Re: New firmware released 1.11.0.20

peteytesting · ‎2017-06-21

i was replying to @wchp comment with regard to backup

wchp · ‎2017-06-21

Flash008,

DarenM posted this:

"Re: New firmware released 1.11.0.20

‎2017-06-21 09:58 AM

Hello Flash008

orbi should not auto update to the live firmware if you are on the beta since it is version 1.11.0.80 which is higher than current firmware.

DarrenM"

So, if I understood DarenM .8 is actually .80 so .20 should not be newer, yet what he posted and what I am experiencing are at odds.

I am running .8 beta, with a hard reset on both satellites and the router. Now it wants to automagically update me to .20 even though DarenM said that shouldn't happen.

An in-place upgrade should carry your config forward. It does but it seems the prior config is at odds with the newer firmware and I am just reporting on what I saw prior to and then post hard reset.

Each time Netgear sends me a new beta the procedure I follow is.

1) make sure I have the prior version of firmware local

2) backup current config

3) update both satellites

4) update router

5) See if the whole network comes back up post updates

6) Hard Reset both satellites and then the router

7) Configure as new

😎 Allow Router and Satellites to all come back up with from scratch config.

9) Rachio, Chamberlain, Honeywell (2), Amazon Echo, Dots (8) and Tap, Harmony, Belkin, Yamaha (2), Xbox, Sonos (9), Linksys media link (2), Android devices (3), Rokus (3), Arlo Hub, iPhone 7, iPhhone 5S, iMac27 2014, MacBook Pro late 2016 OS Siera) all come back on without a touch.

10) Apple TV2, Apple TV3 (2), Apple TV4, Wink Hub2 and iSmart Alarm Spot camera require a power cycle.

11) iPhone 5C and 6 and 6s, iPad Mini1 and Mini2, 2011 MBP (2), 2012 MBP, 2013 MBA cycle WiFi.

-Reboot router for any reason, repeat steps 10 and 11

-Apple TV4 and Wink Hub2 struggle to stay connected (1-3 daily loss)

-Cable Modem, Untangle Firewall and Orbi Router all plugged into Battery Backup with sine wave stabilized supply

-I manually set Orbi to Chan 1 on 2.4GHz and 48 on 5GHz. I trick the Arlo hub into staying on Chan 11 2.4GHz.

-No Guest WiFi

-No Parental controls

-MUMIMO and Beamforming enabled or disabled in any combination makes no perceivable difference on x.x.x.8

-Orbi satellites cause RF interference if placed within 6 feet of motion sensing switches (lights keeping turning on and off)

Hope all this helps

Flash008 · ‎2017-06-21

Hey Netgear,

Simple solution.

Very SIMPLE.

Hope you can handle it since giving us an option to disable autoupdate seems too hard for you.

Recompile the .8 beta with a version of .80. This should allow Orbi to understand that 80 is greater than 20.

I think Orbi is using SIMPLE math. 20 is greater than 8.

peteytesting · ‎2017-06-21

just to and clear this up

what i think has happened .20 is based on a slighty older vw version but is reported as stable , .8 is a slightly newer fw that was released to some for testing in the wild , the next fw release will address this which wont be that far away which should be a combination of the 2 releases , the .8 was a test fw for some who had stability issues .20 is the release candidate

well thats how i read it

Flash008 · ‎2017-06-21

So, you are saying when I wake up and find my Orbi updated to the .20 (devices dropping every 30 seconds) I need to downgrade (upgrade) to .8 (oh, wait, I mean .80), then another hard reset to wipe the .20 config?

And, I may need to do this a few times until Netgear releases a newer version number which contains the .8 fixes (sorry, I meant .80), and any other changes they make?

LOL....And you find this acceptable?

You believe that DarrenM and Netgear Support telling us that Orbi should not auto update, even though it is happening, is not a CLEAR demonstration that the left hand has NO CLUE what the right hand is doing.

