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Apprentice

Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

So, I just set up this system on Monday, July 23rd, 2018.

 

Using it to replace a Google WiFi mesh system comprised of 3 Asus On-Hubs.

 

The reason I wanted to change was that I needed more range and power for a 6,000 sq. ft, 3 story house.

 

Here is the list of issues (the ones I can recall anyways):

  • Now I constantly have connectivity issues.
  • I have factory reset the system 3 times already.
  • Cannot disable daisy chain because it will effectively set the connection to the farther satellite to poor instead of good.
  • If I use wired backhaul to the farther satellite (which was working fine with the OnHub mesh) everything goes haywire and gets even worse.
  • I have one Arlo base hardwired to each of the 2 satellites, and at least 1 will always lose connection, effectively hindering my security system.
  • Devices that worked great with the onhub mesh for 2 years just lose connection all the time.
  • The guest network has better range and stability than the main network (I just turned off the guest network, let’s see what happens then, but I’ll start by saying that the 5Ghz band just went away, except for the backhaul channels, so, effectively, I only have 2.4Ghz)
  • My infrastructure (because the hardwired backhaul is obviously not an option) is as follows: Xfinity=>RBR50 (router mode)=>RBS50=>RBS50 (daisy chained) no5ghz.jpg

     

  • I have daisy chain topology and MU-MIMO enabled, everything else is disabled. daisychain.jpg

 

  • The farther satellite regularly just disconnects and I have to climb to the 3rd floor to turn it off and back on:satellite.jpg

 

  • The Android app just blows. I have 2 Google Pixel 2 XL’s, and a Samsung Galaxy S9+, and in both phones the device list will not populate most of the times. When it does populate it takes forever, and only populates 55-60% of the devices that are actually attached, according to the orbilogin.com page and my FingBox.
  • On top of that, the “Device Type” options are extremely limited. There are no options for most of the devices almost everyone with a high end and expensive mesh system have, such as smart speakers, garage door openers, smart lights, switches, plugs, alarm system, etc. It’s just lacking.

Any help to sort this out will be really appreciated. I really want to like this system, but at this point I am seriously thinking about bringing it back to Costco (it’s a good thing I didn’t throw away the box).

Things I have tried are:

  • Factory reset
  • Clearing NVRam and reboot
  • Clearing NVRam and Factory reset
  • Remove daisy chain (that limited my connection to satellite 2)
  • Wired backhaul (which is what I really want for satellite 2, but we all know what that does)
  • Enabled, and then disabled, implicit beamforming (most our devices can handle that)

What I have not tried, yet, is rolling back to a previous firmware, and the reason I have not done that yet is because I have no idea which was the last one that worked for this system (wired backhaul or daisy chain, at this point I will take whatever)

 

The fact is that, when it works, the range and speed are amazing, I don’t believe any other system can even compete with that, but I need stability much more than sheer power. My wife is driving me nuts whenever a connection fails, and since it’s an ongoing thing, she’s actually always looking out for that.

 

I tried calling Netgear support, and after holding for 49 minutes, the call just dropped. Also, even though my devices are registered to my account, their system would net recognize my device serial number (well, the 3 first characters) as a Netgear Orbi.

 

Please help.

 

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 1 of 19

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Guru

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

What is the mfr and model# of the ISP modem?

Any network switches in the mix? If so, Mfr and model# of the switches.

What is the distances between the base router and satllite and in between the satellite? 30 feet should be a good starting point.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

 

Heres how I got my friends 50 series up and running:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

 

Others to review:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Rbr50-satellite-to-satellite/m-p/1613750/highlight/true#M38100

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1586988/highli...

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111

View solution in original post

Message 2 of 19

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Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

What is the mfr and model# of the ISP modem?

Any network switches in the mix? If so, Mfr and model# of the switches.

What is the distances between the base router and satllite and in between the satellite? 30 feet should be a good starting point.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

 

Heres how I got my friends 50 series up and running:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

 

Others to review:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Rbr50-satellite-to-satellite/m-p/1613750/highlight/true#M38100

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1586988/highli...

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111

View solution in original post

Message 2 of 19
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Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!


@FURRYe38 wrote:

What is the mfr and model# of the ISP modem?

Any network switches in the mix? If so, Mfr and model# of the switches.

What is the distances between the base router and satllite and in between the satellite? 30 feet should be a good starting point.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.

