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Betreff: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

You need to have firmware version 2.1.x.x to use wired backhaul. NG lists 2.0.x.x as current as we all wait for an official release of firmware 2.2. You can manually upgrade to 2.1.2.18. Do the satellites first (on WIFI not wired) then the router. Reboot, use a paperclip in teh reset button for 10 seconds on teh router and satellites then configure the system with the satellites on WIFI. Once you have the satellites connected via WIFI, power them down, plug the router into the switch and move the satellites to the wired location and plug them in. They will connect via WIFI then see that there is a wired cnnection and switch to that in a couple of minutes.

As I said there is a 2.2 firmware to be released soon (we hope!)

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 26 of 72
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Aspirant

Betreff: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Thank you @bbunge 

What are the main problems with 2.1.2.18 that it got pulled back?

Message 27 of 72
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Betreff: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

The wiring in the pic is wrong. The switch should connected to the WAN port (yellow) on the router. As pictured, it’s wired to the lan port.
Message 28 of 72
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Luminary

Betreff: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm


@stevies3wrote:
The wiring in the pic is wrong. The switch should connected to the WAN port (yellow) on the router. As pictured, it’s wired to the lan port.

No, the WAN port of the router has to connect to the modem.

Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 29 of 72
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Betreff: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm


@stevies3wrote:
The wiring in the pic is wrong. The switch should connected to the WAN port (yellow) on the router. As pictured, it’s wired to the lan port.

Nope, the pic is right. Have done it with switch btwn router and satellite. Works!

Message 30 of 72
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Aspirant

Betreff: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

You are right, my error
Message 31 of 72
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Tutor

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Same problem here. I seriously hope netgear will address this and fast. I didn't expect to pay so much for something as buggy as this. A response from netgear would be appreciated as it seems this is a pretty widespread issue and not just an isolated case.

Model: RBK40| Orbi AC2200 WiFi System, RBS40| Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi (Add-on Satellite)
Message 32 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

What FW are you using? 

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem? Built in router here by chance? 

How are the Satelliltes connected to the router? Wireless or wired back haul? 

Any networks switches in the mix? If so, what is the Mfr and model# of these switche(s)?


@spodger wrote:

Same problem here. I seriously hope netgear will address this and fast. I didn't expect to pay so much for something as buggy as this. A response from netgear would be appreciated as it seems this is a pretty widespread issue and not just an isolated case.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 33 of 72
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Tutor

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Dunno what the manufacturer and model of the modem. ISP provided fibre modem connected directly to orbi 40 router yellow port. FW versions on all devices is V2.1.2.18. working perfectly on wireless backhaul but as soon as I attempt to cable satellites to router like this:

Orbi 1.png

...it kills the entire network. If I reboot in sequence: router, and once router is stable then restart satellite 1 and then restart satellite 2 it kind of works but several connection dropouts and an unhappy wife so I revert to wireless backhaul.

No other switches or anything added as yet

Message 34 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

OK, i believe wired back haul is broke on any version prior v2.1.3.x. There was a v2.1.3.6 available for the 40 series Orbi model however I see the link is no longer valid. I would phone contact NG support and ask for escalated support and see if they will give you v2.1.3.6 beta FW for use. 

 

If you do get this version of FW, update the satellites first, then the router. DO A FULL Factory reset on BOTH Router and satellites then up from scratch. Set up 1 satellite first via wireless. When thats added. Connect the ethernet cable from the router to the satellite. Give 5 minutes before checking access with a device thru the satellite. A BLUE LED should appear on the satellite after it's re-configured for wired back haul. IF this happens add the 2nd satellite in the same way. Wireless then wired. 

 

Please find the Mfr and model# of the ISP ONT/Modem information.

 


@spodger wrote:

Dunno what the manufacturer and model of the modem. ISP provided fibre modem connected directly to orbi 40 router yellow port. FW versions on all devices is V2.1.2.18. working perfectly on wireless backhaul but as soon as I attempt to cable satellites to router like this:

Orbi 1.png

...it kills the entire network. If I reboot in sequence: router, and once router is stable then restart satellite 1 and then restart satellite 2 it kind of works but several connection dropouts and an unhappy wife so I revert to wireless backhaul.

