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Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

Swiedeback
Aspirant

Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

Good morning all-

I’m currently using an orbi RBK50 system. The base station is in my office (upstairs), and the satellite is also upstairs in our game room. I have a PS4 and a few other devices wired to the satellite.

I’ve noticed that I’m getting a fairly weak signal in parts of the main level with this configuration. Yet, I’m hesitant to move the satellite downstairs, because having it hard wired to the PS4 gives me faster speeds for online gaming.

The house is about 3,500 square feet, and the main level is pretty open. The square footage is pretty even on both floors.

Obviously I could buy another orbi satellite for downstairs, but I’ve already got a nighthawk X8 router that’s not being used, as well as a netgear ac1900 range extender (and a few other older routers laying around).

I love the orbi’s ability to have one SSID for everything.

My question is this- is there a way to use the nighthawk X8 router (& possibly the range extender also and/or the older routers) to create a better wireless structure downstairs? I’d really like to be able to hard wire some devices that are connected to the main level TV. And I’d really like to keep the PS4 upstairs hard-wired.

I’ve got a 1 GB connection, and it does pull a signal close to that from the connection point in the office. Also, running Ethernet cables throughout the house isn’t an option- because we’re renting.

Thanks in advance for any advice on how to better use my older equipment.

A second question. I’ve got a smartthings system linked in to the main orbi router, and when I’m done building it out, I’ll have 75+ zigbee & Z-wave devices linked in to it.

Is there any advantage to setting up a separate SSID exclusively for that system? And, with my listed equipment, is there a way to set everything up to utilize my space better? If that would require a separate SSID, that would be fine if I’m isolating the smartthings system. I’m using the smartthings nvidia shield dongle for my ST hub. It’s hard wired into the orbi base station currently.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice. And please keep in mind that while I like technology, I don’t have a ton of time to dig into the technical aspects. I just want to know how to hook everything up properly so it’s wife approved ;).
Model: RBK50| Orbi AC3000 High-Performance Tri-Band WiFi System
Message 1 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

What Firmware is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

 

I believe the R series routers only support Router/AP/Wireless Bridge mode. They don't repeat or extend wifi. 

 

You might benefit by using the R series router as a 2ndary wired AP to the Orbi and off load some non essential or non managed very often devices on to the AP. 

 

 

Message 2 of 23
Swiedeback
Aspirant

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

I’ll have to check the additional details later tonight. I’m a few hours away from home right now.

I do know that the modem is the one that spectrum supplies with the gig internet package. I have a fully capable netgear docsis 3.0 (maybe even 3.1) modem, but for some reason they haven’t cleared it for their service (other providers that offer gig service allow that modem).

And the base and the satellite (both upstairs) are Around 25-30 feet away from one another. I could move the satellite unit farther away from the base unit, and maybe get the distance up to around 40 feet. That would require a bunch of cables running back to the entertainment center, but I’ve got enough of them to do it.

I’ve noticed that the connected devices downstairs sometimes drop out with my current configuration.

I could always just get another satellite unit for the orbi, but I’d really like to put the nighthawk router and possibly even the extender to use.

Would it be better to simply sell the nighthawk and extender, and use that cash for another orbi satellite unit? Thinking that may be easier.

Also, is there a way to use some of the older routers as access points? I’ll have to get the model #’s for those also, but it would be nice to use them to hard wire things in different parts of the main level.

Thanks for the quick response. I’ll post the model numbers and firmware later tonight when I’m home.
Message 3 of 23
schumaku
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900


@Swiedeback wrote:
A second question. I’ve got a smartthings system linked in to the main orbi router, and when I’m done building it out, I’ll have 75+ zigbee & Z-wave devices linked in to it.

Is there any advantage to setting up a separate SSID exclusively for that system? 

So there is some kind of controller for these IoT - where none does connect direct to WiFi. Shouldn't a controller for tis automation system be connected by Ethernet? And then, don't you expect being able to reach that contoller from other systems on your (W)LAN?

Message 4 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

Have you tried setting up the old Router in "Bridge" mode to the main Orbi router?

 

The old Router has better WiFi HW and range than typical WiFi devices.  Bridge mode will enable all your devices to have wire connection to the old Router, i.e. my poor man Satellite.  You can try to place the old Router at the current Satellite location and see if you get the same performance.  If yes, then move the Satellite downstairs.  Otherwise, put the old Router downstairs if that yields better performance.  Good luck!

