New - RBR50 / RBS50 Firmware Version 2.7.0.70 Officially Released

[lukpac]

Firmware updates are not just for feature updates and fixes, they are also for security updates. So “if it works, don’t fix it” isn’t necessarily a good idea.

[tagteam]

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@lukpac wrote:
Firmware updates are not just for feature updates and fixes, they are also for security updates. So “if it works, don’t fix it” isn’t necessarily a good idea.

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That is true, but consider the fact that the new firmware most likely also has security vulnerabilities the moment it is released. Sure, the old vulnerabilities have been fixed yet they existed from the moment of the old firmware's release and I, for some reason, did not have any issues with security. Thus, I'm not sure how to weigh the possibility of some sort of attack against the possibility of my entire setup being borked by attempting to manually install the new firmware.

[FURRYe38]

I manually update mine. Factory reset and system has been up and online since. Nothing borked here.

Basic Information
CPU Load 17.7616%
Memory Usage(Used/Total) 147MB/495MB
Flash Usage(Used/Total) 2955MB/4096MB
Network Session(Active/Total) 132/65536
System Uptime 04:18:24:45

[Mstrbig]

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@stewlevine wrote:

New Orbi owner here... is it normal for Netgear to push out firmware updates this slowly? My setup is sitting on 2.5.1.16 and not seeing any updates. Is consensus to just leave things be until they do? Are there sometimes issues in the checks when setup in AP mode?

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It appears if Circle and Armor, or at least Circle are activated, they may push the firmware. We manually updated the satellites and router to the latest firmware. We have not experienced any issues. Other users have. So, it may be better to take @FURRYe38's advice, if it's working don't update it.

[tagteam]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

I manually update mine. Factory reset and system has been up and online since. Nothing borked here.

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Nothing is borked here, either, ultimately. However, this particular update process was a bit too unnerving for my taste. It's rather odd because I have not had this experience in the past and my Orbi system has been working great for over 3 years.

[FURRYe38]

I agree. Doing any FW updates can be unnerving for sure. Not sure why some of us don't see this while others do. 

So a few things I do with Orbi and most any router before FW updates. 

Download the FW files and prep them, i.e. unpack them. 

Have a specific browser that you only use for FW updates. IE11, Edge Firefox or Opera. I've seen too many posts and bad experiences with Chrome so I personally avoid using Chrome for ANY FW updates. 

Clear out ALL broswer caches before starting the FW process. 

(I recommend disconnecting most, if not ALL connected devices from the system. I know that some of you may not be able to do this. You might find time for those of you who can to do this while everyone is away from home for a bit or all in bed or find time to schedule about 1 hour est. That you can perform this process. Some of you may be able to take the RBR off line as well. Something I like to do since I have a spare router, take the system back to my desk, do the update there, factory reset, setup from scratch, preconfigure the RBR and RBS. Once it's all setup.)

Apply the FW update to the RBS first then RBR lastly using a wired PC and the web browser. 

After the RBS and RBR have been updated, power OFF the RBS and RBR for 1 minute then back ON. 

Then conneting it back up to the ISP modem. Power cycle the modem OFF for 1 minute then back ON. Or you can do both Power OFF and back on with the ISP modem and RBR/RBS at the same time. 

Usually this process seems to work well. 

If users find problems after doing all this, then a factory reset and setup from scratch maybe needed. Some of us just do this instead of doing the power cycle after sending the FW. It makes sure the FW has been fully installed and seated well and clears out any possible lingering prior FW code and ensure a good clean setup. 

After the system is back on line and services and devices are reconnected and have been tested, its good to make a new backup configuration to file here. This is a good point and stage to do this so if a reset is needed again at some point, then reset and re-load the config from file and you'll be back onilne with in minutes. 

I prefer not to enable Armor or Circle before doing the backup config to file and would recommend doing this before enabling either of these feature apps. 

[FURRYe38]

For posterity and FYI, for those users with switches in between the RBR and RBS, two or more switches in daisy chain, will find that with v70 loaded on the RBR in AP mode and RBS, the RBS when ethernet connected will or may experience an ARP storm on your network and or bad behavior on the Orbi system. I have since downgraded back to v16 and do not experience this problem. Information has been passed to NG support for review and has been made aware. 

I didn't get a chance to test out router mode on the RBR...

Otherwise v70 seemed to work well. 

[FURRYe38]

FYI for users out side of the USA and Canada region wanting to use v70 FW:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Why-only-US-Region-for-Firmware-2-7-0-70/m-p/1986934/highlight...