 

Heres how I got my friends 50 series up and running:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

 

Others to review:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Rbr50-satellite-to-satellite/m-p/1613750/highlight/true#M38100

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1586988/highli...

 


Infinity router is a model  TC8717, WiFi is completely off, so no worries there. Then the topology is as follows:

 

TC8717=hardwired>RBR50=Wireless>RBs50x2 (Just removed the daisy chain topology and changed to star topology)

I do have 1 8-port unmanaged switch to LAN 2 port in the RBR50, and all my main devices pluged to it (TV, PS4, Xbox One S, Wink 2 hub, Amazon Fire TV, FingBox, Obihai VOIP box, QNAP NAS), plus the Cat6e wire that runs to the 3rd floor, but it is currently unplugged from the second (farther) RBS50. My router is in the basement, the first satellite is roughly 25 feet from the router, and the 2nd satellite is just 45 feet from the main router and 20 feet from the 1st satellite. The stairs from basement to 2nd floor are completely open, no walls in the middle, so the signal goes straight to each satellite.

 

So far, with the star topology I'm showing a good connection to both satellites.

 

I will move to channel 1 on 2.4Ghz, disable MU-MIMO, as you mention in the setup you did for your friend, and leave it there for 24 hours and come back with the results.

 

Thank you, I will keep everyone posted.

Message 3 of 19
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Regarding your ISP modem/router:

Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, LAN to LAN and configure AP mode on the Orbi router.

 

Hope the new settings help it work better for you...Let us know.


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 4 of 19
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

what problems are you having with ethernet backhaul?  ive not had any issues using it, only getting it to sync after a power cycle is challanging.  In my case i have to sync wirelessly then once everything is going i can plug in ethernet backhaul and it will switch over and work great.

Message 5 of 19
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Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Thanks a lot FURRYe38,

 

I'll give that a shot once the 24 hours of the current settings are passed and I see the results.

 

I''ll keep you guys posted.

Message 6 of 19
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!


@waynealight wrote:

what problems are you having with ethernet backhaul?  ive not had any issues using it, only getting it to sync after a power cycle is challanging.  In my case i have to sync wirelessly then once everything is going i can plug in ethernet backhaul and it will switch over and work great.


The problem, as my original post explained, is that everything goes litterally crazy. Things start disconnecting, even the devices connected via LAN.

 

I know I'm not the only RBK50/53 owner with this issue,but it is also true that it's not happening to everyone, so you seem to be one of the lucky ones.

 

I will try your suggestion tomorrow, after the 24 hours of the current settings are past, it may very well be the issue that I tried to make the wired backhaul from setup instead of syncing wirelessly and then hardwiring it. 

 

Do you also have 2 satellites? If so, do you have both satellites hardwired or just one?

 

The reason I ask is because the issue could be with backhauling 1 wireless and 1 hardwire, that could be confusing the router. Anyway, it's just something that came to mind right now.

 

Do you suggest that I just plug the Cat6e without rebooting the system and let it sync by itself? Please let me know.

 

Thank you.

Message 7 of 19
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Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

i was just wanting more detail on the going crazy part.  From what i gather its locking up the system.  I experience that if i have the satellite plugged in when i first power it in.  I only use one but have experience the same issue, the entire network crashes as long as its plugged in.  I also keep both my router and satellite on battery backups due to this problem.  

 

SO basically what i do is power on the router first and let it completely boot.  then with the ethernet backhaul disconnected I plug in the satellite, let it boot and sync and become stable.  after a few minutes I plug in ethernet backhaul, the satellite will flash blue for about 30 seconds as its reconfiguring itself and presto back to normal.  on both the router and satellite page it will verify you are using ethernet backhaul. If at anypoint i loose my satelite for some reason, it will not reconnect if ethernet backhaul is still plugged in, and will crash the network.  basically like it used to do before that feature was enabled.  I also leave mu-mimo, beanforming and fast roaming enabled.  

 

I don't believe having one on ethernet and one wireless will affect anything, only because with ethernet backhaul working, it will maintain wireless backhaul connection.  The topography will not show it, but if you watch the wireless backhaul traffic packets will move back and forth.  not very many but they do.  

 

As far as reliability go I usually have around 25 devices connected to my network.  I run a 16 port unmannaged switch that innerconnects everything.  it is the only thing plugged into the router besides the modem.   I also use my satellite as a switch for my downstairs.  The only time the network goes down is if I make a change that requires a reboot, firmware upgrade, or a power outtage lasting more than 3 hrs.  so basically only firmware updates.  always update the satellites first, then the router.  Then follow the startup procedure.  

