Orbi RBK22 - Verizon Fios Gigabit - NordVPN Issue

[Bill_Pgh]

I need some help with a situation I've recently experienced. Sorry in advance for the long post.  First some backstory.

I recently upgraded to Verizon Fios Gigabit service. This required that I get a new Verizon Quantum router. Due to the cabling in my home, I also had to get a Verizon Wi-Fi Extender (connected to the Quantum router via coax). After the upgrade I kept having Wi-Fi issues which Verizon tech support was unable to fully correct. Therefore, I purchased the Orbi RBK22 Mini System at Costco (consists of 1 RBR20 router and 1 RBS20 satellite).

I connected the Orbi router to the Fios Wi-Fi Extender via ethernet and set up the Orbi in AP mode (as per instructions for getting Orbi to work with Fios gigbit found online). I turned off both the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz wireless antennas on both the Fios Quantum router and the Fios Wi-Fi Extender. Everything was working fine for over two months.

In my home, I have a mix of Wi-Fi devices (connected to the Orbi) and hard-wired devices (Desktop Mac, printers, etc) connected to the Fios Wi-Fi Extender and a switch.

That's my setup.  Hopefully all this info is helpful. Now for the issue I ran into...

I run NordVPN software on most of my machines. This has worked fine for over two months with the above setup. Suddenly, last weekend, my NordVPN was unable to connect to any of their servers. When I logged out and tried to sign back in, I received a "service unreachable" error. This happened on all devices connected to Wi-Fi (Mac/Chromebook/iOS). I verified with NordVPN that the issue was not on their end. In troubleshooting the issue, I discovered that if I disconnected from the Orbi Wi-Fi network and connected to my iPhone hotspot, NordVPN worked fine.

I called Netgear Orbi support and the nice lady who assisted me said the issue was that my Orbi router was in AP mode and needed to be in "Router" mode. She said that the Orbi was getting the same IP as the Verizon Extender and was creating the issue. (I'm not sure why this worked for the two months it did.)  She had me change the settings to put the Orbi in Router mode. This solved my NordVPN issue immediately.  I thought all was fine. Yesterday however, I discovered that a NAS (hardwired to the Fios Extender) I have was unreachable as were all of my hardwired printers. After thinking about this for a minute, it made sense. The Fios hardwired devices and the Orbi Wi-Fi are actually on two separate networks since the Orbi is acting as router. This is a problem as I need access to my NAS and printers.

I decided to put the Orbi back into AP mode (back to where I started). This solved the latest issues. Printers, NAS, etc., now appear and work fine. Also, at this time the NordVPN is working fine on all devices. I can connect and disconnect without issue. I have not tried logging off the app and trying to sign back in (which gave me the "service unreachable" error).

I'm concerned that this Nord issue will appear again. Is there something I can do in the Orbi settings to prevent this (while keeping my entire household on the same network)? Would setting a static IP on the Orbi (instead of allowing it to get the IP from the Fios Extender) be helpful? Are there any settings that could to be changed in the Verizon router/extender to help?

Sorry for the long-winded question. I thought too much info rather than not enough would be helpful.

Thanks in advance for any help someone can give.

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

I would connect up all your devices to the Orbi system and not connect them to the FIOS system and see how it goes in AP mode. 

Modem Combo Units:
This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

I would connect up all your devices to the Orbi system and not connect them to the FIOS system and see how it goes in AP mode. 

Modem Combo Units:
This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

[Bill_Pgh]

Thanks for the quick reply.  Your suggestion makes sense.  I will try this when I get home later today.

To make sure I am completely understanding, the Verizon Wi-Fi extender has 2 LAN ports.  One is currently going to the Orbi, and the other to my switch which distributes to the wired devices.   The Orbi also has 2 LAN ports.  The yellow one is occupied by the incoming cable from the Fios Extender.

I am going to unplug the ethernet (going to the switch) from the Fios Wi-Fi extender and plug it into the available Ethernet LAN port on the Orbi.  Correct?

Should I power down everything before moving the cable or does that not matter?

I leave the Orbi in AP mode as it currently is.  Are there any settings changes I need to make?  Would I need to reboot any/all of the wired devices or should they dynamically update?

Thanks very much for your expertise and willingness to help!

[FURRYe38]

Yes. Remove the Extender from the configuration and connect all devies to the Orbi system. 

