Re: Orbi MR 2.1 Update 3/23/18

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

Please do a full factory reset on both units.

I would enable the following after the reset:

Allow 20/40 MHz coexistence

Disable SIP ALG

Power set to 100%

I would try enabled Beamforming only as well and test.

@Wizecwrote:
Items changed:

Disabled: allow 20/40 MHz coexistence
Enabled: Disable port scan and DoS protection
Disabled: Disable SIP ALG
Disabled: IPv6
Disabled: implicit beam forming, daisy chain, mu-MIMO, fast roaming
Lowered: 2.4Ghz power to 25%

Tried all 3 5Ghz channels. The potential for interference from neighbors is pretty low. We’re all on .3 acre lots in the suburbs. Whenever I check the connected devices page, I’m connected with a 5Ghz channel. I have not tried a factory reset yet. I work from home and haven’t had the time to set up the whole shebang from scratch.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

Glad it working well.

Enjoy.

@TrickyTwrote:
Just wanted to give an update here. I loaded this beta firmware up as soon as it came out on the 23rd.

Running RBR50 and two RBS50s.

Daisy-Chain Topology enabled
Implicit BEAMFORMING enabled
MU-MIMO enabled
Fast Roaming enabled.

We are now on day four and everything is working PERFECTLY! No issues at all, no drops, no nothing.

Just wanted to provide some positive news as probably more people that are having issues are commenting vs those with no issues.

nkd · ‎2018-03-27

@Wizecwrote:
Items changed:

Disabled: allow 20/40 MHz coexistence
Enabled: Disable port scan and DoS protection
Disabled: Disable SIP ALG
Disabled: IPv6
Disabled: implicit beam forming, daisy chain, mu-MIMO, fast roaming
Lowered: 2.4Ghz power to 25%

Tried all 3 5Ghz channels. The potential for interference from neighbors is pretty low. We’re all on .3 acre lots in the suburbs. Whenever I check the connected devices page, I’m connected with a 5Ghz channel. I have not tried a factory reset yet. I work from home and haven’t had the time to set up the whole shebang from scratch.

I don't have nearly as many tweaks. I did factory reset, and disabled all the fancy features like daisy chain, mu-mimo, fast roaming, beam forming. Other than daisy chain everything was already disabled so I just disabled daisy chain. However I don't need daisy chain thats the only reason I disabled it, if I had a really big property I would likely enable it.

May I ask why lower 2.4ghz power to 25%? I would probably leave that alone.

d

Wizec · ‎2018-03-27

I may try the factory reset this weekend.

I lower the power on the 2.4 GHz band because I don’t really want any host, besides my HP laser printer and my “Circle with Disney” to be on 2.4 GHz. My house is only 3,900 sq ft and all the other 19 devices I have are 5 GHz capable and connect with strong signals according to the hosts themselves and the Orbi app on the 5 GHz band. All the devices I want on 5 GHz are never more than about 35 feet from a WAP with at most one wall or the floor separating them, which has never caused an issue.

The only devices that experience disconnects frequently enough to be noticed are my wife’s iPhone 7 and my iPhone 7, and it’s just an irritation. I “guess 2 out of 21 ain’t bad”, but the question is why? These are the devices we use the most. I’ve tried all combinations of these tweaks on and off and every firmware over the last 9 months to no avail. Maybe a factory reset will improve things; I can only hope.

I forgot to add, I also disabled UPnP

nkd · ‎2018-03-27

I honestly haven't had any issues leaving 2.4ghz as it is. You migh be surprised how bad the 5ghz signal can deteriorate significantly. That is the advantage of having seamless connection and it will connect to the best connection. Think about it for a second, would it matter if you are on 2.4 or 5ghz as long as its working fine? I can never tell a difference but I am usually on 5ghz since my place is smaller. But 3900 squarefeet I can bet your 5ghz signal is falling off quiet fast. On top devices such as cell phones will have weaker radios and your 5ghz signal could even be worse than it would be with laptops or desktop wireless adapters.

Heck I had 300 dollar router with all kinds of antennas and I still had issues with 5ghz 25 feet away going through a few walls. This is the advantage of mesh system it will put on the strongest signal and one of the reasons I got it so I didn't have to swith back and forth different spots in my house. Honestly I can stream 1080p, 4k you name it, never can tell a difference.

and no need to disable upnp to be honest, its pretty safe to use.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

You can leave uPnP enabled. It's safe to use.