 

 I came from a linksys velop system that was 100x worse than this one.  before ethernet backhaul system restarts were no issue, and having researched and used a few different systems before I will take this bump in the road in order to have ethernet backhaul.  coverage and speed are awesome.  mesh wifi in non commercial applications are still being ironed out, were the beta testers.  

Message 8 of 19
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

also anytime you have to powercycle a device for a restart. as stupid as it sounds, you need to unplug it for atleast 30 seconds and let the onboard memory clear itself before turning it back on.  just simply clicking the power button on and off will not force the system to restart fresh.  I experienced this when switching isp's and modems.  I could not get my router to find the new internet connection without doing this.  Same story for the satellite.  If you have a disconnect and need to do the start up process, unplug it for 30 seconds then start the procedure.  if not it will likely revert to what caused the error.  

Message 9 of 19
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Lets keep on this track and will have the best of hopes for you. 


@jjvoliver wrote:

Thanks a lot FURRYe38,

 

I'll give that a shot once the 24 hours of the current settings are passed and I see the results.

 

I''ll keep you guys posted.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 10 of 19
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!


@FURRYe38 wrote:

Lets keep on this track and will have the best of hopes for you. 


@jjvoliver wrote:

Thanks a lot FURRYe38,

 

I'll give that a shot once the 24 hours of the current settings are passed and I see the results.

 

I''ll keep you guys posted.


 


I know that 24 hours are not up yet, but all the same, everything seems to be working perfect now.

 

No disconnections so far.

 

FURRYe38, I will keep the system as it is for now, although I'm not really getitng the speed I would like in my bedroom (a closed door and 25 feet away from the last satellite), but at least it's solid after I used your solution.

 

Now, I will reply to waynealight's ideas in a separate post.

 

Thanks a lot guys.

Message 11 of 19
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Hey man,

 

So, I woke up this morning, and decided to just plug the Cat6e to the LAN port right next to the Sync button in the second satellite. Well, everything just started going crazy again. All my devices got disconnected, and you could see in all of them how they would try to connect to the main network as well as the guest network, only to not be able to get an IP assigned by DHCP. Not only did it break connection to the satellite, but the other satellite and router as well.

 

What I did do, as you pointed out, is that I unplugged the Cat6e from the satellite again, unplugged the satellite's power (both of them), unplugged the RBR50's power, and waited 35 seconds before powering it back up. Waited for it to fully add all the devices, then went to the first satellite, repeated the procedure, then to satellite 2.

 

So far, everything is back up and running pretty solid as it is.

 

Now I know my system is one of those that just won't accept the wired backhaul.

Message 12 of 19
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Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Well,

 

I accept your solution because, well, it IS the solution to have the mesh system working now.

 

However, does anyone know anything about why the options (daisy chain, MU-MIMO, beamforming, etc) seem to break this?

 

Also, is there anything from Netgear about an estimated time of resolution for the wired backhaul?

 

I've been searching all over and cannot find anything on these subjects, other than owners complaining about them.

 

Thank you.

Message 13 of 19
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

for research purposes. try powering off the 2 satellites, then only power the one on that you want to use ethernet backhaul on.  after its booted up and synced to the router, try plugging it in.  but leave the other one off and see if it crashes again.  if it doesn't then try turning the next satellite on that you are going to be using wirelessly and see what happens.  this will confirm that there is something wrong with one of your devices, you can not have both wired and wireless backhaul at the same time, or a issue of the wired satellite trying to go through the other satellite instead of the router.

 

one other note I just remembed is I use static ip address for my satellite.  I dont know if that will make a difference or not but I thought i would share it.

Message 14 of 19
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Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!


@waynealight wrote:

for research purposes. try powering off the 2 satellites, then only power the one on that you want to use ethernet backhaul on.  after its booted up and synced to the router, try plugging it in.  but leave the other one off and see if it crashes again.  if it doesn't then try turning the next satellite on that you are going to be using wirelessly and see what happens.  this will confirm that there is something wrong with one of your devices, you can not have both wired and wireless backhaul at the same time, or a issue of the wired satellite trying to go through the other satellite instead of the router.