The fact it has taken 8+ code releases in 90+ days to get .8 working (sorry again, I meant .80), but not .20 (as DarrenM has stated).

I am not attacking you, just asking if you feel this is normal and acceptable behavior for a company who claims to be premium and who priced Orbi is a premium range.

I have had busy past 2-3 weeks which means I haven’t had time to replace Orbi, and I am holding hope that ASUS Lyra is released soon. Many are saying July. I am ready to pull the trigger on UBNT, but Lyra is attractive.

And a small, dim-burning, PRAYER that Orbi “somehow” gets fixed and matures (beyond “working”) within the next 30 days.

Come on, you must admit that Orbi has taken many steps backwards. We went from, what node your client is using, then to ONLY connected client with 2G, 5G, Wired, now to ONLY connected wired or wireless.

No auto-update option to disable, no true mesh (as Netgear stated they were planning for that months ago)……

At what point do you say, “I got played”.

wchp · ‎2017-06-21

So...

As a tester of BETA firmware, I simply presume if it happens to be working I found something I can report.

So I am running 1.11.0.8

Orbi Router now says there is a newer version of the firmware.

I believe the consensus (from the other thread) is that as long as you don't restart your router it won't automagically upgrade you.

Support has advised us NOT to upgrade from .8 to .20

DarenM Stated that .8 is actually .80 so it won't upgrade

Our routers disagree with DarenM

SO...

If someone who is running .8 and whose router is displaying the message there is a newer version of firmware wants to restart their router, and report back to us here on this thread, we will know if .20 will, in fact, auto install. (Not me, sticking to .8 for the time being).

IF it does, in fact, do an auto upgrade that means you should also do a hard reset and re-set up your system.

As end users, we can only speculate on the WHYs of the versions and fixes. As beta testers, it is our responsibility to report WHAT we are experiencing with the version they provide us.

The net-net here is something is broken (maybe its just our devices that aren't actually behaving or out of standard). Sounds like some folks have had improvements on .8 and are upset about the potential loss of functionality again. If you don't want to get your hopes up by running a beta and then having it break again, don't run the Beta. After a mostly peaceful 2 days (except for the DARN WINK HUB2 and ATV4) things are fairly peaceful for me so I am going to hope as long as I don't restart, I can stay where I am till they release the next beta. Seems to me its the same group of folks here and on the other two threads that are having the issues (myself included) and I

Seems to me its the same group of folks here and on the other two threads that are having the issues (myself included) and I wonder, if we are the exception, or if more folks are just blissfully oblivious to the issue.

Hmmmm

So, who on .8 is going to reboot?

P.S. if you use a website grabber and download the entire Orbi Interface, there is a javascript for the firmware update page with a section to disable auto-update rem'd out. Who knows, again not my place to know if that is a future feature placeholder, a carry over from other code or they were just teasing me. 😉

wchp · ‎2017-06-21

RE: "If someone who is running .8 and whose router is displaying the message there is a newer version of firmware wants to restart their router, and report back to us here on this thread, we will know if .20 will, in fact, auto install. (Not me, sticking to .8 for the time being)."

Is no one going to bite?

Signed NOT ME

Flash008 · ‎2017-06-21

As with the 100s of Beta’s I have “played” with over the years, it has mostly been due to curiosity into the future. I used those betas with full knowledge NEVER to complain about stability and features I would like to have. You accept Betas “as they are”, and not what you want them to be. And yes, report back your experaince(s). Of course, you ask for new features, but never hold your breathe for it.

With Netgear Orbi, the features I am asking for are not “enhancements”, but rather fixes to very popular and known problems with Orbi.

The problem we have with Orbi is the GA releases are not stable, they don’t work, and using them renders some of our Orbis’ useless.

Hence, we are forced to use beta code to make our product work.

Typically, OEMs keep their most stable code available as GA for all to download and use.

Seems Netgear has this backwards.

