Orbi SRR60 router mode and dhcp server

[OrbiOnFire]

not sure if i have the right model. but on the rotuer status page it says SRR60. and when i google that it comes back iwth AC3000. there was about 7 from the drop down so i just picked the generic. 

So i am a little confused on the setup of this orbi system i inherited. 

I am trying to get it to communicate with our computers on ethernet who are getting IP from our DHCP server. they get 192.x.x.x 

the computers on the orbi wifi can ping the servers and computers inside the network. but the servers/computers on the 192.x.x.x network, cannot ping the computers on the orbi . 

i noticed that the computers on the orbi are gettting a 10.x.x.x address. so thats the issue. but i cant find a solid answer on what i need to do. 

so the orbi is in router mode. and when i go to advanced settings> setup> lan setup. I see that "use router as DHCP server" is checked. 

my first question is. if i uncheck that box, does that mean the computers on the orbi will try to get a dhcp address from our dhcp server ? I have read conflicting info that disabling that check box breaks some other things / doesnt work when the orbi is fed directly into another router. but our DHCP server is just fed through the network. so maybe that will work ? 

i also read that what i should do is turn the orbi into AP mode, and that turns off dhcp on the orbi. But where i get even more confused is whats the difference in AP mode, and Router Mode with the DHCP box unchecked ? isnt that basically the same as AP mode ? or do you get some extra functionality but doing router mode with DHCP unchecked ? 

[CrimpOn]

You found the correct solution: Put the Orbi in Access Point (AP) mode.  The Orbi and everything that connects to it will get an IP address from the DHCP server and everything will be in the same subnet.

Having two routers is generally thought of as a bad idea.

[michaelkenward]

Or, if you need to use features like parental controls that don't work in AP mode,  work out how to put the anonymous modem/router in  front of the Orbi into modem only (bridged) mode.

[OrbiOnFire]

so what happens when i leave in rotuer mode and uncheck dhcp ?

im on a corporate network, i dont need parental controls. lol. And i would rather not make changes on my corporate firewall to allow the orbi to do what it needs to do. I would rather change the orbi. So if i put into AP mode, im not losing any other critical features ? 

also if i put into AP mode and leave all the same settings. The clients shouldnt have an issue re-connecting right ? 

[michaelkenward]

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@OrbiOnFire wrote:

So if i put into AP mode, im not losing any other critical features ? 

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Define "critical features".

Unlike standard routers, there is no list of things that don't work in AP mode. But this may guide you:

Disabled Features on the Router when set to AP Mode | Answer | NETGEAR Support

[FURRYe38]

Be sure to post about this over in the Orbi Pro forum for your model Orbi:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-Pro-WiFi-for-Small-Business/bd-p/en-business-orbi-pro

Good Luck. 

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@OrbiOnFire wrote:

not sure if i have the right model. but on the rotuer status page it says SRR60. and when i google that it comes back iwth AC3000. there was about 7 from the drop down so i just picked the generic. 

So i am a little confused on the setup of this orbi system i inherited. 

I am trying to get it to communicate with our computers on ethernet who are getting IP from our DHCP server. they get 192.x.x.x 

the computers on the orbi wifi can ping the servers and computers inside the network. but the servers/computers on the 192.x.x.x network, cannot ping the computers on the orbi . 

i noticed that the computers on the orbi are gettting a 10.x.x.x address. so thats the issue. but i cant find a solid answer on what i need to do. 

so the orbi is in router mode. and when i go to advanced settings> setup> lan setup. I see that "use router as DHCP server" is checked. 

my first question is. if i uncheck that box, does that mean the computers on the orbi will try to get a dhcp address from our dhcp server ? I have read conflicting info that disabling that check box breaks some other things / doesnt work when the orbi is fed directly into another router. but our DHCP server is just fed through the network. so maybe that will work ? 

i also read that what i should do is turn the orbi into AP mode, and that turns off dhcp on the orbi. But where i get even more confused is whats the difference in AP mode, and Router Mode with the DHCP box unchecked ? isnt that basically the same as AP mode ? or do you get some extra functionality but doing router mode with DHCP unchecked ? 

