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Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

LanceD
Guide

Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

I've read through this board and have seen a few similar queries, but haven't found any answers to my issues in them so posting this.

 

After much tweaking and fiddling with router and satellite locations, I've got a good signal throughout my roughly 2400-sq-ft one-floor ranch house. The house is "L"-shaped, with the router near the cable modem about 1/3 of the way from the long end of the L, and the satellite on the same floor about 50 feet away (through one wall), closer to where the short end of the L intersects. In my basement office, naerly directly under the satellite, I am getting excellent speed, about 240MB/S, which is what my provider (Xfinity) says my plan offers. The bedroom at the top of the L, closer to the router and on the same floor, gets around 75MB/S, which isn't ideal but is okay given that that's the bedroom and I only use the WiFi for casual surfing and email on a Macbook Air there. (The basement iMac and an LG SmartTV in the short stick of the L benefit from the faster speeds I seem to get only from the satellite.)

 

Problem is, the connection randomly drops multiple times per day, at every location and on every device. Incredibly frustrating, as at my old apartment (about 1600 sq ft) using an Airport Extreme router with Airport Express extenders, I got far less speed (via Spectrum Internet) but an absolutely rock-solid connection. I think in the 7 years I lived there the connection might have dropped four or five times--in every case due entirely to Spectrum making fixes or adjustments to the line, not the WiFi itself.

 

Here's my current setup:

 

1) Xfinity Technicolor TC8717C modem/router with 200MB/S plan. I am using the router capabilities but the WiFi radios are disabled.

2) Orbi router set to AP mode, wired connection to router via LAN port.

3) Orbi RBR50 satellite about 50-60 feet away on same floor, just one bedroom wall between the two units (the satellite is next to an open archway entrance to the living room). I get a solid blue signal when connecting the two devices. Wireless backhaul.

4) Router set to 25% power on 2.4GHz channel, which seems to solve issues with devices latching on to the slower signal (the LG TV is particularly prone to doing this, even though it's closer to the satellite than the router).

5) Firmware: V2.3.5.30

6) Current advanced settings: Daisy-chain, MU-MIMO, fast roaming OFF. Beamforming ON. 2.4GHz 20/40 enabled, power 25%, Channel 6. 5GHz 100% power, Channel 44.

7) Most wireless clients are Apple devices (iPhones, Macbooks, IMac, AppleTV). One Windows desktop connected to Xfinity router via wired Ethernet.

 

I have tried all manner of changes: switching on an off such things as fast roaming, beamforming, MU-MIMO, different channels and power settings, etc. Still get random drops multiple times a day.

 

Anything else I could try?

Could my VPN (Nord) have anthing to do with this (I do get drops even when I'm not using VPN, though)?

Would it help to bridge the Xfinity modem/router and use the main RBR50 in router mode?

 

Again, this is really frustrating as I did a LOT of research before purchasing this not-inexpensive setup, and what I've found is that the Orbi has nowhere near the range I'd expected (I've tried a bunch of different locations for both transmitters) and the lack of a dependable signal may eventually drive me to scrap the whole thing--which I really hate to do, because when it's working it's great.

 

Thanks for your wisdom.

 

LD

 

 

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 34
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Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi


@LanceD wrote:

I've read through this board and have seen a few similar queries, but haven't found any answers to my issues in them so posting this.

...

Here's my current setup:

 

1) Xfinity Technicolor TC8717C modem/router with 200MB/S plan. I am using the router capabilities but the WiFi radios are disabled.

2) Orbi router set to AP mode, wired connection to router via LAN port.

...

Anything else I could try?

...


If the Orbi LAN is currently connected router LAN port, disconnect/reconnect Orbi yellow (WAN) port to TC8717C LAN port.

Message 2 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Thank you for the note. That is indeed how I have the modem and router connected (Xfinity LAN to Orbi WAN). Sorry I wasn't clear about that.

 

Message 3 of 34
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

In that case, disable Daisy-Chain and verify that backhaul signal is within dBM range, between -30dBm and -70dBm, by pointing your browser at http://orbilogin.com/online_upgrade_info.html.

 

Try forcing Orbi to use static IP address by assigning it an reserved IP address.  Here is an example of my AP staic IP/DNS.

 

Static IP AP Mode.png

Message 4 of 34
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Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi


@LanceD wrote:

 

Here's my current setup:

 

5) Firmware: V2.3.5.30

Please consider upgrading to the latest FW version v2.5.1.8, which has been stable for my RBK53.  More importantly, give Orbi time to settle down once it's been upgraded, typically 24 hours before mucking around with it unless Internet/Wifi stops working post FW upgrade.

Message 5 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Thanks for the detailed info.

 

1) I am already running with Daisy Chain disabled. Have never enabled it as I have only one satelite. Unless I should give that a try?