“Let’s put our most unstable and buggy code on our update servers which will force an update onto EVERYONE. But, we will allow our beta testers to have the working version(s), But, since they can’t disable auto update we will make their lives HELL by updating their product to the GA unstable version every 48-72 hours, if they don’t do it themselves.”

Having been using Netgear betas now for a few weeks/months. I can tell you that if Orbi can see a newer code version it will download it, and it will not update immediately. But 2-3 days later I can see my devices dropping. I login, and guess what…it updated itself. Reboot was not required.

Now, tell me what would happen if Apple, Samsung, Cisco, Microsoft, Dell-EMC, Juniper, ASUS, and the other BIG NAME tech companies did things this way.

We would crucify them! Which is why they DON’T DO IT THIS WAY.

Sure, nag to me, annoy me to death, that a new update is available. But give me the option to ignore and reject it.

How many GA releases have we seen other tech firms PULL from their servers because something didn’t work and was causing mass problems. They didn’t turn their users into beta testers, and for those who chose to be testers knew what they were signing up for and did not have bad code shoved down their throat. If you didn’t like the beta, if it caused too many headaches, you backed out to the stable GA version. But usually the GA version is stable.

Sorry, not seeing your point concerning Netgear’s policy.

toddcarothers · ‎2017-06-21

So the 1.11.0.20 toasted my Orbis... I had to get new devices (NETGEAR I am sending the old ones back). So I have 1 router and 3 satelittes. They had 1.4.x.x on them... I went to update to 1.11.0.20... As the directions said I manual updated... but or some reason the router updated itself.... Now I can't see the sateleites... what to do?

Flash008 · ‎2017-06-21

toddcarothers,

Ask Netgear of they have a recovery tool.

I know ASUS has a tool that can take a bricked device and force-reload firmware onto it, but it only works for ASUS devices.

I don’t know if Netgear has this ability.

Understand that ASUS is a very OPEN company and allows third-party firmware to be used. Hence, they have this tool to save those who are in your shoes.

Another thing to try, is to plugin the sats via Ethernet and see if they take IPs. Login to the sats directly, and re-apply the firmware.

I had a beta do the same to me a while ago (sats would not re-connect). Needed to connect my laptop directly to the Sat and reload the firmware.

wchp · ‎2017-06-21

Try pressing the sync buttons first...

"To sync your Orbi router and satellite:

Make sure that the router and satellite are receiving power.
Press the Sync button on the router.
Within two minutes, press the Sync button on the satellite.
Note: The location of the Sync button varies depending on the model of your satellite.
Your Orbi router and satellite are synced."

https://kb.netgear.com/31018/How-do-I-sync-my-Orbi-router-and-satellite

You could also download and install the older version of firmware on the router and then note the IP addresses of the satellites and navigate to those and update the satellites first with the newer firmware and then the router. (If you go to support, Orbi, Downloads, previous versions, they are all there.) http://www.netgear.com/support/product/Orbi.aspx#download

If nothing else works, paper clip to the reset button and set up again from scratch (for the router and all the satellites).

toddcarothers · ‎2017-06-21

Thx. All wokring now...

ktd · ‎2017-06-21

Crap! Now I’m on .20 too.

I just updated my support case for the beta and asked them to rerelease the beta with a higher version number.

This really is an amateur move by Netgear...

NetSyphon · ‎2017-06-22

after 20+ years of IT, sh*t shouldnt work this way.

vtrusty · ‎2017-06-26

should i even apply this new firmware? i've seen nothing but issues with it from the Orbi community.

ive ever really experienced any network disconnects, but i'm pretty annoyed that my devices can't/won't switch between the router and satellite. i've also seem some lag/buffering when using amazon fire box (currently on V1.10.1.2).

ktd · ‎2017-06-26

No, either see if you can get into the beta program or hang in there for the stable release of the current beta which works really good.
As I understand .20 doesn’t do anything to improve all issues.

