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Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

Let us know...


@prasen82 wrote:
Hi,

The modem is Motorola docsis sb6141.home is 3500 and satellite is in second floor while router is in first floor.

I will try the rest and let you know what I observe. This started happening over the last 1 month.




 

Message 501 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

This thread is massive and I'm having trouble navigating it. Did we get any resolution to this? I'm finding that *several times per day* one or more of my satellites will completely stop routing to the internet. They still broadcast wifi and route traffic internal to the house (ie, I can VPN to my iMac from across the house) but they can't route out. What is the deal here? This product so great except for this issue, but this is a deal-breaker.

Model: RBK53| Orbi Router + 2 Satellites Orbi WiFi System
Message 502 of 571
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

What FW is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
How are the satellites connected to the router? wireless or wired?


What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

 


@skandocious wrote:

This thread is massive and I'm having trouble navigating it. Did we get any resolution to this? I'm finding that *several times per day* one or more of my satellites will completely stop routing to the internet. They still broadcast wifi and route traffic internal to the house (ie, I can VPN to my iMac from across the house) but they can't route out. What is the deal here? This product so great except for this issue, but this is a deal-breaker.


 

Message 503 of 571
zekaonar
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

I had the same problem you did.  My satellites would stop routing out but internal network worked great.  After struggling for a month my solution was to replace the Orbi system.  If this is a known problem that they are working to address, Netgear hasn't communicated anything to those people that have been struggling.  If it is not too late to return your products, pick a different wifi system before its too late.  It was too late for me.

Message 504 of 571
nvt
Apprentice
Apprentice

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

The fact that you have found it tells me you are having the same problem that many others including myself have reported

It remains unresolved - for some people the system appears to work (My personal view is this is not really true they just don't have a network or use their network in such a way to notice the recurrent connection drops). 

You could listen to the advice and try and work with Netgear support but you will burn huge amounts of time and likely never get it resolved.

My strongest advice to you return the equipment now - immediately before your return period runs out and you are stuck with a useless paperweight. I have already had to buy a replacement system that works. I purchased Ubiquiti and can recommend them for their support and the technology (but the learning curve is steep unless you opt for the AmliFi system)

Message 505 of 571
nvt
Apprentice
Apprentice

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

And as for the troubleshooting advice that's dispensed here - it repeats over and over. Same steps which don't resolve anything for those suffering this disconnect

Download the thread and search for the terms and you will find this same advice repeated over and over. That indicates to me fundamental issues with this device giving you yet another reason to return immediately before you are out of the return period

 

Message 506 of 571
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

I set up my friends system months back:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

Zero issues with it since...Not everyone is having problems either. Suggestes have been helping others as well.


@skandocious wrote:

This thread is massive and I'm having trouble navigating it. Did we get any resolution to this? I'm finding that *several times per day* one or more of my satellites will completely stop routing to the internet. They still broadcast wifi and route traffic internal to the house (ie, I can VPN to my iMac from across the house) but they can't route out. What is the deal here? This product so great except for this issue, but this is a deal-breaker.


 

Message 507 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection


@FURRYe38 wrote:

I set up my friends system months back:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

Zero issues with it since...Not everyone is having problems either. Suggestes have been helping others as well.


@skandocious wrote:

This thread is massive and I'm having trouble navigating it. Did we get any resolution to this? I'm finding that *several times per day* one or more of my satellites will completely stop routing to the internet. They still broadcast wifi and route traffic internal to the house (ie, I can VPN to my iMac from across the house) but they can't route out. What is the deal here? This product so great except for this issue, but this is a deal-breaker.


 


What are the specific suggestions for me to try? All my nodes are on current firmware and my cable Modem (Arris Surfboard) is quite new. And I don't want to turn off features in Orbi to make this work (because why should I?)

 

Also it's ridiculous to be asking about our broadband modems because when the outages happen at the satellites, routing still works from the primary node/router, so this is obviously an Orbi-related issue.

Message 508 of 571
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

Reason for asking is that some ISP modems have combo routers incluced, this can cause problems.

Depending on configuration, some features are not needed. If you don't have any MIMO devices then this can be disabled, same for Fast Roaming. If your satellites are wired, then Daisy Chain is not needed.

If you need or asking for help we ask that you please try to give feedback to the questions presented, it only helps us understand your particular configuration which may differ from others. Not everyone has the same configurations and has different environments. Were only here to try and help you out. If you feel otherwise then you can contact NG support.