No other switches or anything added as yet


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 35 of 72
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Tutor

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Thanks for your help. I'll try to get my hands on some more recent firmware and give it a try with your instructions.

Message 36 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Let us know how it goes. I have wired backhaul working on my 40 series system with only 1 Satellite. Works good. 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 37 of 72
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

I just bought a RBK23 (RBR20, and 2x RBS20) and tried to get wired backhaul working on 2.1.4.10 (or something similar) with no luck. Each time I would run into broadcast storms. Can anyone definitively tell me if 2.2 solves the wired backhaul problems?
Message 38 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Any network switches in between the router and satellite(s)? If so, Mfr and model#? Managed or non-Managed?

How did you connect the satellites wired back haul?

Check LAN cabling, test with a good known working cable and 1 satellite at the back of the router.

 


@BDubUT wrote:
I just bought a RBK23 (RBR20, and 2x RBS20) and tried to get wired backhaul working on 2.1.4.10 (or something similar) with no luck. Each time I would run into broadcast storms. Can anyone definitively tell me if 2.2 solves the wired backhaul problems?



 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 39 of 72
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Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Yes, I have a D-Link DGS-1510-28X managed switch between my R7000 (wireless off, routing only) and the Orbi's. They were running in AP mode, using the LAN interface on the RBR20 (WAN interface does not work). Cabling is good as 2 out of 3 connections were already in use and third connection was tested before hand.

 

The overall issue is the wireless backhaul and wired backhaul come up at the same time, which causes a network loop. A non-managed switch should be responding the same way a managed switch would; A loop is a loop. The best way to fix the problem would be to have an option to disable wireless backhaul (and/or convert it to be used as a client front end). Any other solution seems to be an invitation to future problems down the road. 

 

I'm just curious if anything has changed in 2.2.

Message 40 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

The issue is your managed switch. One user said the he found that disabling IGMP protocols on his managed switch and said his wired back haul problems disappeared. There are known issues with managed switches and Orbi routers. I would take out the managed switch and test with a non managed switch. See what happens. Then try to find out of your managed switch has any IGMP procols that can be disabled.

 

I have two non managed switches in between my router and 1 satellite. No issues.


@BDubUT wrote:

Yes, I have a D-Link DGS-1510-28X managed switch between my R7000 (wireless off, routing only) and the Orbi's. They were running in AP mode, using the LAN interface on the RBR20 (WAN interface does not work). Cabling is good as 2 out of 3 connections were already in use and third connection was tested before hand.

 

The overall issue is the wireless backhaul and wired backhaul come up at the same time, which causes a network loop. A non-managed switch should be responding the same way a managed switch would; A loop is a loop. The best way to fix the problem would be to have an option to disable wireless backhaul (and/or convert it to be used as a client front end). Any other solution seems to be an invitation to future problems down the road. 

 

I'm just curious if anything has changed in 2.2.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 41 of 72
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Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

IGMP snooping is not enabled by default on my switch, so it was disabled at the time of my testing. Unless the Orbi's are using multicast to determine neighbors, I don't see how IGMP is relevant.

 

If the issue is my managed switch, can you point me to the documentation where it states a non-managed switch is required? Or that certain features/functions need to be disabled so wired backhaul will work?

 

I'm within my return window, so I'm merely trying to see if others had better success with 2.2 in this setup.

Message 42 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Been posts about using manages switches, you'll have to do searches. IGMP protocols, just not snooping seem to be a factor. Other users have said that once they removed the managed switch and put in a non managed switch, then there systems seem to work and or disabling ALL IGMP protocols on the mangaged switches. There maybe other factors as well when using managed switches.

 

I've brought this up to NG attention and have heard nothing back. So in short, only thinh I recommend for users with managed switches, try to disable the IGMP protocol features, ALL of them. Or use a non mangaged switch. Again, mine works fine with non managed switches.

 

Or return the system for something that does.

 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 43 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

New FW is available:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/td-p/1584969/jump-...

 

Might try it. It mentiones having some back haul fixes. 


@BDubUT wrote:

IGMP snooping is not enabled by default on my switch, so it was disabled at the time of my testing. Unless the Orbi's are using multicast to determine neighbors, I don't see how IGMP is relevant.