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[CrimpOn]

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@OrbiOnFire wrote:

so what happens when i leave in rotuer mode and uncheck dhcp ?  I do not know if anyone has ever reported what happens.  Obviously, there has to be a DHCP server "somewhere".  My guess is the Orbi will get an IP like it always has, assign 10.0.0.1 to itself on its LAN side, and wait forever for something to connect, but they won't because their DHCP requests will go unanswered

This is easy to try.  Please report what happens.

im on a corporate network, i dont need parental controls. lol. And i would rather not make changes on my corporate firewall to allow the orbi to do what it needs to do. I would rather change the orbi. So if i put into AP mode, im not losing any other critical features ? 

I sincerely hope that this is YOUR corporate network.  Before I retired, one of our most frustrating tasks was stamping out rouge WiFi systems that (well-meaning) departments would install and mess with our university-wide system.  Our policy was "we WILL find you, and we WILL unplug it."

also if i put into AP mode and leave all the same settings. The clients shouldnt have an issue re-connecting right ? Keep the same WiFi name (SSID) and password.  They will all still connect.

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[OrbiOnFire]

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@CrimpOn wrote:

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@OrbiOnFire wrote:

so what happens when i leave in rotuer mode and uncheck dhcp ?  I do not know if anyone has ever reported what happens.  Obviously, there has to be a DHCP server "somewhere".  My guess is the Orbi will get an IP like it always has, assign 10.0.0.1 to itself on its LAN side, and wait forever for something to connect, but they won't because their DHCP requests will go unanswered

This is easy to try.  Please report what happens.

so thats the thing. currently the orbi is set to have a 192.168.x.x address. I was not sure if unchecking that box was for dhcp for the orbi itself, to receieve and address, or if that box is for the devices connecting to the orbi. And your guess of the requests going unanswered was was i was concerned about. - if having the orbi in router mode, and unchecking that box, doesnt mean that it allows pass through DHCP. it just means that you have to static assing the devices that connect to it. 

I also read somewhere that leaving it in router mode and turning the dhcp off, will basically put a double nat on the network which is no good. or is there double nat regarldess, if the orbi is in router mode?

im on a corporate network, i dont need parental controls. lol. And i would rather not make changes on my corporate firewall to allow the orbi to do what it needs to do. I would rather change the orbi. So if i put into AP mode, im not losing any other critical features ? 

I sincerely hope that this is YOUR corporate network.  Before I retired, one of our most frustrating tasks was stamping out rouge WiFi systems that (well-meaning) departments would install and mess with our university-wide system.  Our policy was "we WILL find you, and we WILL unplug it."

LOL yes i am the IT manager of sorts for the offices. my only issue with testing this, is it isnt as easy as that, as this is a remote office with the orbi. and i just dont want to make a change, and then have no way to connect to the orbi. but as long as i dont change the IP of the orbi from 192.168.x.x, i should be fine right? 

also if i put into AP mode and leave all the same settings. The clients shouldnt have an issue re-connecting right ? Keep the same WiFi name (SSID) and password.  They will all still connect.

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Awesome thank you for that answer too! 

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[CrimpOn]

Yes, if the Orbi is in router mode, then there are two routers.  One is serving the 192.168.x.x IP subnet and the Orbi is serving the 10.0.0.x subnet.  This is why the existing devices cannot "see" any device connected to the Orbi.  As far as they know, the Orbi is part of the 192.168.x.x IP space.

You will still be able to reach the Orbi no matter what mode it is set to, because it has that 192.168.1.x IP address.

On the Orbi Setup->LAN Setup web page, the check box is for the Orbi to act as a DHCP server for devices connected to the Orbi. When a device powers up, it send out a broadcast message saying, "What is my IP address?"  Broadcasts zip right through an access point, which is why the primary network will respond with an IP address from the main pool (192.168.1.x)  When the Orbi is a router and not serving DHCP, it will see the broadcast and think, "hmmm. wonder who is going to answer that request?  NOT ME."  I think the DHCP request will not penetrate the Orbi.  (And, this is where we need someone with more experience than I have.  I have never done this, and am not about to because the Orbi is the only DHCP server I have.)