 

2) I am also already running a fixed IP for the Orbi router (which is running in AP mode as noted). This seemed to help with some intital problems of the Orbi dropping offline.

 

3) I will upgrade the firmware as you suggested and let it settle in; see how that goes.

 

4) Also, thank you for the tip on monitoring backhaul connection strength. I will test that out also.

 

 

Message 6 of 34
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Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi


@LanceD wrote:

Thanks for the detailed info.

 

1) I am already running with Daisy Chain disabled. Have never enabled it as I have only one satelite. Unless I should give that a try?

 

No.  Daisy-Chain is only required if Satellites are too far from main Orbi.  Otherwise, it's a performance penalty.

 

2) I am also already running a fixed IP for the Orbi router (which is running in AP mode as noted). This seemed to help with some intital problems of the Orbi dropping offline.

 

Nice.  Keep it as is.

 

3) I will upgrade the firmware as you suggested and let it settle in; see how that goes.

 

Yeah - if nothing else, it'll restore Orbi WiFi peak performance.

 

4) Also, thank you for the tip on monitoring backhaul connection strength. I will test that out also.

 

Circle back with update if possible.  Also, please verify which band is affected, 2.4GHz vs 5GH or both.


 

Message 7 of 34
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Here is an example of my current Wireless Settings, which seem to be working well with v2.5.1.8.  Might want to download NetSpot to check out WiFi channels congestion.  I found that "Auto" works best with 2.4GHz and pick an unused or least congested 5GHz channel.  Good luck!

 

v2.5.1.8 Wireless Settings.png

Message 8 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Thank you everyone for these very helpful suggestions.

 

I am going to update firmware (probably tomorrow) and will use the suggested utilities to scan my connection status.

 

More to come ...

Message 9 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Okay ... my Orbi system is now running firmware V2.5.1.8; the update appeared to go well. I'm going to "leave everything alone" for at least a day at let the router and satellite settle in. So far, my devices appear to be attached with strong signals. Crucially, the LG TV has picked up the 5GHz connection, not the 2.4 it so often seemed to prefer until I made changes.

 

Prior to the update, I re-enabled MU-MINO, set 2.4GHz channel to AUTO, and disabled 20/40 coexistence.

 

Interestingly ... I did a WiFi diagnostics test using the built-in tool on Mac Catalina, and it informed me the 5GHz channel I was using--44--was congested. It suggested using channel 161. But when I went into the Orbi setup, there are only 4-5 possible 5GHz channels listed (I always throught 5GHz used more like 20 channels?). I chose channel 48 for now--but if there's any way to access higher channels, please let me know.

 

For now, I'm going to do nothing more and see how this update works. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

 

 

Message 10 of 34
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Glad to hear FW upgrade went well.  The higher 5GHz channels are reserved for Orbi wireless backhaul.  Stick with the current settings for now and see how it goes in the next few days.

Message 11 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Ah, yes, of course. Forgot about the 5GHz channels for backhaul.

 

All makes sense now. Will see how it goes.

 

Thank you.

Message 12 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

UPDATE - Jan 10

 

Some progress ... but issues remain.

 

Since upgrading to firmware 2.5.1.8, I have let things "settle in" and now can report what's up.

 

At present, all devices are now connected at 5GHz--even the basement Roku that seemed in love with 2.4GHz. So that's a good thing. Also, I spent a full day working in my basement office (on my iMac) without a WiFi disconnect--and that's rare. Speeds are good in the basement, which is one floor below the Orbi sat and about 40 feet away.

 

Still ... getting disconnects using my Macbook Air in the bedroom, which is only 30 ft from the main Orbi and on the same floor. Speed can't match the basement IMac's signal, either (I get Xfinitiy's promised 200MB/S downstairs off the Orbi sat but only 70MB/S upstairs off the Orbi router--which is running in AP mode). And that signal continues to drop intermittently. Strange that the sat seems to be both more relialbe on connection AND delivers faster speeds and better range than the Orbi router itself.

 

Current config: 2.4GHz at 25%, channel AUTO, 20/40 coexist disabled. 5GHz at 100%, channel 48. Daisy chain and fast-roaming disabled. Beamforming, MU-MIMO enabled.

 

Again, all of this is incredibly frurstating, as my former Airport Extreme (running in my old apartment) could reach out at least 40 feet thru walls and was absolutely rock-solid for YEARS with zero tweaking on my part. Meantime, for the past three weeks I've been attending to and tweaking the Orbi network like it's the Space Shuttle about to launch. No way could anyone with zero computer knowledge get this system up and running well. I'm not even sure I'll be able to do it.

 

The "whole house" coverge claimed simply isn't there for me, and my house is only moderately sized (2400 sq ft or so) and mostly on one floor.

 

Pretty much out of ideas (other than buying a true mesh system) at this point ...