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 5 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

...just to add to my previous notes.

 

The best benefit of using old Router in Bridge mode (other than saving money) in Orbi setup is that we will get Daisy-Chain for free, which is much better than any range extender setup.  Depending on the HW, you might only get 1/2 WiFi BW with range extender.

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 6 of 23
Swiedeback
Aspirant

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

The smartthings hub (via a dongle that links to an nvidia shield) is directly wired to the Ethernet. In short, it goes ST dongle —-> nvidia shield —-> Ethernet wired to orbi base unit. I’ve got a switch for other stuff, but I believe that one is Ethernet wired directly into the orbi base unit.

I believe ST talks independently to the individual IOT devices from the Wi-Fi (via either zigbee or z-wave).

I just didn’t know if there was any advantage to putting the Smartthings system on its own SSID. Right now with the two orbi units I’ve got a single combined SSID. I don’t think that the ST setup draws enough bandwidth to mess with the other devices on the combined orbi SSID, but I thought I’d ask if anyone has more experience with that in this area.
Message 7 of 23
Swiedeback
Aspirant

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

Thank you re: bridge mode. And for your help in general.

Does that require hardwiring? I would assume it does. I could possibly run Ethernet wire from the office to the game room (basically an upstairs living room for those that aren’t familiar with the term), and do it by hiding it beside/under the floor’s trim. I don’t think I’ll be able to send it through the ceiling- though that would seem to be the more direct way to do it.

Anyone have any advice on thin/unobtrusive Ethernet wire? It would have to go in and around two door frames before it would get to the PS4. It would probably require 40-50 feet of Ethernet to run it around everything. I might be able to pull the carpet out to run it underneath- that would seem to be the better option.

It would be nice to use the nighthawk’s expanded capability with the PS4. Ive never actually had it hard wired to the nighthawk, only to the orbi satellite. I’ll have to check out bridge mode later tonight (I’ve never set an old router up that way).

Thanks again!
Message 8 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

The advantage with a single SSID is simplicity.  Multiple SSIDs still share the same chan/band and will only hurt performance, which you will not notice it in normal use, but only when your wireless game/gig starts acting up.  If you can offload them to a separate AP, that would be best.

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 9 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

FYI about Bridge mode on the R series, this is ONLY for a wireless connection between the R router in bridge mode to the Orbi. Bridge mode does NOT provide a wireless single to other client wireless devices. Devices that can be connected to the R router in bridge mode would be only LAN cable RJ45 supporting devices. 

Message 10 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

@Swiedeback  wrote:

 

>> Does that require hardwiring?

 

No.  It doesn't require wiring.  Think of Bridge mode as another way to get separate Orbi's backhaul.  Orbi's backhaul is just a private Bridge to all its Satellites.  In this case, we just use the 2.4G or 5G as a 2nd backhaul.

Message 11 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

@FURRYe38  wrote:

 

>> Bridge mode does NOT provide a wireless single to other client wireless devices....

 

Right.  If you also want wireless at that location, just connect a 2nd old WiFi router to one of the Bridge eithernet ports and put the 2nd router in AP mode.

Message 12 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

I would not recommend doing that. Would be too much wireless noise near each other. Might be too problematic. 

 

For the size of his home, The current system should be working well with little dead zones. Placement will be key here. If anything maybe the addition of 1 more RBS could be needed. I would first start with re-placement of the RBS to see if that can help cover some of the dead spots. 

Message 13 of 23
Chuck_M
Mentor

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

 


@schumaku wrote:

@Swiedeback wrote:
A second question. I’ve got a smartthings system linked in to the main orbi router, and when I’m done building it out, I’ll have 75+ zigbee & Z-wave devices linked in to it.

Is there any advantage to setting up a separate SSID exclusively for that system? 

So there is some kind of controller for these IoT - where none does connect direct to WiFi. Shouldn't a controller for tis automation system be connected by Ethernet? And then, don't you expect being able to reach that contoller from other systems on your (W)LAN?


 

 

Zigbee and Zwave devices are not enumerated by a router.... they are controlled instead by a single hub -- which may or may not be connected to your IP based network, so you could have one or a thousand Zwave devices and they would react the same.

 

As an example, my zwave devices are controlled by an alarm system and have no physical connection to the router.  Zwave devices do not ride on an 802.11 network, they form their own mesh network on a different frequency.

 

In your case, you may have a zwave controller connected to your router, but it is just a single device no matter how many locks, lights and sensors you may have.

