Re: ORBI RBK50 ethernet backhaul is not working - help

jerich0 · ‎2020-04-15

I have an existing RBK50 setup with 2 RBS50 satellites connecting via wireless to the RBR50, this setup is working great, but because of working from home, i've had to set up a home office in the basement (long story... kids took over the real study) I recently got an additional RBS50 to place in the basement, and was plannign to use ethernet backhaul to try and get the best connectivity in the basement. I read on this community that a mix of eithernet and wireless backhaul works, so this is what i did.

First, firmware is V2.5.1.8 on all the devices. RBK50 is running AP mode. My router is a Ubiquiti Edgerouter-X with dual WAN load balancing (both WANs are each max 500Mbps, fast.com average gets 400-450Mbps on ethernet). I'm using the web UI, but also the mobile app (as the mobile app seems to show a little more information, eg. it is supposed to show the ethernet backhaul as a solid line...) So here goes..

I first set up the RBS50 in the basement as a wireless mesh, daisy chain on RBK50 is turned on, everything syncs up fine, seems to work fine - i get around 150-200 Mbps on fast.com. WebUI shows all 3 satellites with good connections on 5Ghz. All satellites and router in AP mode have reserved IP addresses on the Ubiquiti
After this is working, i plugged in an ethernet cable from a switch (Netgear managed GS908) to the RBS50. The satellite first went magenta, then seemed to work. However, the webUI still shows connected with 5Ghz, it doesn't show wired. On the mobile UI, it was weirder... The basement satellite was seen as connecting to another satellite in the main floor, which was connecting to the main RBK50...
So i went to turn off daisy chain, and it rebooted everything... but to make it more confusing, the mobile app shows magenta state and still dotted line (wireless) To make this worse, when you tap on the mobile app to the magenra satellite, you dont' see any devices connected to them, they seem to be connecting to some of the other satellites (it's random!) Fast.com speed tests on the devices in the basement all have not showed improvement - still 150-200Mbps, but they also now have occassional drops to 50-80Mbps once in a while, for no reason.

As such, i've sinced removed the ethernet cable to the basement satellite, and is living with what it provide. That said, i'm curious why this is not working right? Any advice here? It sounds like this is a scenario that should have just worked.

thanks.

Retired_Member · ‎2020-04-15

V2.5.1.8 ...........not good

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-04-15

Review this:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

Be sure the connection between the RBS and RBR is on the same segment, serially behind the RBR, and not parallel to the RBR.

If your using a managed swtich, be sure to disable ALL IGMP protocols and green ethernet features on the switch as these have been known to cause problems between RBR and RBS when ethernet connected.

This isn't a FW problem.

@jerich0 wrote:
I have an existing RBK50 setup with 2 RBS50 satellites connecting via wireless to the RBR50, this setup is working great, but because of working from home, i've had to set up a home office in the basement (long story... kids took over the real study) I recently got an additional RBS50 to place in the basement, and was plannign to use ethernet backhaul to try and get the best connectivity in the basement. I read on this community that a mix of eithernet and wireless backhaul works, so this is what i did.

First, firmware is V2.5.1.8 on all the devices. RBK50 is running AP mode. My router is a Ubiquiti Edgerouter-X with dual WAN load balancing (both WANs are each max 500Mbps, fast.com average gets 400-450Mbps on ethernet). I'm using the web UI, but also the mobile app (as the mobile app seems to show a little more information, eg. it is supposed to show the ethernet backhaul as a solid line...) So here goes..
I first set up the RBS50 in the basement as a wireless mesh, daisy chain on RBK50 is turned on, everything syncs up fine, seems to work fine - i get around 150-200 Mbps on fast.com. WebUI shows all 3 satellites with good connections on 5Ghz. All satellites and router in AP mode have reserved IP addresses on the Ubiquiti
After this is working, i plugged in an ethernet cable from a switch (Netgear managed GS908) to the RBS50. The satellite first went magenta, then seemed to work. However, the webUI still shows connected with 5Ghz, it doesn't show wired. On the mobile UI, it was weirder... The basement satellite was seen as connecting to another satellite in the main floor, which was connecting to the main RBK50...
So i went to turn off daisy chain, and it rebooted everything... but to make it more confusing, the mobile app shows magenta state and still dotted line (wireless) To make this worse, when you tap on the mobile app to the magenra satellite, you dont' see any devices connected to them, they seem to be connecting to some of the other satellites (it's random!) Fast.com speed tests on the devices in the basement all have not showed improvement - still 150-200Mbps, but they also now have occassional drops to 50-80Mbps once in a while, for no reason.
As such, i've sinced removed the ethernet cable to the basement satellite, and is living with what it provide. That said, i'm curious why this is not working right? Any advice here? It sounds like this is a scenario that should have just worked.

thanks.

plemans · ‎2020-04-15

1. is any of the satellites on a differnent wan/lan from the router?

