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Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Hmm. That is "interesting".  Because DHCP is based on "broadcast" technology, the most common DHCP implementations have a DHCP server in the IP subnet.  (Orbi, for example.)  The device sends a broadcast, "Can I have an IP address?" and one (or more) DHCP servers respond.  I honestly do not remember how my organization set this up when we implemented DHCP for 3,000-odd devices. I believe the switches forwarded the DHCP broadcasts somehow to a set of master DHCP servers.  (It has been years.)

Message 26 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Thanks again. I have followed up again with the ISP, without about as much luck.

 

Understand if the DHCP lease renewal is causing the issue, it is likely symptomatic rather than causal.

 

Figure I have two options remaining:

  1. Setup the Optus Sagecomm in faux bridge mode & connect the Orbi to that & hope that somehow insulates the Orbi
  2. Revert the firmware to a previous version and hope that helps

I don't have great confidence in either approach, but am running out of troubleshooting ideas.

Message 27 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Hi,

 

Anyone have any suggestions of best approach here, or alternatives?

 

Cheers, Joel

Message 28 of 45
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

I would manually load firmware 2.5.2.4

The other suggestion is to see if you can capture the DHCP lease renewal packets.

The first IP lease offered was for 300 seconds (5 minutes).  So, at about 150 seconds, the Orbi should have begun asking to renew the lease. Do you see those packets? (and the response packets from the ISP?)

Message 29 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Thanks, I'll run some more tests now.

Message 30 of 45
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

I have mixed feelings about this situation.

  • On the one hand, it should not matter how long a DHCP lease is. (300 seconds, 86,400 seconds (one day), or even a full week).
    The device and the DHCP server should follow the protocol described in:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Host_Configuration_Protocol 
  • On the other hand, I have real suspicions about how ISP's and Orbi handle DHCP.
    I have documented that my Windows 10 PC does not use DHCP correctly when it wakes from 'sleep', but does when restarted.
    Heaven knows what is going on between the ISP and Orbi.
Message 31 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Had some issues getting the log capture. Once I had captured a long enough period I can see the renewal packets.

 

Wireshark wan.pcap DHCP renewal.png

Message 32 of 45
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

These are almost exactly 2:30 apart, which is what I would expect from a DHCP lease of 5:00.

If you use Wireshark to examine the DHCP packets, it will probably spell that out (in seconds).

 

Although what I consider "definitely absurd", I believe this is legitimate and may even be the default value.  (Maybe these folks, "don't have a clue" and never changed the DHCP default?)

 

Alas, this does not explain internet service being interrupted.  (Have I taken us off on a tangent?)

 

With logging working now, can you record traffic until there is an interruption and then dump the log when it resumes? (maybe while that ping trace is running?)

Message 33 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

I captured the following drops ~10:22:18-10:22:24am.

 

Pingplotter - 0705 outage - 5m.png

 

I can see the DHCP Renewal Request & ACK slightly before the dropped connection at 10:21:59

 

Wireshark wan.pcap DHCP renewal 102959 .png

 

I have captured the log files from the DHCP request through to the end of the dropped connection. I'm not really sure what to look for in these logs? And Netgear Community won't let me upload the file. As an alternative I have uploaded the log capture.

Message 34 of 45
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

What a bizzare situation. Can you do two things:

  1. Try to ping dnsany02.optusnet.com.au
  2. Change the Orbi DNS entry on the Internet page from "Get automatically from ISP" to Use these DNS servers, and put in
    1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8
Message 35 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly


  1. Try to ping dnsany02.optusnet.com.au
    Response received
    Screen Shot 2021-05-07 at 10.00.35 pm.png
  2. Change the Orbi DNS entry on the Internet page from "Get automatically from ISP" to Use these DNS servers, and put in 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8
    I can't select the "Use these DNS Servers" radio button unless I select the "Use Static IP Address" radio button above & I don't have a static IP address.

It is getting weirder.


 

Message 36 of 45
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Is Parental Controls enabled?  I believe that interfers with the ability to set DNS servers.  I seem to remember a post where someone said he turned off Parental Controls, was then able to set DNS servers, and turned Parental Controls back on again.