Good Luck.


@skandocious wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I set up my friends system months back:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

Zero issues with it since...Not everyone is having problems either. Suggestes have been helping others as well.


@skandocious wrote:

This thread is massive and I'm having trouble navigating it. Did we get any resolution to this? I'm finding that *several times per day* one or more of my satellites will completely stop routing to the internet. They still broadcast wifi and route traffic internal to the house (ie, I can VPN to my iMac from across the house) but they can't route out. What is the deal here? This product so great except for this issue, but this is a deal-breaker.


 


What are the specific suggestions for me to try? All my nodes are on current firmware and my cable Modem (Arris Surfboard) is quite new. And I don't want to turn off features in Orbi to make this work (because why should I?)

 

Also it's ridiculous to be asking about our broadband modems because when the outages happen at the satellites, routing still works from the primary node/router, so this is obviously an Orbi-related issue.


 

Message 509 of 571
zekaonar
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection


@skandocious wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I set up my friends system months back:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

Zero issues with it since...Not everyone is having problems either. Suggestes have been helping others as well.


@skandocious wrote:

This thread is massive and I'm having trouble navigating it. Did we get any resolution to this? I'm finding that *several times per day* one or more of my satellites will completely stop routing to the internet. They still broadcast wifi and route traffic internal to the house (ie, I can VPN to my iMac from across the house) but they can't route out. What is the deal here? This product so great except for this issue, but this is a deal-breaker.


 


What are the specific suggestions for me to try? All my nodes are on current firmware and my cable Modem (Arris Surfboard) is quite new. And I don't want to turn off features in Orbi to make this work (because why should I?)

 

Also it's ridiculous to be asking about our broadband modems because when the outages happen at the satellites, routing still works from the primary node/router, so this is obviously an Orbi-related issue.


So I had the exact same issue you are going through.  Satellites would loose internet connectivity but the router would remain connectioned and the backchannel kept working so that anything connected to the satellites could still talk to the internal network, it just couldn't route out.  I turned on/off all advanced features and tried the troubleshooting steps here.  I have a Comp Sci degree and I went as far as telneting into the devices to try to see if I could see where the routing tables or a gateway got corrupted but I hit a point where it just wasn't worth my time.  There probably exists a firmware version that doesn't have this issue and if you look through reviews and history you can see that Netgear breaks something every other firmware.  If anyone from Netgear took the time to say, "a fix is coming" or "test this beta firmware for us" I would have stuck it out but their support is non-existant.  I switched to the Amplifi system and a haven't had an issue and I haven't needed to bounce any devices since the original setup.  Cons:  it is much slower than Orbi and it doesn't have built-in Circle support (which my wife liked).  But a working system is better than a broken one.

Message 510 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

- Daisy chaining is already disabled. 

- Implicit beamforming is already disabled.

- MU-MIMO was enabled, I have disabled this for now.

- Fast roaming was enabled, I have disabled this for now.

 

Message 511 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection


@zekaonar wrote:

@skandocious wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

I set up my friends system months back:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1592753/highli...

Zero issues with it since...Not everyone is having problems either. Suggestes have been helping others as well.


@skandocious wrote:

This thread is massive and I'm having trouble navigating it. Did we get any resolution to this? I'm finding that *several times per day* one or more of my satellites will completely stop routing to the internet. They still broadcast wifi and route traffic internal to the house (ie, I can VPN to my iMac from across the house) but they can't route out. What is the deal here? This product so great except for this issue, but this is a deal-breaker.


 


What are the specific suggestions for me to try? All my nodes are on current firmware and my cable Modem (Arris Surfboard) is quite new. And I don't want to turn off features in Orbi to make this work (because why should I?)

 

Also it's ridiculous to be asking about our broadband modems because when the outages happen at the satellites, routing still works from the primary node/router, so this is obviously an Orbi-related issue.


So I had the exact same issue you are going through.  Satellites would loose internet connectivity but the router would remain connectioned and the backchannel kept working so that anything connected to the satellites could still talk to the internal network, it just couldn't route out.  I turned on/off all advanced features and tried the troubleshooting steps here.  I have a Comp Sci degree and I went as far as telneting into the devices to try to see if I could see where the routing tables or a gateway got corrupted but I hit a point where it just wasn't worth my time.  There probably exists a firmware version that doesn't have this issue and if you look through reviews and history you can see that Netgear breaks something every other firmware.  If anyone from Netgear took the time to say, "a fix is coming" or "test this beta firmware for us" I would have stuck it out but their support is non-existant.  I switched to the Amplifi system and a haven't had an issue and I haven't needed to bounce any devices since the original setup.  Cons:  it is much slower than Orbi and it doesn't have built-in Circle support (which my wife liked).  But a working system is better than a broken one.