[stewlevine]

So, my RBR50 and RBS50 finally pulled down firmware updates today (Oct 6), but pulled down 2.5.2.4, not 2.7.0.70. I am currently on 2.5.1.16 and am in the United States. Does this seem normal?

[FURRYe38]

Yes. Not everyone may see v70. This one was directed towards a new kind of parental and Circle app controls. Users can apply this if you want too. However if you don't use Circle, I would probably avoid it. 

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@stewlevine wrote:

So, my RBR50 and RBS50 finally pulled down firmware updates today (Oct 6), but pulled down 2.5.2.4, not 2.7.0.70. I am currently on 2.5.1.16 and am in the United States. Does this seem normal?

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[GMoGoody8]

Yeah, I’m thinking I should have waited. I manually applied and don’t use either feature. I have a client stuck in the wrong profile because the default limit is 20 and I moved the wrong one.

Also don’t want to rock the boat loading a another firmware as everything else is great and have faster speeds from the previous fw.

[lukpac]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

Yes. Not everyone may see v70. This one was directed towards a new kind of parental and Circle app controls. Users can apply this if you want too. However if you don't use Circle, I would probably avoid it. 

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@stewlevine wrote:

So, my RBR50 and RBS50 finally pulled down firmware updates today (Oct 6), but pulled down 2.5.2.4, not 2.7.0.70. I am currently on 2.5.1.16 and am in the United States. Does this seem normal?

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Where is it stated 2.7.0.70 was "directed towards a new kind of parental and Circle app controls"? There are several things in the release notes unrelated to those:

New Features and Enhancements:

• Supports Smart Parental Control
• Supports forcing HTTPS for the web GUI management

Bug Fixes:

• Fixes the issue where Option 61 could not use the “@” character in the Internet setup GUI page.
• Fixes the issue where the Nintendo switch failed to connect to the Internet after the Orbi installation due to IP conflicts.
• Fixes the issue where the VPN passthrough configuration could not be saved using the web GUI.
• Fixes the issue where the client devices potentially could not access the Internet after enabling Circle.
• Fixes security issues

[Mstrbig]

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@GMoGoody8 wrote:
Yeah, I’m thinking I should have waited. I manually applied and don’t use either feature. I have a client stuck in the wrong profile because the default limit is 20 and I moved the wrong one.

Also don’t want to rock the boat loading a another firmware as everything else is great and have faster speeds from the previous fw.

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There is nothing wrong with 2.7.0.70 as long as it was installed properly. And if one has issues, a simple factory reset solves it.

With that said you are better off with the new firmware because of the posted fixes. I find it faster and more reliable under power loss reset.

Regarding the stuck client, the fix is to forget and reset the network on the client and install it as if it is the first time.

I had 1 TV, 1 laptop and several cameras having the same issue. After resetting them they all report correctly.

[BrianRL]

WARNING: 2.7.0.70 FAILURE AHEAD

I had 2.7.0.70 on my RBR50 and a single satellite for a while now. Since it came out, actually. Everything seemed fine and super solid for the most part, just this annoying spike in ping every minute or so.

Eventually that spike got to me. It was really only noticeable when wifi calling where that ping would translate into a pause in audio. Not a mute or loss second of audio, a pause, as though the other person just stopped talking for a moment and then resumed where they left off. It would cause a desync between me and whomever I was talking to as I was waiting for a sentence to finish that had already done so a second before.

I decided to see if I could narrow down the setting or option causing the spikes. I did as I usually do; one feature at a time, applying or resetting in between to see if it did anything. But the only change I was able to make, and the only one I ever made since being on this firmware, was turning off Fast Roaming.

For the next 6 and a half hours I could do NOTHING to get my various devices back online. Except for a computer I had hardwired, it was a crapshoot every router reset what devices might connect. Between laptops, phones, and a couple three dozen smart switches only about 20 devices would connect.

I reset the settings I had changed. I had powered down and let rest the router and satellite. I had removed a couple of the offending devices to see if they would come back. Nothing. I never used Access Control, Circle, or any other filtering, but I turned on Access Control to just see of allowing devices by default would help. Nope. Lastly, I factory reset the whole thing and tried to set it all up. NO CHANGE.

Finally, in a last bid desperate effort, I grabbed the last firmware before this one, 2.5.2.4, and flashed that onto the router. The satellite DID NOT LIKE THIS and refused to connect until I factory reset it by itself. But after getting the router to 2.5.2.4 all my devices reconnected and I have been on it the rest of the day.

