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Re: Orbi -v- Eero

MikeSpragg
Aspirant

Orbi -v- Eero

How would you approach that ? - does Orbi fare better in some way (speed etc) - as Eero, er, has the edge on aestetics (very small form factor) - but if Orbi was better by some margin then the increased size is worth ignoring.

Message 1 of 23

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DarrenM
Sr. NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Hello MikeSpragg

 

Other existing WiFi systems are dual band AC1200 systems. They have the same limitations that AC1200 range extenders have. Namely that they provide coverage, but not the speeds required for fast internet connections.  Since they use the same radios to talk to clients and other nodes in their system, there’s a large system-wide loss in bandwidth to transmit data between the nodes. This is why when you add several devices to their network, the combined throughput of the entire network drops significantly.

 

Orbi uses tri-band mesh, with a combined speed of AC3000. This gives us a gigantic speed advantage over the other Wifi systems. We use one of the bands for a dedicated connection between the nodes in the system. (the kit we announced yesterday is two nodes, but we also allow for expansion if you need more coverage). This means that we don’t have to share time when listening for clients and other nodes in the system. Due to this, our own internal testing shows that we’re anywhere from two to ten times faster than the other wifi systems throughout a customer’s house.

 

Additionally, due to the strong connection between the units, device placement is not critical like other wireless systems. I believe other wireless systems recommend line of sight placement within 40 feet of each other. We recommend customers place one Orbi next to their modem or cable gateway, and the other somewhere centrally in their house. We don’t depend on line of sight. While we may be a bit larger than other wireless systems, this added flexibility means you don’t have to place networking devices awkwardly at the top and bottom of the stairs at your house, or in the middle of your hallway. We think this is much more realistic in modern houses than measuring out the feet between the nodes.

 

DarrenM

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Message 2 of 23

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DarrenM
Sr. NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Hello MikeSpragg

 

Other existing WiFi systems are dual band AC1200 systems. They have the same limitations that AC1200 range extenders have. Namely that they provide coverage, but not the speeds required for fast internet connections.  Since they use the same radios to talk to clients and other nodes in their system, there’s a large system-wide loss in bandwidth to transmit data between the nodes. This is why when you add several devices to their network, the combined throughput of the entire network drops significantly.

 

Orbi uses tri-band mesh, with a combined speed of AC3000. This gives us a gigantic speed advantage over the other Wifi systems. We use one of the bands for a dedicated connection between the nodes in the system. (the kit we announced yesterday is two nodes, but we also allow for expansion if you need more coverage). This means that we don’t have to share time when listening for clients and other nodes in the system. Due to this, our own internal testing shows that we’re anywhere from two to ten times faster than the other wifi systems throughout a customer’s house.

 

Additionally, due to the strong connection between the units, device placement is not critical like other wireless systems. I believe other wireless systems recommend line of sight placement within 40 feet of each other. We recommend customers place one Orbi next to their modem or cable gateway, and the other somewhere centrally in their house. We don’t depend on line of sight. While we may be a bit larger than other wireless systems, this added flexibility means you don’t have to place networking devices awkwardly at the top and bottom of the stairs at your house, or in the middle of your hallway. We think this is much more realistic in modern houses than measuring out the feet between the nodes.

 

DarrenM

Message 2 of 23
MikeSpragg
Aspirant

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Great, thanks for that in-depth answer. I'd not read the LoS requirement. Can't wait to get my hands on a unit !
Message 3 of 23
serac
Guide

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

I think Orbi would offer better speed but I currently have Luma (very similar to eero) installed and there is no line of sight requirement and I don't think there is with eero either.

 

related post:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-placement-concerns/m-p/1134414#M100

Message 4 of 23
serac
Guide

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

forgot to mention that I do think I will return the Luma

returning due to suspected slower speed and not wanting to get locked into using luma only products long term

 

but not sure I will get the Orbi

Message 5 of 23
SW12
Tutor

orbi app

Does anyone have information as to how the IOS app will be compared to what Eero and Luma say their app provides?  There is not much information out on the app and previous Netgear apps are not customizable.  

Message 6 of 23
SylviaD
NETGEAR Employee Retired

Betreff: orbi app

Hi SW12,

 

in addition, have a look on this thread Orbi app for iOS 🙂

 

SylviaD

Message 7 of 23
SW12
Tutor

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Thank you for the info. Thats what I was afraid of. I would like to stick with Netgear but I need more individual control over devices and I don't think they are going to provide that.
Message 8 of 23
pburgess6
Aspirant

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

I need a better system to serve WiFi in my brownstone/townhouse. The signal comes in on the Parlor/Ground floor. We currently have an Airport Extreme and an Airport Time Capsule on the second floor. The third floor gets a week and inconsistent signal. I am torn between the Orbi and eero. How is Orbi a better solution in my configuration? 