[OrbiOnFire]

i will test that out 

i did go onto the console page and i saw the attached pic. 

i have 3 orbi satilites. will i need to log into them and put them in ap mode too ? 

[CrimpOn]

Satellite are always "in AP mode".  All router functions are performed in the router (when it is acting as a router).  The principal difference between mesh systems and a router with WiFi extenders connected to it is the coordination between devices and (in the case of Orbi) the independent 5G WiFi backhaul channel.  The AC3000 models even have separate radios and antennas for the backhaul link.

[OrbiOnFire]

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@CrimpOn wrote:

Satellite are always "in AP mode".  All router functions are performed in the router (when it is acting as a router).  The principal difference between mesh systems and a router with WiFi extenders connected to it is the coordination between devices and (in the case of Orbi) the independent 5G WiFi backhaul channel.  The AC3000 models even have separate radios and antennas for the backhaul link.

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not gonna lie, you lost me a bit lol. So right now i have the main hub in router mode and the satilites are acting as wifi extenders basically ? 

does that mean if i put the main hub in AP mode its going to be acting as a mesh network ? or is the orbi system all act as a mesh network already, and changing the hub to AP mode, juust adds another ap to that mesh network ? 

im wondering now. if i leave the orbi in router mode. uncheck that dhcp box. connect to one of the APs (as they had a dhcp address so they should still have it after i uncheck? or maybe i should change the ip of the ap first to 192,168.x.x and then uncheck that dhcp box? ), and see if it passes through dhcp to my server from the orbi hub ? 

im also guessing if i turn the orbi hub into ap mode, i am going to need to go to each AP and hard set the dhcp server address, dns, ip, etc. most likey before i change the hub into ap mode

[CrimpOn]

Yes, this can be confusing.  Satellites always get their IP address by doing a DHCP request.  Either the Orbi gives them one, or they get one from another DHCP server.  Orbi and its satellites are always a mesh network.  A mesh is different from "extenders" because there is management communication between the Orbi and the satellites.

I seriously think you are overthinking this.  why not put the Orbi in AP mode and see what happens?  The corporate DHCP server will hand out IP addresses to everything: Orbi, satellites, and devices connected to them.  Since you have a corporate network, you probably already have a firewall to protect everything, so Orbi router functions are superfluous.

[CrimpOn]

Oh, and no.  When you uncheck the DHCP Server box, it may take a while, but eventually the satellites will ask to renew their IP address and the Orbi will no longer be there to service them.

The option to disable Orbi being a DHCP server is for people who have "different needs" and want to go out of their way to provide DHCP to their network.

I do not have a separate DHCP server, so I cannot test what happens when the DHCP server option is unchecked.  C'mon.  It would be fun to give it a go and see what happens.

[OrbiOnFire]

ya i will give it a go, the issue is this is a remote office, so ill be doing it all over the wire. 

[OrbiOnFire]

so even when the orbi hub is in ap mode, the satilittes still reach out to it to get things like dns, where to forward the dhcp request, etc. ? 

like if i turned off the orbi hub but left the satilites on, and pluged in, they prob wouldnt get a dhcp adress from my dhcp server? or they would ?

im guessing because its a mesh network, if the hub goes down the satilites know how to communicate to the internet still, because they have all the needed network info. but that would only be if the hub was in AP mode, as right now the satilites are looking to the orbi hub, for the path out to the interwebs. 

[CrimpOn]

If the Orbi is turned off, the satellites lose their pathway to anything.  No router: no nothin.

[CrimpOn]

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@OrbiOnFire wrote:

ya i will give it a go, the issue is this is a remote office, so ill be doing it all over the wire. 

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Somehow I missed this. Hmmm.  I assume that (a) you have assigned the Orbi router an IP in your corporate router so that any time it gets rebooted it will get the same IP. and (b) you have someone in the remote office who can turn the power off and back on again?  When you do something like switch from router to AP, the Orbi will reboot and your web session will be temporarily lost.  In a bizzare way, you are in a fortunate situation because you already have a mechanism to get through your corporate firewall and get at computers inside the remote LAN (VPN probably?)