 

LD

 

 

 

Message 13 of 34
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Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Nice update!

 

The reason Satellite is more reliable is due to its stable 5GHz backhaul back to Orbi.  Given Macbook Air is 30ft away and connects to main Orbi, it could be suffering from weak 5GHz WiFi signals.  If you haven't already, try restoring 2.4GHz back to 100% and see if that helps.

Message 14 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

I tried upping 2.4GHz power, but even if I raise it to just 50%, immediately my LG TV latches on to the 2.4 signal and I get vastly reduced WiFi speed--which greatly affects Plex and Netflix viewing. Going back to 25% the LG grabs the sat's 5GHz signal again and all is well. I would kill 2.4GHz tranmission altogether if I could.

 

At this point, it looks like I'm going to have to put up with occasional WiFi drops in my bedroom in order to have the best-possible (but still not drop-free) connection to my basement iMac and family-room LG smart TV.

 

Overall, the Orbi system has been a disappointment. It's great WHEN it works, but the lack of a completely reliable connection and the not-up-to-the-hype range (particularly from the RBR base unit) ultimately means, when I can affford to do so, I'll be replacing it with a true mesh system. I'd even settle for slightly reduced WiFi speed (which was one of the reasons I opted for the Orbi) for a more reliable connection and less hassle with IT issues.

 

No "home" WiFi system should be this challenging to set up, so finicky about firmware, power settings, location of units, etc. Again, while it's hopelessly dated compared with today's high-speed systems, my old Airport Extreme was absolutely effortless to set up (plug it into the bridged modem/router, done!) and rock-solid day in and day out. I NEVER saw a spinning "loading" icon while watching Netflix. Never. With the Orbi ... It's already happened several times.

 

LD

Message 15 of 34
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

LG TV shouldn't have an issue with 2.4GHz, which supports link rate up to 400Mbps at 100% power.  With your current 200Mbps ISP speed, 2.4GHz should be sufficient unless it's heavily congested.  If 2.4GHz is really congested, get a 2nd Satellite for the MacBook Air location or enable separate 2.4GHz and 5GHz SSIDs.

Message 16 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Yes, LG TV can use 2.4GHz and should work that way at 100% power. In THEORY. In practice, the moment the LG acquires a 2.4GHz signal (always from the main RBR), connection drops and TV performance suffers considerably (i.e., Netflix autoplay previews that work perfectly on 5GHz now take forever to load or simply don't work at all). Plex performance (running off my basement iMac server) becomes so slow as to be unusable. The only solution for decent smart TV performance is lowering 2.4GHz to minimum power (25%) so TV always picks up the 5GHz signal off the RBS.

 

Also, I plan to upgrade the Xfiniity speed (I've sort of inherited the current 200MB/s plan) to at least 500MB/s. Will see how that affects things in general.

 

As for adding a second sat ... I'm not spending another dime on this Orbi system. As is, the two-unit AC3000 is advertised as "whole house WiFi" for a 5000 sq ft abode. My place is 2400 sq ft at most and the signal is subpar in all but a couple locations (I just had a dropout as I write this!). The other night my wife was in the den trying to watch Netflix on her iPad and the signal dropped so often (spinning buffer) she quit trying to watch her movie in frustration. And the den is barely 25-30 ft from the main RBR! This is pitiul. Does the "5000 sq ft" coverage only apply to houses made of balsa wood?

 

Today I got an email from Netgear asking me if my issues had been solved (I suppose they can't wait to apply the happy green arrow to this thread). Answer: NO. I have now spent well over a month of almost daily fiddling with the system, trying new router/sat locations, varying power and other settings, dealing with dropped WiFi and rebooting units, etc, etc., etc.

 

I bought the Orbi system simply to get great Wifi (per many glowing reviews) and, above all, rock-solid performance. Instead, I now have a part-time IT job and none of my WiFi needs met.

Message 17 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Possible the wifi adapters in your TVs could be the problem as well. Seen others with issues in these TVs. They seem to prefer 2.4Ghz rather then 5Ghz. Ensure the TVs FW is up to date as well. 

 

You might try another Orbi MESH system or ask about an RMA from NG. See if a different system exhibits the same problem or not. If it does, i would presume it maybe a TV issue rather then Orbi. 

Message 18 of 34
PaulInSF
Aspirant

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

I bought the second satellite figuring that would fix my drop-outs. Instead, it's gotten worse. Now I'm regretting not just going with the Xfinity mesh pods. We'll see if I can troubleshoot to make it work better, but I agree that in 2020, a consumer WIFI solution shouldn't be this hard or take this much vocabulary. 

Message 19 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

What Firmware is currently loaded? Ensure both RBR and RBS are using same version of FW. 


What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).