Paul 

Message 9 of 23

Re: Orbi -v- Eero


@pburgess6 wrote:

I need a better system to serve WiFi in my brownstone/townhouse. The signal comes in on the Parlor/Ground floor. We currently have an Airport Extreme and an Airport Time Capsule on the second floor. The third floor gets a week and inconsistent signal. I am torn between the Orbi and eero. How is Orbi a better solution in my configuration? 

Paul 


hi paul

 

at this stage its not , as the eero uses mash and so will get that signal to the second floor , the orbi uses star topology , so even if you had a second sat it would still need to connect back to the router on the ground floor

 

however if you could move the internet connection and orbi router to the first floor and then have a orbi sat on the ground floor and second floor it would work great

 

at this stage the eero has proven to be the best of the mesh type systems according to smallnetbuilder , they are yet to test the orbi but until orbi actually goes mesh instead of star topology you can't really compare them

 

pete

Message 10 of 23

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Wonder how the just announced Google WiFi will fare against the Orbi (star topology) and mesh systems like the Eero?  Google WiFi looks to be mesh, AC1200 and 3 "puck" size devices for $299 retail.

Message 11 of 23

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

knowing google its will be cloud based and thus not what most of us want 

Message 12 of 23
SW12
Tutor

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Very much agree that Orbi will rock out the speed. I wanted to go that route but needed a more family friendly UI to track over 20 clients divices. Additionally with teens being able to set internet access schedules or just psuse it when they are acting up has been like Pavlov's dog. I have 5 Eeros due to having a an unusual house layout that is all on one floor. Plus being in Florida we use it outside. What I have found on line of sight is this. The hub and the first 2 satellite AP deliver a better result if located no more than 40' from the hub. From there you can get more flexible with it. Speed remains consistent at each AP - although it is less than what my NG X6 delivered. If NG creates a better UI then I would love to go back. But the X6 didn't have the range and the beam forming was intermittent. Not in love with the Eero - yet, but it has been reliable just as my NG R7000 and 7500 were.
Message 13 of 23
SW12
Tutor

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

 
Message 14 of 23
Pylona
Aspirant

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Hi Darren M.

 

I am interested in the inter box communications.  You say that Orbi uses a 3 channel system one of which is used for inter Orbi communication.

 

"Orbi uses tri-band mesh, with a combined speed of AC3000. This gives us a gigantic speed advantage over the other Wifi systems. We use one of the bands for a dedicated connection between the nodes in the system. (the kit we announced yesterday is two nodes, but we also allow for expansion if you need more coverage). This means that we don’t have to share time when listening for clients and other nodes in the system. Due to this, our own internal testing shows that we’re anywhere from two to ten times faster than the other wifi systems throughout a customer’s house."

 

Therefore 2 bands are used for personal device connectivity - 2.4ghz and 5ghz?  If this is correct are both of those bands (or whatever you transmit) available as separate entities to log onto at the satellite?

Do you run some sort of proprietary protocol between the Orbis?  I am not interested in the specific mechanism, just the overview.  You say that the Orbis are not line of sight dependent - thats great - but they must have to receive at least a minimum amount of signal to sync?  If the sync is on the edge what are the resync times like?  I live in a villa constricted of steel reinforced concrete and have been tearing my hair out trying t get signals where needed.  Extenders are useless as they just share out the signal and reduce overall BW avaialble to users.  This Orbi seems to hit most if not all my requirements.  Are there plans to enable wired connectivity between the devices?

Message 15 of 23
DarrenM
Sr. NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Hello Pylona

 

There is 2 bands for your devices but you can not pick which one to connect to it is 1 SSID and band steering picks the best connection for the device. As for the connection the base and satellite connect via a 5ghz back haul wifi channel so it would work like any other wifi connection where certain things can interfere with the signal. The orbi has lights on it to let you know if your satellite has good enough signal to be used when setting it up. As for the wired connection that is a request by the community right now but I have no info right now if that is coming at a later date.

 

DarrenM

Message 16 of 23
MikeSpragg
Aspirant

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Just a quick sanity check - if this uses a 5ghz signal then this is going to be subject to a fairly clear path, correct ? (as 5Ghz is more subject to interference and works much better in LoS ?)

