Orbi and Ethernet Switch / Backhaul Setup

[dixkom]

After reading this topic https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-and-Ethernet-Switch-Backhaul-Setup/td-p/1688979

I have some questions about my setup:

Router -> Netgear switch GS108PEv3 -> Orbi satellite 

Router -> Orbi router

Everything is wired connected, Router is managing ip addresses (disabled on Orbi). Everything looks working fine, however Orbi Satellite has magenta status light and wifi connection of satellite is not very stable. When I listen for example to online radio, then it stops after some time, it does not happen when I am connected to Orbi router.

I am currious if it has to do with the switch, any ideas? I don't have any available ports in Router, so cannot connect directly satellite to the Router.

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

These are the connecion senarious that you can connect RBS to the RBR:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

Direct or with using a switch in the middle between the RBR and RBS. 

NO idea why NG hasn't made the Orbi more compatbile with green ethernet features. Must be some reason. No idea if or when they will change that. So we just know, that some switches don't work well for Orbi systems. Some have posted that some green ethernet switches seem to work. Kind of a mixed bag. 

[CrimpOn]

Where is the Orbi router located (physically) relative to the ISP router?

The Orbi router expects satellite(s) to be connect either via WiFi or to one of the Orbi LAN ports.

If the ISP router and Orbi router are "next to each other", then the simple fix is to connect the satellite to the Orbi rather than to the switch.

[dixkom]

Router and Orbi router are on the same floor, however distance between them around 15 meters (CAT7 cable directly from router to Orbi router)

Router and switch in the same space, from switch CAT6E cable to 2nd floor (around 25 meters) where Orbi satelliet is positioned.

So, you think because satellite is not directly connected to the Orbi router, that can be a problem? I think it should not matter that between them there is a switch and a router.

[FURRYe38]

Yes. The RBS needs to be connected directly to the back of the RBR or if you need a switch, the switch needs to be connected behind the RBR then the RBS connected to the switch. BE sure to use a non managed non green ethernet switch. 

[dixkom]

Netgear switch GS108PEv3 is a managed switch (not sure green or not). So what is exaclty the problem with that, and can it be solved by disabling some features of switch? 

[FURRYe38]

Yes, disable ALL IGMP protocols on this switch. Seems to cause some problems if it's enabled and the switch is in between the RBR and RBS. 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-MR-2-1-Update-3-23-18/m-p/1553749/highlight/true#M30673

Green Switch: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/switching-requirements-for-ethernet-backhaul/m-p/1653718/highl...

[CrimpOn]

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@dixkom wrote:

Router and Orbi router are on the same floor, however distance between them around 15 meters (CAT7 cable directly from router to Orbi router)

Router and switch in the same space, from switch CAT6E cable to 2nd floor (around 25 meters) where Orbi satelliet is positioned.

So, you think because satellite is not directly connected to the Orbi router, that can be a problem? I think it should not matter that between them there is a switch and a router.

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There are several potential issues.  Netgear describes ethernet backhaul in this web article:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy... 

Notice that in every example, satellites are connected to one of the router LAN ports, never to the Orbi WAN port.

Just to double check, the Orbi web interface Attached Devices page does show the satellite connection as "Wired", not WiFi?

As @FURRYe38 mentioned, there is an additional complication that some switches do not work for ethernet backhaul, even when placed according to example three in the Netgear article.  There are many possible explanations for the problem, including IGMP snooping, being "managed", and being "smart".  To my knowledge, Netgear has never (a) described the specific characteristics required of the switch, or (b) provided a list of switches that are known to work.

What I think definitely would work is another ethernet cable between the Orbi location (LAN port) and the switch location, where instead of going into the switch, it would be patched directly to the cable going to the satellite.  This would create "example 1".  My guess is that this is horribly inconvenient or impractical.

[dixkom]

Yes, Orbi web interface Attached Devices shows connection as "Wired" and Backhaul status "Good", only on iPhone app the satelite has magenta color, and lights on satelite are also magenta. But everything looks working.

Just moved RBR connection from router to switch. Now both, RBR and RBS are on the switch, however RBR on WLAN port, otherwise it has no internet:

RBR (WAN) -> switch -> RBS

Off-topic: some other issue is till today my switch provided only 100MB connection to RBR, while directly to the router it was 1000MB. Today it was first time also only 100MB, but last time it increased to 1000MB. And it is not possible to select manualy speed per port. Today disabled "IGMP Snooping Status", maybe that is why.

[SmilingEddie]

Ha! Cracked it!

Connect the router and sattelites to an old switch, in my case an old Netgear GS105, but probably any non-modern switch will do. DO NOT connect the router via the yellow Internet socket.  Press Sync on router and all satellites and it happens.  I then moved the satellites to different corners of the house, reconnected them to the LAN with its green switch and they remembered they continued to use the ethernet backhaul. I changed the IP address on the router, which caused it to reboot and had to borrow the GS105 from the museum to set them up once more but they've been stable ethernet backhauling ever since.

Odd quirk is that the router is still showing a magenta light, as reported by others, but works fine. Google speeds above 200mbps sometimes on each of them so I think that bit is cracked - for me.

Now to assign static addresses to the satellites to move them into the "network kit" address band.

[FURRYe38]

Yes, be sure to use the LAN ports on the back of the RBR for connections to wired devices and the RBS. The yellow port is for connecting the RBR to the ISP Modem or a host router. 

Please mark your thread as solved so others will know. 

Enjoy. 

[SmilingEddie]

The confusion arose because the connection to the ISP was via a CISCO router on the LAN, so I plugged the LAN cable into the yellow Internet socket and it worked - but only when it was using WiFi backhaul to the satellites.

Is this a fix or a workaround NETGEAR's failure to design the Orbi to work with contemporary green network equipment? 

It relieved my pain but NETGEAR needs to get its head out of the sand, see where the rest of industry is heading and fall into line.  

Can't see where to mark the thread as fixed anyway.

[dixkom]

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@FURRYe38 wrote:

Yes, be sure to use the LAN ports on the back of the RBR for connections to wired devices and the RBS. The yellow port is for connecting the RBR to the ISP Modem or a host router. 

Please mark your thread as solved so others will know. 

Enjoy. 

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I cannot connect RBS to RBR to lan port, for that I need to have one extra cable and that is not possible.

Maybe I should ask now a different question: What will work/be better if I connnect RBS to RBR lan port? At he moment everything works, exepts magenta light on RBS and less stable wifi ion RBS.

[FURRYe38 · Accepted solution]

These are the connecion senarious that you can connect RBS to the RBR:

https://kb.netgear.com/000051205/What-is-Ethernet-backhaul-and-how-do-I-set-it-up-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-Sy...

Direct or with using a switch in the middle between the RBR and RBS. 

NO idea why NG hasn't made the Orbi more compatbile with green ethernet features. Must be some reason. No idea if or when they will change that. So we just know, that some switches don't work well for Orbi systems. Some have posted that some green ethernet switches seem to work. Kind of a mixed bag.