Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi with Wi-Fi 6 For The Gigabit Internet Home - #NETGEARCES2019

[Dustin_V]

Orbi Whole Home WiFi just got even faster! NETGEAR is continuing to lead the new era of Wi-Fi. To kick off CES 2019, we announced plans to pair award-winning Orbi Wi-Fi with the latest Wi-Fi standard, 802.11ax (Wi-Fi 6). This powerful combination will deliver gigabit internet via Wi-Fi across your home and support higher performance simultaneous Wi-Fi streams. Gigabit internet homes will be able to effortlessly support 4K video streaming, always-on smart home devices, ultra-high-speed bandwidth-hungry applications, and continue to support all legacy Wi-Fi devices.

Read our full Press Release:

https://netgear.com/about/press-releases/2019/NETGEAR-ANNOUNCES-ORBI-MESH-WI-FI-SYSTEM.aspx

Learn about AX WiFi (Wi-Fi 6)

https://www.netgear.com/landings/ax-wifi/

Are you excited about Wi-Fi 6 coming to Orbi? Let us know what you think!

[randomousity]

In theory, yes. But the firmware for the RBK50 doesn't even work properly, and hasn't been updated in months. ACLs don't work properly, the attached device list sometimes can't tell how a device is connected, satellites sometimes lose sync, satellites fail to sync with wired devices connected, DHCP doesn't properly handle subnets larger than 254 devices, etc. The v2.2.1.210 firmware actively made several features worse, and there's really no word on whether or when the issues will be addressed.

So yes, in theory, the new product sounds great, but not if Netgear can't reliably push out updates that don't break features, or at least quickly put out subsequent updates to fix what the prior one broke. And putting out new products probably means having fewer developers working on updates for existing products, so we'll probably have to expect even more delays.

[Joechang]

correct, firmware developed based on terrible old Openwrt and off shore R&D team, not only lack of.feature but even stability is far behind

[thombe]

Will there be a part exchange option / upgrade path for those with the seemingly imperfectt, and clearly now soon to be redundant series 1 model.  For the ones that jumped in and inadvertently helped develop this new product, by beta testing for netgear? I think thats the least that could be offered.

[Gcw1]

I bought my Orbi over a year ago, I can't believe that Netgear are planning to update there Orbi range later this year, with new technologies.

I hope Netgear will refund all 1st generation orbi owners, as we all thought technology would standstill!

Actually, I am one of the silent majority, who really quite likes there Orbi. After years of messing about with geeky top of the range Asus routers (excellent products). I have a boring Orbi system that covers my whole house 2.4 and 5ghz. Providing 20 plus devices with more bandwidth than I need, even for 4k and gaming.

In the 70s, I used to have a casio digital watch, where you had to push a button to see the time displayed in red for a few seconds, today I wear a Samsung Galaxy Watch!

Time and Technology waits for no man, bring on the future. 

[mranjan78]

Is it possible to upgrade the existing orbi RBK50 wifi systems which I already have? OR I just have throw away the existing systems and buy the new model with wifi 6 standard?

[tagteam]

The hardware is different so you will have to buy the new model if you want Wi-Fi 6.

[Ragar99]

Jeeze, we will probably never see another firmware update for the current Orbi once this comes out.

On the bright side, it will be another forum the Furry and EK bots can post to!

[FURRYe38]

Of course. I am to please. 

Enjoy. 

[kadmus11]

I like the idea, but I've been burned with issues with the RBK50 that have never been resolved. It's a shame because I've had to switch to google wifi which is more stable but has less speed.

[FURRYe38]

Maybe next time make a post with details of the problems you are having with the Orbi and maybe we can help you out. Others are having good experiences with there systems. 

Good Luck. 

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@kadmus11 wrote:

I like the idea, but I've been burned with issues with the RBK50 that have never been resolved. It's a shame because I've had to switch to google wifi which is more stable but has less speed.

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[kadmus11]

Where do I start? The constant problem through all the firmware updates, settings changes, and even a hardware replacement are the constant drop outs and speed slow downs on ios devices. 