 

So, in essence, if you put a unit next to your router (downstairs) and the satellite is upstairs *and* it can't connect - then the whole thing fails surely ? 

 

Or, if you can get a connection between the two - then the position of the satellite is still going to affect the devices on the outer edge / outer reach on those upper floors. 

 

Lastly, if you have a 3rd/4th satellite - this still needs to reach the original unit (e.g A -> B and A->C, rather than A->B->C)

 

A--(Router)---------------B (bottom of stairs)

A----------------------------------------C (top of stairs)

A----------------------------------------------------------------------------D (furthest reach, far corner of top floor)

 

In other words, the reliance is on always getting a 5Ghz signal back to Orbi A. In the crude example above - if Orbi D is located at the further reach of the house - then it's more likely than not a 5Ghz signal wouldn't reach back to A ? (how does the Orbi A display a connection if you had 3 satellites as per example above?). Seems that the idea is OK, provided the star network works and is unaffected by walls/brick etc. between floors and units. if you could connect them via Ethernet (kinda defeats the purpose) this would have been OK - but I get the feeling this would only work OK in a wooden house or dot-dab plasterboard stud walls. If D could communicate with C and C with B (ie mesh 5Ghz) then this would work great. I fear this isn't the case.... The original question was responded to (by Darren) as Mesh - but others have contributed that it's not - it's star (and your latest answer appears to confirm that as well) - can someone clarify please ...

 

Message 17 of 23

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

hi

 

no need for line of sight

 

i have my orbi router at the back of my house and the sat in the middle with a wall and kitchen inbetween and the connection is still close to max throughput wise eg 60MB/s over the backhaul link ( tested via the ethernet ports ) 

 

however placement between floors is dependent on what the construction materials of the ceiling / floor inbetween them is 

 

think of the transmission as a bubble around each device ( plus some extra with beamforming ) you just need to make sure the bubble of each device overlaps the other by about 20 - 30% 

 

correct at this stage all sats have to connect back to the router only , this may change if netgear adopt mesh topology in the future 

 

however mesh has its issues with throughput 

 

what i would do is just go with 1 x orbi router and 1 x orbi sat and see how the coverage goes , if it doesnt get you close to full house coverage the orbi may not be for you ( that is unless you can place the orbi sat in the middle of the house and sat's around it  ) 

 

you can however have to many transmissions so going out and buying 2 or 3 sat's many be counter to what you are trying to achieve 

 

pete

 

 

 

 

Message 18 of 23
MikeSpragg
Aspirant

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Thanks. Sorry, I should clarify - I didn't mean line of sight as in visual but without incumbrance of (many) walls, floors etc that absorb/distort the 5ghz signal. Definitely plan to give it a go - just a little worried the marketing hype has overtaken technical reality :-)) 

Message 19 of 23

Re: Orbi -v- Eero


@MikeSpragg wrote:

Thanks. Sorry, I should clarify - I didn't mean line of sight as in visual but without incumbrance of (many) walls, floors etc that absorb/distort the 5ghz signal. Definitely plan to give it a go - just a little worried the marketing hype has overtaken technical reality :-)) 


 

hi mike

 

for once the advertising actually equates to the actual performance as in terms of whole home coverage and throughout 

 

testing at smallnetbuilder clearly shows how good it is against other mesh based systems

 

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/33022-mesh-mashup-redux-netgear-s-orbi-chec...

 

for my case i have a house of around 4,000 sqaure feet , tyupical 4 bedroom and study single story stand alone house and the orbi router and 1 x orbi sat covers the lot and give me my 100/40M internet speed anywhere in the house on 5 gig 

 

i have tested many high end router and extenders / repeaters and non come close to what the orbi achieves wifi coverage and performance wise 

 

pete

Message 20 of 23
MikeSpragg
Aspirant

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Thanks Pete - very encouraging results - both yours and smallnetbuilder. Can't wait til they are released in UK now !!

Message 21 of 23
englemt
Aspirant

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

I am considering buying this for my father.  He has a garage that is about 120 feet away from his house.  I can put both Orbi's in a window and they will have line of sight.  Do you have any guidance on this type of distance and going through standard single pane glass? 

 

Thanks!

Message 22 of 23
DarrenM
Sr. NETGEAR Moderator

Re: Orbi -v- Eero

Hello englemt

 

Orbi does not need line of sight so going through the glass should be fine but I can not tell you if enough wifi signal will reach the edge of the garage or not does your current wifi reach to the edge of the garage?

 

DarrenM

Message 23 of 23
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