Message 37 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Ah yes, Parental Controls are turned on. I turned off Parental Controls and was able to set the DNS servers. However, I couldn't turn Parental Controls back on without reverting to Get Automatically from ISP. Note, I am using Circle.

 

When the DNS servers were manually defined there were no issues with dropped connections, as soon as I reverted the frequent dropped connections returned. Oddly the Lease Renweal times were unchanged ie. 5 minutes.

 

Screen Shot 2021-05-10 at 10.33.22 am.png

Message 38 of 45
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

I have no understanding of Parental Controls.... and no idea who could explain how enabling Parental Controls would create this situation.

It is understandable why people want Parental Controls on the network.  This seems like a ("hobson's choice"?)

Message 39 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Yes, Parental Controls was defnitely a factor in our purchase decision, more for device control rather than site blocking in our case.

 

Does anyone from Netgear monitor these forums? Seems there is a legitimate issue here & one I am loathe to pay support just to report.

 

In happier news, these frustrations have prompted me to finally get my ethernet backhaul working.

 

Thanks for all your help. I assume I have now hit a dead end.

Message 40 of 45
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly


@joel_smith wrote:

Yes, Parental Controls was defnitely a factor in our purchase decision, more for device control rather than site blocking in our case.

Does anyone from Netgear monitor these forums? Seems there is a legitimate issue here & one I am loathe to pay support just to report.

In happier news, these frustrations have prompted me to finally get my ethernet backhaul working.

Thanks for all your help. I assume I have now hit a dead end.


In the four years I have been following this forum, I cannot recall a single instance of anyone presenting themselves as a Netgear employee. The closest I can recall is when we had the "Traffic Meter Fiasco" in March when one of the forum moderators commented that "Netgear engineers have identified the problem...."  So, no.  I think the community forum is exactly that.  For the community.

 

I have been tempted to pay for a Gearhead subscription, but have never felt confident that (a) whoever works at Gearhead would know much, or (b) have a way to contact someone in Netgear engineering who does. 

 

I have this strong memory of someone commenting that they disabled Circle, changed to user defined DNS servers, and then enabled Circle again and their choices were not erased.  (My memory is not always correct.)  There is no reason for Circle to care which DNS servers are being used.  If the ISP DNS servers are OK, then certainly OpenDNS or Cloudflare would be fine as well.

 

Netgear has a "new & improved" Parental Controls which is taking the place of Disney Circle.  They offer a free trial.  Maybe that product will do what you want and not interfere with DNS?

 

 

Message 41 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Wowsers! I'm not sure what has happened, but while investigating OpenDNS, CloudFlare offerings, I thought I'd try re-enabling Parental Controls again, and.... it worked this time.

 

Maybe it was the reboots disabling Daisy Chain while configuring ethernet backhaul.

 

I am still seeing regular packet loss ~2.30 but only for one second as opposed to 5-7, this is tolerable if not ideal.

 

@CrimpOn thanks again.

Message 42 of 45
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Netgear has set up a community forum specifically for the Circle product. Most of the people who watch that forum are more likely to have experience with Circle and know how to work it better than those of us who follow this "general Orbi" forum. Might be more likely to find someone who has a solution if the question is posted there:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Circle-Smart-Parental-Controls/bd-p/en-home-circle

https://www.netgear.com/home/services/smart-parental-controls/
https://community.netgear.com/t5/NETGEAR-Smart-Home-Parental/bd-p/en-home-smart-parental-controls

Good Luck

Message 43 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Thanks @FURRYe38 

Message 44 of 45
joel_smith
Tutor

Re: Orbi RBR50 Dropping Internet Connection Regularly

Arggh, I thought I had it with the DNS settings. Apparently not.

 

But today I have put the ISP modem into faux-bridge mode & connected the Orbi RBR50 to that, so far so good just need to tidy up the network rack now! Below is what I ended up with.

Screen Shot 2021-05-13 at 6.23.19 pm.png

Message 45 of 45
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