No word yet on if the ping spikes are still around...

I do not recommend.

[FURRYe38]

How was the FW updated? Manually or auto update?

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update?

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@BrianRL wrote:

WARNING: 2.7.0.70 FAILURE AHEAD

I had 2.7.0.70 on my RBR50 and a single satellite for a while now. Since it came out, actually. Everything seemed fine and super solid for the most part, just this annoying spike in ping every minute or so.

Eventually that spike got to me. It was really only noticeable when wifi calling where that ping would translate into a pause in audio. Not a mute or loss second of audio, a pause, as though the other person just stopped talking for a moment and then resumed where they left off. It would cause a desync between me and whomever I was talking to as I was waiting for a sentence to finish that had already done so a second before.

I decided to see if I could narrow down the setting or option causing the spikes. I did as I usually do; one feature at a time, applying or resetting in between to see if it did anything. But the only change I was able to make, and the only one I ever made since being on this firmware, was turning off Fast Roaming.

For the next 6 and a half hours I could do NOTHING to get my various devices back online. Except for a computer I had hardwired, it was a crapshoot every router reset what devices might connect. Between laptops, phones, and a couple three dozen smart switches only about 20 devices would connect.

I reset the settings I had changed. I had powered down and let rest the router and satellite. I had removed a couple of the offending devices to see if they would come back. Nothing. I never used Access Control, Circle, or any other filtering, but I turned on Access Control to just see of allowing devices by default would help. Nope. Lastly, I factory reset the whole thing and tried to set it all up. NO CHANGE.

Finally, in a last bid desperate effort, I grabbed the last firmware before this one, 2.5.2.4, and flashed that onto the router. The satellite DID NOT LIKE THIS and refused to connect until I factory reset it by itself. But after getting the router to 2.5.2.4 all my devices reconnected and I have been on it the rest of the day.

No word yet on if the ping spikes are still around...

I do not recommend.

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[COMountainGoat]

Factory reset should not be a required step for a firmware update.  That's windows 3.1 era troubleshooting.

I work in security, so get the need to keep up with firmware changes, but Availablity is also a key component of the CIA triad, and Netgear's firmware updates hit that hard.  Forcing users to make a tradeoff between security patches and reliabiltiy/stability isn't good.

[Mstrbig]

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@COMountainGoat wrote:

Factory reset should not be a required step for a firmware update.  That's windows 3.1 era troubleshooting.

I work in security, so get the need to keep up with firmware changes, but Availablity is also a key component of the CIA triad, and Netgear's firmware updates hit that hard.  Forcing users to make a tradeoff between security patches and reliabiltiy/stability isn't good.

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Actually the only problem with firmware updates is the human element. The only logical explanation as to why some users can update successfuly and others can't is because some install steps were missed or performed out of sequence, or a glitch happened during the update, requiring another firmware flash. If that happens with the Orbi system, the only remedy is to factory reset the router and satellites and re-flash the firmware on the satellites first, then the router. 25 plus Orbi systems running strong on Version 2.7.0.70 with no performance issues, device malfunctions or incompatibility issues, have proven to me that 2.7.0.70 is stable and performing well. All systems updated have better coverage and speed as well.

The only issue I've seen is the GUI not reporting properly, which was relayed to me by Netgear, that they are working on that now. However, this does not in any way affect the system performance. And if in doubt you can go to the specific device and see what router or satellite it is connected to. 

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[FURRYe38]

Well factory resets have been long time standing troubleshootng step and valid for some issues. There are many things that effect routers and FW wich differs from anything security. 

Good Luck though.

[lukpac]

Actually the only problem with firmware updates is the human element. The only logical explanation as to why some users can update successfuly and others can't is because some install steps were missed or performed out of sequence, or a glitch happened during the update, requiring another firmware flash.

We don't know that. It's just as possible that there are bugs that only exist for certain configurations, only happen under certain conditions, etc.

Well factory resets have been long time standing troubleshootng step and valid for some issues. There are many things that effect routers and FW wich differs from anything security. 

They are a troubleshooting step for lazy developers. "You have a problem? Just start over, maybe that will help."

It's not very helpful to suggest a complete reset every time someone has a problem.

[FURRYe38]

Well there is the human element. There are misconfigurations and users that may not understand fully how to configure routers or have bad configurations. Due to many different possible configurations, anything can happen and again the human element is a factor. Routers don't configure themselves. 

Been using Factory resets for years after FW updates. Good operation of routers using this step. 