Though my windows PC and other IOT devices certainly aren't immune. I only live in a small one bed place so I don't use a satellite. The speed on Orbi, when it works, is great but the connection is far too inconsistent. 

I have the single Google wifi in exactly the same place in my flat, again with no satellite, and the connection is solid if slower than Orbi. 

[FURRYe38]

Thats one area that seems to cause problems for most users, this auto update. I really don't care for it and rather manually load FW my self and setup. It does seem to work for some. Like my friends I set up last summer. I just went over and checked his system, auto updated and no complaints with this system. 

When you feel like it again, download ALL FW Files for your model Orbi and it's satellites. 

I would start by loading the satellites first, then the router last. Use IE11 or FF or Opera browsers.

After FW is loaded. do a complete ERASE or Factory reset ON the satellites then Router. Hold the back reset button in until the top led turns on AMBER then let go. Wait for the WHITE led to slowly pulsate, then log in to orbilogin.com using a web browser and walk thru the setup wizard. This time write down all important information for safe keeping later on.
Setup from scratch and try some of the suggestions here:

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials. Placemennt is key for Orbi. 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? This can be a cause of problems as well.
What WPA security modes are you using? Try WPA2 and AES only.

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s). If you updated to recent FW v.210, try enabling Daisy Chain. Some have mentioned that this seems to be working in reverse order, enabling means disabled actually. Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings.

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@kadmus11 wrote:

Where do I start? The constant problem through all the firmware updates, settings changes, and even a hardware replacement are the constant drop outs and speed slow downs on ios devices. 

Though my windows PC and other IOT devices certainly aren't immune. I only live in a small one bed place so I don't use a satellite. The speed on Orbi, when it works, is great but the connection is far too inconsistent. 

I have the single Google wifi in exactly the same place in my flat, again with no satellite, and the connection is solid if slower than Orbi. 

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[randomousity]

Wifi 6 will have different radio hardware, so there won't be any way to upgrade existing devices to Wifi 6 unless you can swap out components, like on a desktop, or a USB dongle for a laptop. But anything with an integrated radio (laptops, phones, tablets, probably nearly all "smart" devices) will just be capped at whatever level it left the factory with. A Wifi 4 device can only work at Wifi 4 levels, even on a Wifi 5 router. You can still use it with a Wifi 5 or Wifi 6 router, but you won't get all the benefits of Wifi 6 unless both the router and the device are Wifi 6.

(Assuming Netgear gets the firmware fixed on the current models) just keep using them until they fail or are insufficient to meet your needs. Factory reset it and sell it used if you really feel the need to upgrade before hardware failure or end of support from Netgear. There aren't even any consumer devices with Wifi 6 hardware yet, so even if you upgraded to the latest and greatet Orbi, you won't have any devices able to take full advantage of it. Even once they hit the market, it'll depend where you are in your upgrade cycle for phones, laptops, consoles, etc., anyway. If all your devices are Wifi 5 (or lower), there's simply no need to get a Wifi 6 router unless you already need a new router anyway. IMO, the bare minimum requirement to elect to upgrade your router to Wifi 6 (as opposed to a mandatory replacement due to failure) is that you have at least one device with Wifi 6, you are maxing out the Wifi 5 with that device, and you would actually benefit from upgrading the router to Wifi 6. Anything less than meeting all three of those conditions is just throwing money away to have the latest and greatest for the sake of having it now. You'd be better off deferring the purchase for six or twelve months and getting the same Wifi 6 router for less when the price comes down. Or even a better one for the same price. Either way, a better value.

I used my old cable modem for over a decade, and only upgraded it when I got bumped up to a plan that was faster than my old modem could handle. I've only replaced routers when the old one either failed or didn't cover as large an area as I needed.

[raven_au]

Clearly the new wireless will be different.

But the AX chipset should be able to provide AC support as well.

So the question becomes can AC based Oribi devices be used with the new AX based Orbi devices.

For example, if one gets a Router plus Satelite AX based pack can AC based satelites that customers already have be used with the new AX based Orbi router?

[randomousity]

I assume they'll make the new Orbis backwards-compatible, so that a new Wifi 6 router will work with an old Wifi 5 satellite, or a new Wifi 6 satellite will work with an old Wifi 5 router.