Was just doing some research on Amplifi -- seems it doesn't have dedicated 5GHz backhaul? Seems like a major downside compared to Orbi. Also the physical design is a bit annoying (hanging off the wall), and lacks ethernet ports in the satellites (something I'm currently using to reduce wireless traffic/congestion as much as possible). I do like the fact that it seems it has a lot more network customizations and tweaking -- seems to me that Orbi is designed be stupid simple however I know quite a bit a networking and like to tweak things (eg, I'd like to configure the router to directly serve a Pi-Hole DNS server via DHCP rather than serving 192.168.1.1 and proxying to Pi-Hole).

Message 512 of 571
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

What is the model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? Having alot of wifi neighbors near by can also be a cause of wifi problems on any wifi router.

 

Let us know if any of those changes experiences differences...I usally keep Beamforming enabled and everything else disabled...didn't see any issues for my devices...at somepoint, re-enabled Beamforming by itself.


@skandocious wrote:

- Daisy chaining is already disabled. 

- Implicit beamforming is already disabled.

- MU-MIMO was enabled, I have disabled this for now.

- Fast roaming was enabled, I have disabled this for now.

 


 

Message 513 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection


@FURRYe38 wrote:

What is the model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? Having alot of wifi neighbors near by can also be a cause of wifi problems on any wifi router.

 

Let us know if any of those changes experiences differences...I usally keep Beamforming enabled and everything else disabled...didn't see any issues for my devices...at somepoint, re-enabled Beamforming by itself.



- Modem is Arris Surfboard SB6190 (not a router)

- Home is ~2000 sq. feet (RBK53 is honestly overkill for this, coverage shouldn't be an issue)

- Single family home on a corner so I have 1 neighbor direct to side and 1 directly behind, other neighbors are across streets.

- Spacing between nodes is roughly 30-40 ft

- Channels are set to auto, I have no interest in using manual channels and trying to dodge my neighbor's channels which roam constantly. I've been down this road with other routers and it's annoying.

Message 514 of 571
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

2000sq ft is a small form factor for a 50 series sytem. At most you should only need a router only or maybe 1 satellite if there places at opposing ends of the home. I have a 5000sq ft home, router at one end up stairs and the satellite 40 feet at the opposite end. Have had not problems with satellite. Both wireless and wired back haul.

 

You can turn down the power on the Routers radio from 100% to say 75% and test. This will reduce the broadcase foot print of your orbi so theres less going out side the home and less interferences from your nieghbors...Nature of the wifi beast, with channels and neighbors.

 

FYI, your 6190 is on a bad modems list as well. Not a great modem due to bugs in the chip set if your not already aware of that.

 


@skandocious wrote:



- Modem is Arris Surfboard SB6190 (not a router)

- Home is ~2000 sq. feet (RBK53 is honestly overkill for this, coverage shouldn't be an issue)

- Single family home on a corner so I have 1 neighbor direct to side and 1 directly behind, other neighbors are across streets.

- Spacing between nodes is roughly 30-40 ft

- Channels are set to auto, I have no interest in using manual channels and trying to dodge my neighbor's channels which roam constantly. I've been down this road with other routers and it's annoying.


 

Message 515 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

Just so I’m clear, are you saying I have *too much* wireless coverage in my home and it could be causing these issues?

Also can you please provide some references to where my modem is showing on a “bad modems” list?
Message 516 of 571
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

Very possible. Think of it like a crouded restaurant. You hear over lapping conversations from near by tables. Kind same with having too much wifi. If you have the base router and 2-3 satellites all going and there too close, then things are just not going to work well. Not how wifi signals are designed to operate. There needs to be a limit on wifi sources and a minimum safe distance in between the wifi sources to work well. Try using the base Orbi router alone at first if placed centrally in the home on the main floor. Then try just adding 1 satellite at a remote location where signal maybe low or none...