FIOS Router>Orbi AP mode<LAN Devices connected to back of Orbi router or back of Satellite LAN ports. 

Is there a LAN switch being used? What is the Mfr and model# of the ethernet switch if one is in the configuration.

[Bill_Pgh]

I can't remove the Extender as it's how I get my internet into the house.  The Wi-Fi Extender and Orbi Router are in my basement.  That's where Verizon placed my original router when the house was built.  Prior to upgrading to Gigabit, the original basement router was connected to Verizon via coax.  So there is only coax running to the basement.  When I upgraded to gigabit, I needed to get their "Quantum" router which unfortunately only accepts Ethernet as it's connection to Verizon.  They could not run Ethernet to my basement, so they connected the new Quantum router to Ethernet in my garage.  The Quantum router has a Coax-out on the back of it.  They connected one end of the Coax to the new router in my garage.  The Wi-Fi extender I had to purchase accepts the coax, which is why I needed it for the basement.

So I have Verizon service to Quantum Router in the garage via Ethernet.  Coax-out on the Quantum Router to Coax-in on the Wi-Fi Extender in the basement.  Ethernet out of Wi-Fi Extender to the Orbi Router and to an 8 Port gigabit switch.  The switch is a simple T-Link. 

So I think what I said in the last post should be all I need to do.  The Wi-Fi Extender mirrors the settings of the Quantum Router, so it is essentially the same thing I believe.

[FURRYe38]

what is the distance from the garage to the basement? As the crow flys? 

Does the router in the garage have a LAN out by chance? If so, I would run CAT 6 or CAT6A from the garage to the basement and this would bypass the need of the wifi exender in the basement. 

There a model# of this T-Link switch? 

Seems like the ISP could have set this up better. The main model or ONTs should be with in the main house building, not in the garage. 

[Bill_Pgh]

Distance is perhaps 100 feet but numerous walls.  The Verizon tech who installed the Quantum router said there was no way to get to the basement with Ethernet as the original wiring was done before the walls were in place. No gaps in the walls due to foam insulation after the walls went up.  The Verizon tech stated that the Wi-Fi Extender simply imports all of the Garage Quantum router's settings, so in effect, connecting to the Extender is the same as connecting directly to the router.   If true, I assume connecting the Orbi to the LAN port on the Extender should work just fine.  I will try it when I get home.

Here's the extender in case you are interested:  https://www.verizon.com/home/accessories/fios-network-extender/

All of the ONTs in my plan are in the garage...

Not 100% sure on the exact model of the T-Link switch.  I believe it's an inexpensive TL-SG1008D. 

Really appreciate your help.  Thanks.

[FURRYe38]

Let us know how it goes. 

[Bill_Pgh]

Definitely will.  So just switching the Ethernet from the Fios to the Orbi should be all that's necessary?  No setting changes required on the Orbi?  I'm assuming not, but wanted to make sure.

I'll post later with my findings after making the change.

Thanks again!

[FURRYe38]

Yes. If you've already set up the Orbi for Ap mode, then connect the LAN cable to the WAN port of the Orib base. 

[Bill_Pgh]

Will do.  Thanks.  Will report back with the findings.

[FURRYe38]

[Bill_Pgh]

Home now and plugged switched the ethernet from the Fios Extender to the Orbi.  All seems to be working fine.  I still have a question.

If, prior to switching the cable, the Orbi is in AP mode and provding the Wi-Fi, and the Fios router is providing the ethernet connections, what exactly have I accomplished by plugging the ethernet into the Orbi?

It would make sense to do this if was putting the Orbi in "Router" mode because then the wired and wireless would be on the same network.  But in AP mode, it's all the same network anyway, so I don't understand what doing what I just did accomplished.  It hasn't hurt anything, but what's the benefit?

Thanks.

[FURRYe38]

Since your FIOS already had a router, using the Orbi in Router mode would cause problems. This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. 

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/nat.htm
http://www.practicallynetworked.com/networking/fixing_double_nat.htm

[Bill_Pgh]

Got it.  Thanks.  Not sure that answers my last question, but that's ok.  All is working fine now.

You helped a great deal!  Much appreciated.   Thanks so much for the help!

[FURRYe38]

No benefit in double nat. Single NAT condition is best and preferred. Less hassle and troubleshooting is the benefit here. 

Enjoy. 

[Bill_Pgh]

Working great!  Thanks!

[FURRYe38]