[Chuck_M]

That's a big stretch of an assumption.

[FURRYe38]

I presume AX systems would be backwards compatible for devices that are connected to this new system. I presume just like when AC arrived years ago, ABGN modes were supported. It's possible that the MESH system maybe only AX supporting between the base and satellite(s). Time will tell when these arrive to market. 

[randomousity]

How so? Obviously, if both the router and satellite aren't Wifi 6, you won't get full Wifi 6 benefits, but that doesn't mean it can't be backwards-compatible and function as a hybrid set to some degree. I have some Wifi 4 devices that work fine on my Wifi 5 system. Netgear would obviously prefer for everyone, whether or not they currently have Orbi systems, to just buy the new Orbi when it comes out. But that's not realistic. Netgear needs to not only attract new customers, but also retain the ones it already has. If Netgear were operating in a vacuum, sure. Maybe they make it backwards compatible, maybe not. But it's not in a vacuum. It's competing against Google, Linksys, AmpliFi, TP-Link, Belkin, etc, for market share. They want to attract new customers, but also retain the ones they already have. The easiest way to do that is to give existing Orbi customers some value for their existing setups, so that switching to a competitor is relatively more expensive than remaining with Netgear's Orbi. If a Wifi 6 Orbi set (assume one router and two satellites) is, say, $400, and a Wifi 6 Velop set (also one router and two satellites) is also $400, maybe I'm indifferent if the features are comparable. But, if I can use my existing Wifi 5 satellites with the new Orbi, and not with the Velop, it's still $400 either way, but I get more value by staying with the Orbi, since I'll have two new Wifi 6 satetllites, but also one or two old Wifi satellites, for the same $400. Unless the new Velop set with only two satellites is so much better than the new Orbi even with two new and two old satellites, most people will stick with Orbi if they already have it. If the new Velop is so much better that it more than makes up for not being compatible with my old Orbi satellites, I'm switching, and Netgear has bigger problems than a lack of backwards compatibility anyway.

I think there's a strong business case for Netgear to make the next-gen Orbis backwards compatible, and it takes a much bigger leap to assume they won't be backwards compatible. And yeah, I could sell my existing Wifi 5 Orbi set to offset the cost of upgrading to an incompatible Wifi 6 Orbi, but I could also sell my existing Orbi to offset the cost of switching to Linksys, Google, etc., so that's really not an argument in favor of Netgear abandoning its existing customer base. If Netgear makes consumers start over to get next-gen tech, there's no guarantee they start over with Netgear and not a competitor.

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[FURRYe38]

Anything is possible. Just prior experiences, when new tech comes out, Mfr move forward with little regard to what was already been. I was an early adapter for AC when D-Link came out with it on there router. It worked and was backwards compatible. 

We still see backwards compatibility with Mfrs and new stuff. I would hope that going forward that mfr will keep backwards compability in the mix. I presume they will. However only time will tell. Will be interesting to see when wireless B mode gets dropped along with WEP and WPA1. Theres some backwards compability for ya still. 

We also get to look foward to WPA3 as well, however no client side support as of yet. Heard rumours about Samsung this year...

When does mfr start implementing USB3.1 gen2? 

Not sure what Mfrs will do for current customers with current HW. Getting new Tech usally means buying it if you want it. It would be up to Mfr to give any specials to current customers which I've never seen done. Who knows though. Will be very interesting to see how WiFi 6 comes to market and how it's all received by the consumer. 

[NickC4555]

I realise your post was meant to be helpful, but the Orbi is supposed to be a consumer product, not one that requires in depth knowldege of networking terminologies and how to analyse your network. If you can't take it out of the box and plug it in, then either it isn't fit for purpose or it is being sold to the wrong type of customer. Either way, Netgear is culpable, and it is regrettable that some customers are defending them and their shoddy products. I agree with other posters that it is outrageous for them to be launching a new product having let down their exisiting customers so badly with the current one.

I now have a stable 2 satellite Orbi system, but it's running old firmware and it took me several months of effort, a few different versions (including betas), many combinations of settings and satellite placements to get to where I am.