Good Luck though. 

[lukpac]

If a particular configuration works fine with one firmware version, it doesn’t really make sense that it would be “bad” with another firmware version. Other than because of a bug. But that’s not a user problem.

[BrianRL]

Whole lot of judgement happening in support thread...

I don't know about anyone else, but my experience was pretty straight-forward and clear. I was on 2.7.0.70 for nearly 3 months. If I had flashed it wrong (by doing the router before the satellites, or in some other way) it wasn't clear. Everything worked except for the pauses in wifi calling, and there was no other indication that anything was wrong or was about to go wrong.

I'm not exaggerating when I report that yesterday the only change I made was disabling Fast Roaming as a test. 59 connected devices prior, and then after the reboot only 5 or less would connect. Of course my first reaction was to just undo my change, reenable Fast Roaming, reboot, and let everything return back to the way things were, but that didn't work. Queue the 6-hour troubleshooting session that included a factory reset toward the tail-end. Reverting to 2.5.2.4 fixed the issue.

That's not to say I couldn't go back to 2.7.0.70 now. I want to wait a bit and see if there is any real reason to do so.

[Mstrbig]

My RBR50 router or RBS50 satellite is no different than anyone elses.

The differences would be the way the system is setup, placement, interference, user configuration, cabling, switches used, devices, ISP, bad firmware flash and more.

So if my many installed systems are running completely stable on 2.7.0.70, omitting the 3rd party variables, yours should too. If not, aside from the above mentioned, the orbi may be defective.

[COMountainGoat]

A factory reset is a last-ditch effort, not a first step in troubleshooting, but let's separate two things.  There's issues upgrading (which isn't my point), and there's issues with the quality of the updates (which is).

The GUI issue isn't minor, and is absolutely something that should have been caught in a basic regression test - that's software QA 101.  That's just the latest example of releasing new firmware with significant defects and a sign that there are serious deficiencies in their SDLC.  We don't trust the updates not to break things - the Orbi hardware is great, but it takes a lot of fiddling, finessing, and fine tuning to get a stable network (especially given the long reboot cycle every time you change one setting on one page).

That's why they absolutely need to offer a way to permanently turn off all automatic updates.  Until they show they can release quality firmware, pushing it on unsuspecting users is unethical.    Right now, firmware updates can effectively be a DOS attack.  It's a shame that we're forced to choose between maintaining a stable and available network, and taking important security fixes, but that's where we're at.

[Mstrbig]

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@COMountainGoat wrote:

A factory reset is a last-ditch effort, not a first step in troubleshooting, but let's separate two things.  There's issues upgrading (which isn't my point), and there's issues with the quality of the updates (which is).

The GUI issue isn't minor, and is absolutely something that should have been caught in a basic regression test - that's software QA 101.  That's just the latest example of releasing new firmware with significant defects and a sign that there are serious deficiencies in their SDLC.  We don't trust the updates not to break things - the Orbi hardware is great, but it takes a lot of fiddling, finessing, and fine tuning to get a stable network (especially given the long reboot cycle every time you change one setting on one page).

That's why they absolutely need to offer a way to permanently turn off all automatic updates.  Until they show they can release quality firmware, pushing it on unsuspecting users is unethical.    Right now, firmware updates can effectively be a DOS attack.  It's a shame that we're forced to choose between maintaining a stable and available network, and taking important security fixes, but that's where we're at.

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I totally disagree that a factory reset is the last ditch effort. Maybe it's because I've dealt with so many variables, I know when to perform one. So it boils down to wasting hours trying to find why the system is malfuntioning, or backup the system, factory update, re-install router, resync satellites and resrtore the backup. BOOM 30 to 45 minutes.

And I agree that the GUI issue isn't minor. But at the same time users should not be obsessed with it either. Devices may jump to another satellite if one has heavy traffic, interference causing a bad connection and more. If the system is stable and thr speed is good, stop checking the GUI or app every 5 minutes. Also it doesn't take, as you say, a lot of fiddling, finessing, and fine tuning to get a stable network. Install, maybe change 3 or 4 settings. And the rebooting cycle is no slower than Velop, Nest or any other router on the market. 

Regarding auto updates, I have NEVER had an Orbi RBR50 or RBS50, RBR750, RBS750, RBR850, RBS850, which we mostly use for our installs, ever do an auto update. I'll get a notification that a new update is available, but I have to either accept the update or check for updates and install. So obviously there is something stopping me from auto updating the firmware on these models.