Wizec · ‎2018-03-27

UPnP is not very secure to begin with, and none of my applications rely on it. Best practice from a security perspective is to have it off:

https://blog.rapid7.com/2013/01/29/security-flaws-in-universal-plug-and-play-unplug-dont-play/

nkd · ‎2018-03-27

If you say so. No issues here with UPNP, if you are working with sensitive material and are paranoid about losing it. It may be the best choice for you but I feel most of the times we get hacked or lose info is due to user awareness rather than a deliberate attempt to hack your house.

Also you are playing with too many settings. I can bet if you enable 2.4ghz and leave it at its default value your iphone disconnection issue might disappear. I am pulling 100+ mbps on my iphone, it doesn't matter to me if I am on 2.4 or 5. it serves the purpose and keeps wife happy.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

Been using uPnP since it's first release. Have had ZERO issues with it. Only issues i've had are with gaming Mfrs not correctly supporting multiple same gaming devices all on same network using uPnP.

Beside, that article is 5 years old and way out of date.

There nothing bad about having uPnP enabled for those who wish to use it. Besides, if someone with bad intentions wants your data, they will find other means to aquire it if they really want it. Not alot of call for mom and pop data. They want the big collections of data which may have your data already, like from FB which is now under fire for selling users information. Isn't that nice. And uPnP wasn't even used for this.

@Wizecwrote:
UPnP is not very secure to begin with, and none of my applications rely on it. Best practice from a security perspective is to have it off:

https://blog.rapid7.com/2013/01/29/security-flaws-in-universal-plug-and-play-unplug-dont-play/

Wizec · ‎2018-03-27

I don’t “say so”, I linked a well researched article on the topic. Googling will show dozens of hits regarding UPnP’s security issues. I agree that direct attacks are not the most common. I’m a security software developer, so this is kind of my expertise 🙂

As I said before, I tried _all combinations_ of the tweaks I listed. I didn’t just try them all at once, so no, I’m not “playing with too many settings.” What I bulletted was just a list of the options I have tried over time after reading a post on the forum that it helped someone else, or after being advised by a moderator that I should try it.

Also, the 2.4Ghz band is wholly inadequate for us performance-wise. I have 3 Apple TV 4K boxes and when they are connected to the 5Ghz band, I can stream a Blu-ray MKV raw rip on all 3 of them at once from my Plex server (which is wired in on Gigabit to my Orbi satellite). If I connect them to 2.4Ghz, I can’t even stream 1.

I left 2.4Ghz power alone for months in the beginning when the disconnects were the worst across many devices so it’s no panacea. Firmware updates have improved things over time, such that I’m down to 2 devices experiencing multiple WiFi disconnects per day. I didn’t have this issue with the Netgear Nighthawk R6900 we had before.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

I would definatly do the factory update on the entire system and set up from scratch.

Seen other do this and get better results after the reset.

Sdiver2489 · ‎2018-03-27

My Rainmachine is starting to flake out again after resetting the connection on Sunday. Going to need to look into whats going on with that one device. It's a 2.4GHz only device...

nkd · ‎2018-03-27

I see. But no issues here. Left 2.4 as it is. Streaming 4K on multiple devices without an issue. I don’t even know which band it’s connecting to. It just works. Orbi assigns the best connection from what I read so I am unsure why you are halving so many issues. My only concern is your iPhone devices might be dropping off the 5ghz at times if connection is week. Have you tried disabling WiFi assist?

Csanderson0628 · ‎2018-03-27

My new one coming in today. I hope it better then the last one.

Wizec · ‎2018-03-27

We can agree that direct attacks are not the most common. However, the plural of anectdote (you’ve had ZERO issues with it) is not data

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/a-potent-botnet-is-exploiting-a-critical-rout...

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2921559/malware-vulnerabilities/malware-infected-home-routers-...

And on and on, google is your friend. Security is my area of expertise. I’ve said all I need to on UPnP. Think of this as a friendly PSA =D

Wizec · ‎2018-03-27

I haven’t tried that yet. That’s a good isolation troubleshooting step. I would like to know what iOS’s threshold is for engaging the WiFi assist so I could understand whether I’m running into that or not as well.