Michaelsoft · ‎2017-06-26

@vtrusty

I've noticed no improvements with the beta firmware. Disconnects wer never really my biggest problem so it may have fixed that, I am not sure. My problem is the slow/flucuating speeds that I've narrowed down to Orbi being the cause. I think you should still try the beta because it may work for you like many people are reporting but there are still problems that need to be addressed. Good luck!

cmschleich · ‎2017-06-28

"How do you become a beta tester"

Buy the product, congratulations you're the tester of a beta release, whether they call it that or not. Good lord hire a new QC manager.

YabbadabbaDoooo · ‎2017-06-29

I have the RBK40 and in the two months I have owned it experienced every problem listed on these forums.... fluctuating speeds, random disconnects, SSID disappearing, etc.. Tech Support was just a time waster. I went on vacation and when I returned, I noticed I was getting consistent top end speeds near the router and satellite, with no degradation. This whole week I haven't had a single problem. I had the return label printed out to send the piece of crap back to Amazon....now? I am hopeful that the new FW release "fixed" at least the RBR40. I can't seem to get many confirmations from others on that as most seem to have the RBK50. Anyway, just thought I would share that for now, the new release has my system running better than it did when I first plugged it in. I hope I don't regret not returning it but since it works as advertized now it would be hard to give up. Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?

Flash008 · ‎2017-06-29

YabbadabbaDoooo,

I am happy for you. But, like many others, I have given up.

I appreciate Netgear finally getting Orbi to a "stable", "working" state. But it still requires much progress and Netgear has used all of us a tester forcefully. You cannot call your testers volunteers when you have a product that does not work, leaving no other option. They have shown so much immaturity, and a very serious lack of support and customer care.

You seem to be new to the club, so you most likely cannot appreciate that fact it’s taken MONTHS to get Orbi to a “working” state.

I have given up. My expectation of Netgear has been lowered very far, that simply getting a response from them is a good thing. Making Orbi work is a good thing.

That should not be the bar that Netgear sets for us. Simply making your product work, and being kind enough to respond is a VERY minimal expectation.

I promised I would wait through June for Netgear to take us seriously.

It is now June 29. And yes, Orbi is working better than before, “on the current beta firmware”.

But my frustrations with Netgear have run deep, as with many others. I have my eyes set on UBNT and ASUS Lyra. And, as time would set fate. ASUS Lyra launches July 1. I think I will give it a try.

ASUS and UBNT are very solid companies who are very customer focused, and they keep their products updated constantly. They are also very OPEN, allowing you to do many great things with their products. Neither are perfect and they have had their mistakes, but they quickly own it and do everything they can to fix it. They are open to outside developers and allow third-parties to modify the ASUS code for fixes and added features. Both can be simple, or advanced.

Sorry, Orbi was the first Netgear product I had tried in years. I wanted something simple. Something that looked less high-tech. But performed well.

Netgear failed big time for me. And I no longer trust them. It was not the Orbi problems that showed me who they are. It was how they responded, and didn’t respond. Almost like they didn’t care, or didn’t know what to do. Either way, not good enough for me.

If Lyra or UBNT works for me in the coming weeks. My Orbi is going on EBay. It’s almost 1 year old and they just got it working. And I don’t see Netgear caring about Orbi 1.0 in 6-12 months.

Retired_Member · ‎2017-06-30

Very well said. I've had nothing but frustration with the Orbi and the quality of Netgear support. I've kept going as the device has potential and I really want it to work but I'm at the end of my patience. They took months to fix the BT TV issue. The next public release then broke it again. I couldn't downgrade to the working firmware as Orbi would auto-update itself to the latest one. I'm now on v1.12.0.12 which fixes BT TV but I have drop out issues for mobile devices, problems getting the satellite to sync and my Belkin Netcam will no longer connect. I also can't use the advanced features like Implicit Beamforming.

Completely unacceptable for such an expensive device.

cmschleich · ‎2017-06-30

Be sure to go put this in reviews somewhere like Amazon, Costco, their Facebook page, etc. Something is up with all these rave reviews vs the experience we are having.