2. There's some tips for managed switches using orbi backhaul: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-Ethernet-Backhaul-with-Managed-Switches/td-p/1613897

Not saying this is all needed. My managed switch has run fine and i haven't had to do anything to it. I've been recommeneded to disable IGMP protocols but I figure if somethings working, its not worth changing.

3. Some have had better luck setting up the orbi satellites with the router running in router mode during setup, and then switching it over to AP mode. might be worth a shot.

4. to get proper connection display with my orbi i've done it in this route:

Modem---->my RAX router---->lan connection---->Orbi in AP mode (wan port)----->lan connection---->switch---->rest of satellites.

not sure if any of this helps

jerich0 · ‎2020-04-15

thanks Plemens,

1. they are all on a 192.168.1.x subnet

2. i read about disablign IGMP... but i'm reluctant to do that since it's been working super well for a long time.... that said, i did briefly try and unmanaged switch, and nothing seem to help... same issue with magenta dot in the mobile app, adn random speed drops... it just doesn't feel like Ethernet backhaul "took"

3. to switch to router mode then to AP mode feels like i will have some down time with the wifi - the goal was to minimize downtime, now that home network infrastructure is mission critical for the family 🙂

4. i have 2 satellites where ethernet doesn't go, so wouldn't be able to wire them all up either.. Right now, what i have is WAN-->ER-X-->RBR50-->Switch-->RBS50-basement which is as simple as i can imagine it to be.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-04-15

After swapping the switch out. What did the status say on the RBRs web page?

What is the mfr and model # of the unmanaged switch?

You might do this after you changed the switch out. Factory reset the RBS. First wirelessly connect the RBS to the RBR. Make sure the status appears on the RBR correctly. I would do this with the RBS in the same room as the RBR. Once done wirelessly. Connect the RBS via ethernet and let it auto re-sync. Check the status after about 5 minutes on the RBR. Should change to wired.

Green ethernet features seen on managed or non manged switchs can be another factor.

Historical posts regarding managed and green ethernet switches:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-MR-2-1-Update-3-23-18/m-p/1553749/highlight/true#M30673
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Using-Router-Configured-as-Access-Point-Cannot-see-Satellites-...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-Ethernet-Backhaul-with-Managed-Switches/m-p/1613897#M3812...
Green Switch: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/switching-requirements-for-ethernet-backhaul/m-p/1653718/highl...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Ready-to-chuck-this-system-through-the-window/m-p/1658470/high...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-AC3000-with-Cisco-SG112-24-Switch/m-p/1700690/highlight/t...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-Netgear-GS908E-100PES-Backhaul-Connection/m-p/1784425/hig...
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/RBR850-Access-Point-wired-backhaul-amp-security-issues/m-p/...

plemans · ‎2020-04-15

and the ERX is going to the wan port on RBR? And then a lan port off the RBR to the switch?

@FURRYe38's disabling IGMP would be worth trying

Retired_Member · ‎2020-04-15

remember post 2

theoak · ‎2020-04-15

I have an Orbi router and two satellites. One satellite is wired (port 1 from Orbi router to port 1 of Orbi satellite) directly to its router - nothing in the middle - just cable. The other is wifi backhaul. My Orbi system is in Access Point mode. I have a personal router connecting to the WAN port of the Orbi Router.

The router and and the wired satellite serve my downstairs. Think a rectangle with them positioned opposite diagonal corners. The wifi backhaul based serves my upstairs. Of course, depending on the device it will choose whatever access point it feels is best. The logical division however is reasonably held.

On reboot, I do find it takes the Orbi devices about 2 minutes to figure things out.

Are you using port 1 on both your router and satellite - with the switch in the middle? Anything else hanging off of that switch? Can you remove other devices off of the switch and see if that works? If yes, can you then isolate the Orbi to Orbi traffic in your managed switch?

Retired_Member · ‎2020-04-15

Ugh. Router Firmware: 2.5.1.8

jerich0 · ‎2020-04-17

i'm not getting the context on the bad firmware revision, is 2.5.1.8 that bad?

@Retired_Member wrote:
Ugh. Router Firmware: 2.5.1.8

Retired_Member · ‎2020-04-17

@jerich0 wrote:
i'm not getting the context on the bad firmware revision, is 2.5.1.8 that bad?
@Retired_Member wrote:
Ugh. Router Firmware: 2.5.1.8

do a search here....lots of complaints......how did you get 2.5.1.8 and WHY???

jerich0 · ‎2020-04-17

@Retired_Member wrote:
@jerich0 wrote:
i'm not getting the context on the bad firmware revision, is 2.5.1.8 that bad?
@Retired_Member wrote:
Ugh. Router Firmware: 2.5.1.8

do a search here....lots of complaints......how did you get 2.5.1.8 and WHY???

i did the update through the web UI - everything i read about ethernet backhaul had said "make sure you are on the latest firmware" - of course, those posts were written before 2.5.1.8 was out.