The experience we have is picking up our phone and opening Safari and immediately the WiFi icon disappears and we’re back on mobile data for about 15-20 seconds.

The other experience I have is that I get kicked off of Wi-Fi calls, which is a pain because I work from home and really appreciate Wi-Fi calling when it works, which again is most of the time. Still, when you come from 3 years of a rock-solid Netgear Nighthawk to random disconnects, patience dose wear a trifle thin. I also know this is a “first world problem”, I was a strawberry and turkey farmer as a kid before I got into IT administration and then software engineering, so am keeping things in perspective 😉

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

Yes, there will be many issues with routers, PCs and software. Endless cat and mouse game.

I don't see anything related to upnp on those two artcles though.

For anyone wanting to test there router out, try this to check for any upnp issues:

https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

Good Luck.

Wizec · ‎2018-03-27

The articles I linked last time were merely to illustrate that while direct attacks are not often targeted at the individual, router security is still an important element of security.

I can see how the way my answer was formatted might have been a bit confusing though.

Ironically, you linked to www.grc.com which I am very familiar with and almost linked myself before I thought I would just drop the topic. You might want to take notice of the following:

“The UPnP protocols were never designed to be exposed to the public Internet, and any Internet-facing equipment which does so should be considered defective, insecure, and unusable. Any such equipment should be disconnected immediately.”

Quoted from the UPnP Exposure Test page at:

https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?rh1dkyd2

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

Well maybe for some. However in most cases some users need the use of uPnP. For me I do espeically in gaming. Again, ZERO issues in using it over the years. All up to the users I guess.

Good Luck.

Sdiver2489 · ‎2018-03-27

Now that my Rainmachine is flaking out again my router log is filled with these messages again and again and again:

[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:07
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:04
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:01
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:58
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:55
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:52
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:49
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:46
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:43
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:40

steve8411 · ‎2018-03-27

Can you assign a static IP?

nkd · ‎2018-03-27

How many satellites do you have. That issue sounds just like WiFi assist is kicking in. My issue before this firmware was that my WiFi icon never disappeared it’s just would stop going to internet.

When WiFi icon disappears Iphone assumes you have a very weak WiFi signal and it needs to enable lte.

Sounds exactly like your WiFi assist is kicking in for sure.

Jeremyinsf · ‎2018-03-27

@Sdiver2489wrote:
Now that my Rainmachine is flaking out again my router log is filled with these messages again and again and again:

[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:07
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:04
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:01
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:58
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:55
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:52
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:49
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:46
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:43
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:40

This is exactly what happened to me. I didn't have this problem with previous versions. Once I did the upgrade, boom, this problem appears. The device does not support a static IP. It's 2.4Ghz only. I unplugged it for now, not a real solution, but now that it's unplugged I am not having my log filled. It looks like there is one or two other devices that once in a while request a a DHCP address within a minute of the previous lease, but it doesn't seem to be a constant problem with them.

FURRYe38 · ‎2018-03-27

Is this machine wired or wireless?

Yes try setting a static IP address ON the machine, outside of the routers IP address pool. OR try a set reserved IP address ON the router.

What wireless channels are you using? Try 1, 6 or 11.

What security modes are you using?

Disable Beamforming, MIMO, Daisy Chain and Fast Roaming to test.

Make sure 20/40Mhz co-existence is enabled.

Was a factory reset performed on both router and satellite(s) after upating FW then set up from scratch?

@Sdiver2489wrote:
Now that my Rainmachine is flaking out again my router log is filled with these messages again and again and again:

[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:07
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:04
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:25:01
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:58
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:55
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:52
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:49
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:46
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:43
[DHCP IP: 192.168.1.105] to MAC address 98:de:d0:12:26:00, Tuesday, March 27, 2018 14:24:40

Wizec · ‎2018-03-27

I have one satellite.

I just remembered that WiFi assist tracks how much data it uses. I just checked it and it’s at 216KB, which is probably a few iMessages here and there.

It’s definitely not WiFi assist, 216KB isn’t a drop in the types of web pages I load while the WiFi icon is off and I’m having the issue even once.