@PaulInSF wrote:

I bought the second satellite figuring that would fix my drop-outs. Instead, it's gotten worse. Now I'm regretting not just going with the Xfinity mesh pods. We'll see if I can troubleshoot to make it work better, but I agree that in 2020, a consumer WIFI solution shouldn't be this hard or take this much vocabulary. 


 

Message 20 of 34
LanceD
Guide

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

@PaulInSF  ...    I feel your pain. Sorry to hear that adding a second sat didn't help (and actually worsened) your setup, but I do appreciate your sharing that info as I was considering that route myself.

 

I haven't returned to this thread in some time as I've essentially accepted my setup as-is and, for the most part, it's now working pretty well.

 

Regarding the notes from @FURRYe38 ... I have tried EVERYTHING you mentioned at one time or another. I am currently runnning FW v2.5.1.8 on both the base station and the sat. I'm using the base in AP mode; it's attached to a Comcast Technicolor modem with service at 200/20 (I'm going to upgrade that to 1GB soon--and I'll likely dump the rental modem and buy one).

 

Sat is about 50 ft from the base. I get excellent signal/speed at 5GHz in my basement office (the sat sits almost directly above on the main floor), but my LG smartTV in the family room--about another 50 feet or so from the sat) usually locks onto 2.4GHz. I've tried various channels (Auto and manual settings) for both frequencies. Right now I'm on Auto 2.4 and 48 for 5.

 

For about three weeks I had almost zero wifi drops--then I stupidly moved the base unti about 8 inches to the left (to get it out of the sun coming thru a window), and suddenly I'd lose wifi 2-3 times a day. Needless to say, I moved it back. It seems to be better now, but seriously can't believe the system is THAT placement-sensitive.

 

I do have 5-6 other wifi neighbors who I scan for channel use and attempt to distance my setup from. Otherwise, right now I have beamforming on, fast roaming off (dropped all the time with that enabled), coexistence at 40MHz only, IPv6 on, no daisy chain obviously (just one sat), and not using the other features as the base is not in router mode.

 

All the other questions mentioned I believe I've answered elsewhere in this thread.

 

For now, I think I can live with what I've got--as long as the drops don't come back (or very rarely). I'm hoping upping my cable service speed will help, too.

 

LD

 

 

 

 

 

Message 21 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

@LanceD 

Possible your buiding materials and envrionment are playing a roll in this. If you moved it a short distance and it got worse then moved it back and got better, this would be some material and envronment causing some of this. What happens if you go in the other direction with the RBS. 

 

What the initial move away from the RBR or closer to the RBR when you noticed it got worse? 

Message 22 of 34
PaulInSF
Aspirant

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Hi,

I'm finally getting back to this. 

 

I have an xFi router from Comcast but it doesn't have a model number on it. Our house is 4200 square feet and I was told a router and 2 satellites would be good for this setup, though I'm regretting not just buying some xFi pods since @ $79 each, they were more cost-efficient.

 

I can't find the Orbi settings on the app so have not been able to troubleshoot other than moving one satellite about 15' closer.  I have just found the Orbi settings on the browser admin and will try some of these settings changes next.

 

We daisy chain an Apple Time Capsule off of the Orbi router and the odd thing is that the Orbi router often just stops completely, requiring a reboot. When it goes out, the daisy-chained Time Capsule goes out too. 

 

We do have 7-8 WIFI neighbors near us. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 23 of 34
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

If your modem has a router buit in, it may have wifi as well. This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop 

 

Please try one of the suggestions above with the Orbi RBR. 

 

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last update? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMw4ePACgc4
https://www.howtogeek.com/434350/how-to-factory-reset-a-router/


@PaulInSF wrote:

Hi,

I'm finally getting back to this. 

 

I have an xFi router from Comcast but it doesn't have a model number on it. Our house is 4200 square feet and I was told a router and 2 satellites would be good for this setup, though I'm regretting not just buying some xFi pods since @ $79 each, they were more cost-efficient.

 

I can't find the Orbi settings on the app so have not been able to troubleshoot other than moving one satellite about 15' closer.  I have just found the Orbi settings on the browser admin and will try some of these settings changes next.

 

We daisy chain an Apple Time Capsule off of the Orbi router and the odd thing is that the Orbi router often just stops completely, requiring a reboot. When it goes out, the daisy-chained Time Capsule goes out too. 

 

We do have 7-8 WIFI neighbors near us. 

 

Thanks!

 

 


 

Message 24 of 34
PaulInSF
Aspirant

Re: Orbi AC3000 system constantly dropping Wifi

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply. I've kept the xFi WIFI going since it's sometimes the only working WIFI in the house but will turn it off to test.

 

When you say do a reset on the router, do you mean the Orbi or the xFi?  If I reset, won't i have to reenter all these details again, or does Orbi store the Orbi ones in the cloud ?

 

Thanks!

Message 25 of 34
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