 

one other note I just remembed is I use static ip address for my satellite.  I dont know if that will make a difference or not but I thought i would share it.



Actually, this is a gooid idea. Thank you, I'll give it a shot as soon as I can get my wife and kids out of the house (it's an emotional precaution sort of thing, hehe. Don't need everyone in the house asking me to get them on the internet.)

 

As for the satellites, I also have them assigned fixed IPs. My network is 192.168.74.0/24 and I have assigned 2 and 3 to the satellites.

 

The only other device with a fixed IP is my NAS, for obvious reasons.

 

I'll give your idea a shot and come back with my findings.

Message 15 of 19
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Apprentice

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Oh trust me I completely understand.  Ive learned I can not play with the network unless no one is home or eveyone is asleep.   my house turns into that commercial where there is no internet for like 30 seconds and the world has come to an end.

Message 16 of 19
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Daisy Chaing is for wireless connected satellites, two or more. I presume if your using wireld backhaul, this option needs to be disabled. I presume fast roaming may be a push however this option depends on how wireless clients handle roaming with the Orbi. MIMO is for devices that support MIMO. So if you don't have any or maybe just one, I'd disable MIMO. 

 

How long did you want after you connected the LAN cable to the satellite? You need 5 minutes to wait for the top led to turn on BLUE. Then the network should settle down. 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...

 

Aother way I would connect satellites via wired backhaul is to disconnect ALL other wired and network devices from the ORbi. Then connect the lan cable to the satellites, 1 at a time, waiting up to 5 minutes for the top led to turn on BLUE. Once you have all the satellites connected and tested. Then re-connect all the rest of the devices. 

 

I believe sometimes the Orbi router may have problems with DHCP and IP address conflicts during this process when a wired satelllite is connected. Saw behavior on my satellite where for some reason, it was in conflict with my cell phone microcell. I had to turn OFF the microcell, get the satellite reconnected, gave it a IP reservattion on the router, then turn on my microcell then the system was ok. 

 


@jjvoliver wrote:

Well,

 

I accept your solution because, well, it IS the solution to have the mesh system working now.

 

However, does anyone know anything about why the options (daisy chain, MU-MIMO, beamforming, etc) seem to break this?

 

Also, is there anything from Netgear about an estimated time of resolution for the wired backhaul?

 

I've been searching all over and cannot find anything on these subjects, other than owners complaining about them.

 

Thank you.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 17 of 19
Highlighted
Aspirant

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

When the wired backhaul is plugged into a satellite with an active wireless backhaul, a switching loop is created. Packets will be transmitted around the loop endlessly consuming all of the network bandwidth. I don’t know how netgear has tried to implement the transition from wireless to wired, but it isn’t easy and there clearly are issues. 

 

In datacenters switching loops loops are broken using something called a spanning tree protocol. STP is complicated and often results in a suboptimal network structure, so I doubt that netgear is using it. 

 

In any case, sticking with a wireless backhaul is a safe choice since it is netgear’s primary test scenario. 

 

 

Message 18 of 19
Highlighted
Guru

Re: Netgear Orbi RBK53 Wired 2.1.4.16, too many issues!

Wired back haul works as well:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...
https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...
Greg's Setup Working: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-wired-backhaul-performance/m-p/1548397/highlight/false#M2...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/I-found-a-Connection-issue-Resolution-for-wired-backhaul/m-p/1...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-2-1-4-10-kills-Internet-access-if-you-use-Ethernet-back...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1585890/highli...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1585994/highli...

 

Disable IGMP on Managed Switches if present:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-MR-2-1-Update-3-23-18/m-p/1553749/highlight/true#M30673
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Using-Router-Configured-as-Access-Point-Cannot-see-Satellites-...


@Further wrote:

When the wired backhaul is plugged into a satellite with an active wireless backhaul, a switching loop is created. Packets will be transmitted around the loop endlessly consuming all of the network bandwidth. I don’t know how netgear has tried to implement the transition from wireless to wired, but it isn’t easy and there clearly are issues. 

 

In datacenters switching loops loops are broken using something called a spanning tree protocol. STP is complicated and often results in a suboptimal network structure, so I doubt that netgear is using it. 

 

In any case, sticking with a wireless backhaul is a safe choice since it is netgear’s primary test scenario. 

 

 


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>Orbi RBK50 v2.5.1.16(Router Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200, Orbi CBK40, Orbi RBK50/RBK853, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 19 of 19