 

http://www.badmodems.com/

Intel and Arris have been working on it...be it very slowly. Smiley Frustrated


@skandocious wrote:
Just so I’m clear, are you saying I have *too much* wireless coverage in my home and it could be causing these issues?

Also can you please provide some references to where my modem is showing on a “bad modems” list?

 

Message 517 of 571
nvt
Apprentice
Apprentice

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

I'm sorry but I just disagree

I set up the same configuration - one base station and 2 satellites from Ubiquiti and their Amplifi system and it worked flawlessly and with great coverage, great connectivity, and ease of set up and use.

That same configuration with the Orbi base station and 2 satellites has given me 3 months of pain, failure of my network (wired and wireless), days without access to my network and network data stores and the internet and hours on the phone to a technical support desk to no avail

The Orbi device has a fundamental problem that affects some users (and maybe all users). 

Don't risk your most important asset in your house to this device. 

For a point of comparison, I had x2 technical questions about the amplifi setup and received an email response in <1 hour. I have waited days for any kind of response from Netgear support and spent x4 times that amount of time on hold with no response on just one of the many calls

Return the device and get something else if you still can - I can't emphasize this enough

 

Message 518 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

Amplifi looks pretty compelling... Can you get 5Ghz anywhere in the home with a router + 2 satellite setup? I'm getting 5Ghz everywhere with Orbi right now, and I can saturate my 150Mbps ISP connection from any 802.11ac device anywhere in the house. If I can continue to do this with Amplifi (150Mbps isn't asking much, really), then I'll be pretty happy.

Message 519 of 571
zekaonar
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection


@skandocious wrote:

Amplifi looks pretty compelling... Can you get 5Ghz anywhere in the home with a router + 2 satellite setup? I'm getting 5Ghz everywhere with Orbi right now, and I can saturate my 150Mbps ISP connection from any 802.11ac device anywhere in the house. If I can continue to do this with Amplifi (150Mbps isn't asking much, really), then I'll be pretty happy.


I have a very large house and a router +2 satellites is providing great coverage with Amplifi, but it is not able to do the speeds of Orbi.  I'm only getting 20 Mbps on devices connected to the satellites.  Orbi would be my ideal system if it actually worked reliably.

Message 520 of 571
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?I have a 5000sqft home, use just the base router and 1 satellite, either wired or wireless, had no problems in either configuration.

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try disabling the following and see:
MIMO, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).


@zekaonar wrote:


I have a very large house and a router +2 satellites is providing great coverage with Amplifi, but it is not able to do the speeds of Orbi.  I'm only getting 20 Mbps on devices connected to the satellites.  Orbi would be my ideal system if it actually worked reliably.


 

Message 521 of 571
nvt
Apprentice
Apprentice

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

That's the crux of the issue - "IF" it works - which it did and does not in my case

If you want full on WiFi speeds buy into UniFi system from Ubiquiti and add in a couple of Unifi US-AP points with PoE and live and breathe reliable connections. Warning - steep learning curve to move to this but imho worth the effort.

My network is the most valuable asset in my house - just turn it off for a couple of days to understand why

Amplifi is limited on a/b/g and had no back-channel support but it worked and was really easy to set up. Limited config and control but it works

The amplifi is a step down with some limitations but its a working system backed up by support

 

Message 522 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

Man 20Mbps is honestly abysmal, unless of course you mean 20 megaBYTEs/sec (equiv to 160Mbits/sec)... Are you really only getting 20Mbps on Amplifi? If so, that's a non-starter for me.

Message 523 of 571
zekaonar
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

lol, you are right.  I was so happy to have a stable connection I never stopped to look into why I wasn't getting 802.11ac speeds.  I was connecting to Orbi over a wired connection on this desktop and I had never used wireless on it, and I didn't even have my wireless antennas plugged in and it decided to use 802.11n.  Fixed both of those and I can get 105-120 Mbps off a mesh satellite that says it has a 76-83% signal rating to the router.  I typically see 120-150 Mbps off a speedtest directly on the router which is in the ballpark of my comcast connection.  I haven't tried to optimize further yet, but I'd think I should be able to get the full isp bandwidth.

Message 524 of 571
skandocious
Guide

Re: Orbi satellite dropping connection

Whelp, we're back to a no-routing scenario today after tweaking those settings yesterday. I'm done with this product-- will be ordering Amplifi later today and returning Orbi. Big shame-- when this product works correctly it's fantastic.

Message 525 of 571
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