Without ethernet backhaul, 2.5.1.8 seems to be working OK so far... i don't have any of the spurious reboot issues i've read. Which is why i didn't understand the hate (and still don't)

Retired_Member · ‎2020-04-17

@jerich0 wrote:
@Retired_Member wrote:
@jerich0 wrote:
i'm not getting the context on the bad firmware revision, is 2.5.1.8 that bad?
@Retired_Member wrote:
Ugh. Router Firmware: 2.5.1.8

do a search here....lots of complaints......how did you get 2.5.1.8 and WHY???
i did the update through the web UI - everything i read about ethernet backhaul had said "make sure you are on the latest firmware" - of course, those posts were written before 2.5.1.8 was out.

Without ethernet backhaul, 2.5.1.8 seems to be working OK so far... i don't have any of the spurious reboot issues i've read. Which is why i didn't understand the hate (and still don't)

Hate???...I don't think folks hate 2.5.1.8 , just not pleased. If you do a search (and perhaps you already have) you will read some of the problems with 2.5.1.8 .

FYI....if you're system is working, it's always best to leave it alone. NG will push critical updates to automatically with no action on your part. I've been on the same firmware since October 2019 and have no desire to manually update.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-04-17

This is something that FW or reverting back will not fix as this will be a switch issue, not a FW issue. This will happen on any version of FW. My RBK50 satellite is working via ethernet connection behind 4 non manged HP ProCurve 1400/1800 daisy chained swtiches. v2.5.1.8 loaded since it first came out.

After swapping the switch out. What did the status say on the RBRs web page?

What is the mfr and model # of the unmanaged switch you swapped in?

You might do this after you changed the switch out. Factory reset the RBS. First wirelessly connect the RBS to the RBR. Make sure the status appears on the RBR correctly. I would do this with the RBS in the same room as the RBR. Once done wirelessly. Connect the RBS via ethernet and let it auto re-sync. Check the status after about 5 minutes on the RBR. Should change to wired.

Green ethernet features seen on managed or non manged switchs can be another factor.

Historical posts regarding managed and green ethernet switches

@jerich0

Retired_Member · ‎2020-04-17

This is something that FW or reverting back will not fix as this will be a switch issue, not a FW issue. This will happen on any version of FW

NOT TRUE...... v2.5.1.8 is not ready for prime time

OrbiBenR · ‎2020-07-14

I have the GS908 as well. I had to disable the loop back monitoring to get it to work.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-07-14

Thanks for letting us know. I'll keep loop back monitoring in mind as well. IGMP and green ethernet should also be disabled if possible.

Enjoy.

@OrbiBenR wrote:
I have the GS908 as well. I had to disable the loop back monitoring to get it to work.

jerich0 · ‎2020-07-15

@OrbiBenR wrote:
I have the GS908 as well. I had to disable the loop back monitoring to get it to work.

@OrbiBenR Thanks for the advice! i just turned off loopback on all my GS908 (there are 3 of them) in my home network, connected an ethernet cable to the RBS50, and i'm still seeing 5G connection on the web UI on the RBR50, as well as a purple dot using the mobile app. The router continues to work, but i'm not sure if its actually using the ethernet backhaul.

all i did was turn the RBS50 off, plug in a cable to the switch, then turn it back on. I'm hoping it would just pick up the ethernet backhaul, but it didn't - is there a different way to do this? i don't want to reset the entire mesh if possible.

thanks

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-07-15

Is IGMP and any green ethernet features on the switch disabled as well?

Best way to connect RBS is to wirelessly connect them first to the RBR. Once they are connected, then connect the ethernet cable between the RBR and RBS while the RBS is still ON. Then the connection will change over by itself if the connection thru the switch isn't inhibiting. You may want to try a different switch if you can't get the status to show a wired connection to the RBS.

jerich0 · ‎2020-07-15

@FURRYe38 wrote:
Is IGMP and any green ethernet features on the switch disabled as well?

Best way to connect RBS is to wirelessly connect them first to the RBR. Once they are connected, then connect the ethernet cable between the RBR and RBS while the RBS is still ON. Then the connection will change over by itself if the connection thru the switch isn't inhibiting. You may want to try a different switch if you can't get the status to show a wired connection to the RBS.

yes loop detection off, IGMP off. Power savings Off. I'm still getting a purple dot in the mobile app and 5G in the webUI. Frustrating. I bought netgear switches thinking this would "just work". sigh.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-07-15

Can you confirm that the RBS connects wired with out the switch in between? If the status shows as wired with the RBS directly conencted to the RBR then the issue is either a bad LAN cable or the switch is causing the problem.

OrbiBenR · ‎2020-07-15

I disabled all IGMP, I disabled all energy savings, I disabled diagnostics, and disabled loop back. Then I just power cycled the network switch and the image in the Orbi app changes from dotted line (wireless backhaul) to solid line (wired backhaul). Note my Orbi Voice is wired but I don’t have the RBS in a room yet with Ethernet so I need to wire that room first.

OrbiBenR · ‎2020-07-15

Correct. IGMP and all green settings also disabled. As is monitoring.

FURRYe38 · ‎2020-07-15

Hopefully this will help @jerich0