problems and great performance, but again it's very pricey which is a huge con for it. Why don't you just buy both and return the one that doesn't work as well as the other? Gotta remember with wifi each home is different, so other people's issue might not be your own and vice versa. 

Message 89 of 246
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Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

Does anyone happen to know if "Google WiFi" has this same issue with Nest Dropcams while Beamforming is on?

Message 90 of 246
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Star

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

I've had Google Wifi for 4 days now and I haven't had any drops with my nest cams or any devices.

I'm very happy with it and I don't miss my Orbi. I like the fact that the Google wifi units are smaller than the orbi.
Message 91 of 246
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Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

 

>>  I've had Google Wifi for 4 days now and I haven't had any drops with my nest cams or any device

 

Nice!  Thanks for that.

 

>>  I'm very happy with it and I don't miss my Orbi.

 

Perfect.  Do you notice any difference in speed or coverage (or anything like that?)

 

>>  I like the fact that the Google wifi units are smaller than the orbi.

 

Yes, I like that too.  Much easier to place them around the house.  More "wife friendly."  ;-)

Message 92 of 246
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Apprentice

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

I considered waiting for the Google Mesh system but chose to give Orbi a try while I waited.  Google's mesh system is the best mesh out there for the price.  There is no doubt.  But the performance will not compete with the Orbi system from other floors or long distances.  That is why I stuck with the Orbi.  Yes, I have a bunch of Nest products that were constantly going offline and turning off Beamforming fixed it.  I did a lot of testing around my house and found no big hits in performance or quality due to turning it off.  So I am happy with Orbi even with Beamforming turned off.  Just do a quick Google about Beamforming.  To me it is definitely nice to have in a single AP system but not necessary for the Orbi due to it's dedicated backbone system.  Just my 2 cents.

Message 93 of 246
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Tutor

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

Thank you for the advice and insight, it's ironic that I got the Orbi to help stream more nest cams.Smiley Happy I'll switch off the beam forming and post back... I haven't even began to see what this has done to the Sonos set up.
Message 94 of 246
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Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

 

>>  Yes, I have a bunch of Nest products that were constantly going offline and turning off Beamforming fixed it. I did a lot of testing around my house and found no big hits in performance or quality due to turning it off. 

 

Did you find ANY hits in performance or quality due to turning it off ?

 

Thanks!

Message 95 of 246
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Star

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

My MS Surface Pro 3 was slower without beamforming than with it.
Message 96 of 246
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Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

So I did some research on Beamforming.  According to Netgear themselves (here) they say this:

 

"Beamforming means that your router actively tracks clients and directs pinpoints Wifi to the client, rather than just blasting it out in all directions. This means better WiFi range and performance for your WiFi devices."

 

Therefore, I think I'd rather not have to turn this feature off.

 

 

(Granted the page I linked to is for a different Netgear router -- but the principle technology should remain the same.)

 

 

Message 97 of 246
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Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

turning it off is a work around for certain types of wireless clients that seem to have issues with beamforming and mu-mimo

 

if you dont have cklients with these issues you can re enable both

 

 

Message 98 of 246
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Apprentice

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

Hi

I am not very tech-savvy, so please excuse my terminology. I just thought to tell my story. It might help to sort out some issues if read by someone that know more, especially with the dropouts people experience. I have a 2015 MacBook pro. I use an app called "WiFi Signal" to keep an eye on connections. I have noticed that there is intermittent buffering on Youtube. This was not an issue on most of the previous routers I tried. At the exact time of the buffering, I notice a change in connection speed although the laptop is standing in the same position on a table. When the connection speed stabalize, the buffering stops. These fluctuations in connection speed can be anything from 760Mbps to 117Mbps. I live in a log-home and wifi coverage has been a big problem here. I have tried many different routers and repeaters and so far the Orbi has been the best solution as it would be difficult to run dedicated LAN wires. I do not get a "drop" in connection, but throughput is definitely affected. I can clearly see it when transferring files to a NAS server on my local network as data transfer gets interrupted momentarily. I have tried to switch beamforming and MU-MIMO off, but I did not notice any change in this issue. I use an app called "WiFi Sweetspots" on my phone. This also shows the fluctuation in speeds and graphs it nicely. It confirms the drops in data transfer rate to the NAS. I have also changed the distance between the router and satellite and swithched the satellite off completely. Still seeing the same issue, even a few feet from the router. Software is up to date and restarts done.

I hope this helps someone to get the issue fixed.

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 99 of 246
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Initiate

Re: Intermittent internet connectivity outage with Orbi?

i too have been pulling my hair out with my nest products and the orbi. I was going to get google wi-fi but they were sold out and i started reading reviews with the orbi and it seemed to have better peformance. I was using my wifi on my arris modem before. I have bridged it and setup the orbi and 1 satellite. It worked fine with everything for about 4 days with no disconnects, no issues.. Then the disconnects started happening with my nest cams (3 indoor, 2 outdoor ) on a 35/5 cable connection. I have updated the firmware to the latest V1.4.0.18. Still happening dozens of times per day. I have chatted for hours with nest support and they are replacing all 3 of my indoor cams to see if it will fix the issue as they said 1 of them was overheating. I saw this forum and have just disabled beam forming, so hopefully that is a workaround for me. At least I am getting newer nest indoor cams out of it. But i want all the features of this 400$ system to work! Thats why i paid for it. I have until 12/20 to return the orbi so I will test for a day or two and see if it makes a difference with the nest cams.NETGEAR get on the ball and fix this issue! You should play nice with one of the best camera systems out there as it is a wifi product!

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