The main problem with Orbi firmware releases is a clear lack of a formal test methodology, particularly regression testing. New features and bugs are fixed in isolation, but then other things break and older bugs return. I would bet my pension that the developers are signing off on their own work packages and that nobody is doing rigourous end to end testing of the entire system against a formal plan. Nobody apart from Netgear's customers, that is, and I didn't sign up for that.

[FURRYe38]

You should make a new post to post your experineces. This thread was about the new Orbi MESH system and WiFi 6 protcols that it supports. Nothing to do with current products. 

Make a new post and post your experiences there please. 

Thank you. 

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@NickC4555 wrote:

I realise your post was meant to be helpful, but the Orbi is supposed to be a consumer product, not one that requires in depth knowldege of networking terminologies and how to analyse your network. If you can't take it out of the box and plug it in, then either it isn't fit for purpose or it is being sold to the wrong type of customer. Either way, Netgear is culpable, and it is regrettable that some customers are defending them and their shoddy products. I agree with other posters that it is outrageous for them to be launching a new product having let down their exisiting customers so badly with the current one.

I now have a stable 2 satellite Orbi system, but it's running old firmware and it took me several months of effort, a few different versions (including betas), many combinations of settings and satellite placements to get to where I am.

The main problem with Orbi firmware releases is a clear lack of a formal test methodology, particularly regression testing. New features and bugs are fixed in isolation, but then other things break and older bugs return. I would bet my pension that the developers are signing off on their own work packages and that nobody is doing rigourous end to end testing of the entire system against a formal plan. Nobody apart from Netgear's customers, that is, and I didn't sign up for that.

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[NickC4555]

Of course, we wouldn't want to put people off buying the new products by letting them know how bad the current ones are, would we?

[Chuck_M]

That might be a harsh overcharacterization of Netgear quality and products -- I respectfully disagree with you and offer my experience so far:

My personal experience is that the Orbi RBR50 is a very good product -- I have An RBR50 and two RBS50s in a very large home with up to ~130 devices at any time including a large Sonos constellation, security cameras, DVR/NVR, Nest doorbells, garage doors, smoke detectors, thermostats, Pentair swimming pool controllers, bluerays, hue lights, alarms, smart televisions (at least 7), home theater amp, laptops, gaming desktops, Ipads, androids, iphones etc.  Everything works great -- even under such heavy demands.  As an early adopter of technology, I obviously like adding more and more.

I use both dynamic and static IP addresses in my architecture as well as  port forwarding and IP reservations. 

The entire system runs smooth as silk and delivers massive bandwidth to all corners of the property, both inside and out. 

Granted, there are additional firmware & software capabilities I would like to see, but overall I am highly satisfied and a proud owner.

Remote management works well.  I dont use Circle!

Once set up properly, the Orbi system is the fastest and best routing and wireless solution I have used...  And I have tried a lot including Linksys, Cisco, Luma (ugh!), and others.

In my view, the biggest issue with these systems users experience is setting up improper interfaces with other routers, switches, modems and not understanding proper routing & architecture principles.  Networking can be complicated and some legacy devices can be problematic -- but I dont see that as a failure of Netgear... it is the nature of evolving technology.

When the new Orbi is released it will have issues like every other high-tech product.  I will still probably get it!

[Ragar99]

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@Chuck_M wrote:

Once set up properly

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What does that mean?  I am assuming you mean much more than installing per the documentation and default settings that ship with the device.  Perhaps you mean after spending time in these forums to learn things like enabling daisy chain is really disabling and vice versa?

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@Chuck_M wrote:

When the new Orbi is released it will have issues like every other high-tech product. 

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Boy I don't know what you are buying, but this product is amongst the worst I have ever purchased in terms of rapid fire firmware fixes that broke more things.  Most high tech products I buy work great.  I used Asus routers for years and never looked at one of their forums or called their support for a problem.

I would be willing to bet that the Wi-Fi 6 is much smoother, the Netgear engineering team undoubtedly made a terrible design decision that was not easily fixed with the current product, one that they will rectify with the Wi-Fi 6.