I finally got mine working on a final attempt before I was driving the POS to Costco and getting a refund. I learned the trick is to ignore what the router interface says about the satellites. Given I'm accustomed to accurate user interfaces I lost 2 or 3 hours troubleshooting because of that alone. The number of times I had to reboot these things during config because a basic setting change didn't take cleanly has been maddening. I used a needle at one point to hard reset a satellite because changes wouldn't propagate correctly. And have you ever seen a modern device take so long to reboot, refresh, sync? Man all those little 1 to 3 minute delays add up when things aren't working.

I'm in stability testing mode. Costco box is still in my room waiting as the next option. EERO 2 is out in a week or two.

YabbadabbaDoooo · ‎2017-06-30

@Flash008 wrote:
YabbadabbaDoooo,

You seem to be new to the club, so you most likely cannot appreciate that fact it’s taken MONTHS to get Orbi to a “working” state.

Flash, I agree with everything you said and while I am new to joining/posting on this forum, I am NOT new to reading it. Nor am I new to the frustration experienced with Netgear. I have spent months now trying to get my system just to work right. Thankfully I had the knowledge of folks like you from this forum to keep me from trying all of the useless things Tech Support would ask of me. Most of the time they were things I had already done or things that I knew would have no effect other than making me feel like something was being done.

Still I wasted hours of my precious time dealing with the recurring issues and lobbied Amazon to give me a full refund even though I was past the return date. I had the label printed and was ready to drop kick the POS back as soon as I got back from a vacation. When I got back, the new FW had updated and since then I have posted in various threads that the new FW update seems to have fixed all of the problems I had been experiencing. I was hoping for some confirmation that others were seeing the same things so I could be confident in NOT returning it. It appears the release was really for the RBK40 so many with the 50 did not have any change.

All I can say at this point is that for the past week I have had zero signal drops, internet disconnects and speed fluctuations. I am getting my equivalent hard wired speeds on both the router and the satellite so I guess I am lucky. In the end, I am not at all happy with the way Netgear handled this and have posted honest reviews in multiple places. I hope the system stays stable since at this point I don't want to return it while it is actually working as advertized.

Thanks for your reply and it sounds like you have been more patient than any customer should have to be. Best of luck to you.

YabbadabbaDoooo · ‎2017-06-30

@cmschleich wrote:
Be sure to go put this in reviews somewhere like Amazon, Costco, their Facebook page, etc. Something is up with all these rave reviews vs the experience we are having.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew and CM... I am NOT giving Netgear any rave reviews. See my response to Flash. The one thing I asked was if anyone else has the RBK40 and if so, were their problems apparently fixed like mine. Are all of you operating the RBK50?

Also, while I may be happy that I have a working system (for now) I am NOT a satisfied customer based on what all I went through and how things were handled. I have given honest reviews on Amazon and will be doing the same on others. The title of all will be "Do not buy this product". The one I posted on Amazon garnered a reply from Netgear asking me to send them all my ticket numbers, etc.. so they could "get to the bottom of things". I haven't replied yet but I will. What I will say simply is that Netgear needs to channel their energy into getting to the bottom of the core flaws they are well aware of instead of giving customer the runaround, wasting our precious time.

cmschleich · ‎2017-06-30

Wasn't accusing anyone here of giving rave reviews, what I meant was on those websites the existing reviews are 4+ starts out of 5. And I don't understand how that is possible, it's not like this is fish from the grocery story, it's an engineered product. I have RBK53.

I feel differently, I don't forgive them for the design issues. Technical support is bad at most places 9 out of 10 times so that's an expectation of mine. What I don't expect is for my product to have this many bugs in it such that I waste hours of my time setting up something BASIC! Sure it's complicated behind the scenes, but this is what they do, it's their specialty! It's not like I bought this from a company that makes bikes, but that's what the quality feels like, haha