Message 14 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

@FURRYe38   wrote:

 

>> Would be too much wireless noise near each other. Might be too problematic. 

 

Wireless noise near each other will not be a problem as long as they are configured to use separate channels.  Even if you don't pick it manually, the routers by design will pick the least uncongested/unused channel automatically as well.  That's what the Orbi or Nighthawk will do on its own as well.  By design, these routers can pick/use all the availble channels.

 

I have this setup for a long time until the Orbi shows up.  I still recycle my good old routers this way.

 

This is another way to add as many APs as you want without spending an arm and a leg for additional Satellites.

 

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 15 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

Of course it's cost effective and can be done. 

What is the distance between your bridge and the wired AP connected to it? 

 

Of course for ease of setup and troubleshooting, might be easier to add a satellite, If needed. Smiley Wink


@SW_ wrote:

@FURRYe38   wrote:

 

>> Would be too much wireless noise near each other. Might be too problematic. 

 

Wireless noise near each other will not be a problem as long as they are configured to use separate channels.  Even if you don't pick it manually, the routers by design will pick the least uncongested/unused channel automatically as well.  That's what the Orbi or Nighthawk will do on its own as well.  By design, these routers can pick/use all the availble channels.

 

I have this setup for a long time until the Orbi shows up.  I still recycle my good old routers this way.

 

This is another way to add as many APs as you want without spending an arm and a leg for additional Satellites.

 


 

Message 16 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

The distance can be as long the length of the wire/location, or right next to each other in my case, between my Bridge and my AP.

 

I currently also have an old router sitting right next to the main Orbi Router, each broadcasts its own separate SSIDs to enable my band sensitive WiFi devices from switching from 5G to 2.4G along with the single Orbi SSID.  That's how I partition my wired and 2.4G/5G WiFi networks to overcome weak signals (dead spots) as well as the problem of Orbi v44 firmware not supporting separate SSIDs properly.

 

This combination of Bridge/AP give me an alternative option without having to pay for an extra Orbi Satellite.  Yes, it's cost effective for me.  I hate to leave those good old $200-$300+ routers I paid for a few years back sitting idle and collecting dust.  I don't want to pay new money for a less efficient, yet more expensive WiFi Extender either.

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 17 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

I presume there is some noise levels being that close though. Well, glad it works for you. 

How big is your home? 

Message 18 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

It is about 3500sqft.

 

Yes, there will always be wireless noise around, which could be from neighbors, school, or business complexes.  My neighbors are 6ft away with me sandwiched in between them.  Yours might vary depending on the density at your city/location.

 

It's better to play around and try different setups until one that works best.  The worst case scenario is that you will end up with where you've started.  When I do have more disposable incomes, I can simply swap it out with a new Satellite.  🙂

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 19 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

Kewl. Mines 5000sq ft. No issues with just a Orbi system in place. Currently testing a RBR 50. Need to add the RBS50 tonight and see. Just got to get the RBS updated some how. Smiley Frustrated

Message 20 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

A single Orbi setup (R+2S) will cover my smaller home as well.  But good signals don't always translate into good consistent latency or transfer speed.  If you ever try playing PS4 online games over WiFi vs hardwire to Bridge/AP, you will quickly realize the difference between a happy vs a disgruntled gamer.

 

Your use case might be different than mine and a single Orbi setup maybe all you need.  For me, I would also prefer single Orbi setup as well if it serves all my use cases.  Also, not all of us have the luxury/freedom to place the Orbi at ideal location without the wrath of our significant others.  🙂

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 21 of 23
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

Yes, I hear you on that one. I have a mother in law to deal with. So I do feel your pain. Smiley Frustrated

Message 22 of 23
SW_
Prodigy
Prodigy

Re: Orbi router & satellite (RBK50) plus nighthawk X8 plus nighthawk extender ac1900

@Swiedeback wrote :

 

>> ...  I’ll have to check out bridge mode later tonight (I’ve never set an old router up that way).

 

To get the best performance, the Nighthawk must pick 5G as its wireless media bridge.  With your Orbi single SSID setup, you should disable 2.4G wireless radio on the Nighthawk.  That will ensure that it will always establish 5G wireless media bridge (aka wireless backhaul) to the nearest Orbi signal, which could be the Router or the Satellite.  If it's connected to Satellite, then you get wireless Daisy-Chain for free.

Message 23 of 23
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