 

If the issue is my managed switch, can you point me to the documentation where it states a non-managed switch is required? Or that certain features/functions need to be disabled so wired backhaul will work?

 

I'm within my return window, so I'm merely trying to see if others had better success with 2.2 in this setup.


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 44 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

For reference:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/V2-1-3-4-Bridging/m-p/1572173#M31735

 and https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-MR-2-1-Update-3-23-18/m-p/1553421/highlight/true#M30664

and

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-MR-2-1-Update-3-23-18/m-p/1553407/highlight/true#M30662


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 45 of 72
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Thanks for posting those links. This one is the most helpful:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/V2-1-3-4-Bridging/m-p/1572173#M31735

 

As theorized, wireless and wired backhaul create a loop and flood the network with broadcast traffic. It's interesting that stp is disabled by default on the orbi router when this is the exact scenario where stp is needed. packetwerks is right when they say that this is something Netgear needs to fix. Any adjustments made on a switch (managed or not) are simply stop gaps. Hopefully the people who can fix it actually pay attention to the forums.

 

 

Message 46 of 72
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Guru

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Yes I've sent this in for review and tagged some mod's on this. 

 

Ya so for now, try the work around on your managed switch or put a non managed switch in place. Hopefully NG will figure this one out. Been a bug for a while now. 

 

@DarrenM

@BretD

@AmitR


@BDubUT wrote:

Thanks for posting those links. This one is the most helpful:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/V2-1-3-4-Bridging/m-p/1572173#M31735

 

As theorized, wireless and wired backhaul create a loop and flood the network with broadcast traffic. It's interesting that stp is disabled by default on the orbi router when this is the exact scenario where stp is needed. @packetwerks is right when they say that this is something Netgear needs to fix. Any adjustments made on a switch (managed or not) are simply stop gaps. Hopefully the people who can fix it actually pay attention to the forums.

 

 


 


My Setup (Cable 900Mbps/50Mbps)>CAX80>XR450 v2.3.2.106(Router Mode)>RBK853 v3.2.11.2(AP Mode)
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, RBK853, R7800, R7960P,
EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 47 of 72
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Aspirant

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

I can confirm the latest firmware, 2.1.4.16, enables spanning-tree (stp) on the Orbi router. This prevents loops, and therefore broadcast storms, from occuring. Wired backhaul is now stable for me, managed switch and all, even through multiple reboots.

 

Now if only Netgear could make it so the magenta LED doesn't glow in AP mode (since you're using the LAN port)...

 

Perhaps I'll keep my RBK23 afterall. Thanks FURRYe38.

Message 48 of 72
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Master

Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm


@BDubUT wrote:

 

Now if only Netgear could make it so the magenta LED doesn't glow in AP mode (since you're using the LAN port)...

 


I'm using the WAN port in AP mode and it works great and no magenta LED, but no wired backhaul here.  Why can't you use the WAN port?  Is it because of wired backhaul? Did you try the WAN port with the 2.1.4.16 firmware?

 

Message 49 of 72
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Re: Orbi Ethernet Backhaul causing broadcast storm

Everytime I've tried using the WAN port with wired backhaul, it hasn't worked; 2.1.4.16 included.

 

I opened a support case with Netgear and they seemed to indicate that it should and gave me instructions to factory reset and rebuild in AP mode, however that didn't prove successful.

 

Also, I spoke too soon on the ethernet backhaul. I should point out on caveat. My old Orbi system consists of an RBR50 and 2x RBW30's. My whole purpose in using wired backhaul and buying a RBK23 is that I recently finished terminating all my low voltage and wanted to make use of it. After finishing my testing, I moved my RBS20's to their final location, my RBW30's still plugged in. When one of the RBS20's came up, instead of connecting to the RBR50, it connected to a RBW30's. Since the satellites don't seem to run spanning-tree, it created a loop. I quickly realized what was happening and disconnected my RBW30's, which solved the problem.

 

I'm going to try disabling daisy-chaining, which should resolve this issue. If you're running wired backhaul, there shouldn't be a reason for it in the first place.

Message 50 of 72
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