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Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

jimbojames79
Apprentice

Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Hi I am getting more and more hassle from my family about how slow the WiFi is. I have 200mb fibre and a RB30 kit. Static devices ( desktops, Sonos, virgin boxes and TVs are all fine and rock solid. Anything that moves (a variety of iOS and Android phones and tablets) is awful even though the device says it has a strong signal. The router and satalitte are about 30' apart through 2 solid walls.

Any suggestions??
Message 1 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Current setup:

20/40mhz co existence : off
Wmm : on
Beam forming : on
MU-MIMO : on
Fast roaming : on

Messing around with these so far has really changed anything as far as I can tell but am happy to be proven wrong

Thanks

Message 2 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

If your satellite has a poor backhaul connection to the router, you will have this issue.  Two solid walls between could be attenuating the signal too much, especially if the walls are stone or concrete.  Try moving the satellite closer to the router or moving things so there are fewer or no walls between, at least temporarily, and see if that improves the speed.  Then you can move them apart in steps and see how far you can go and still get adequate performance.

Message 3 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Hi thanks for getting back to me. It says it's backhaul status is good. Additionally both my desktop and tv run off the satalite and I get full speed on my desktop when I run speedtest.and my TV streams 4k no problems.

Issue seems to be limited to iOS and Android devices.
Message 4 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Interesting.  Sounds like the backhaul is OK then.

Are your desktop and TV wired to the satellite?

Do you have any WiFi device that performs properly when connected to the satellite or router?

Do you have any of your Sonos devices wired to your LAN?

Are you using any Sonos speakers in surround sound mode?

Message 5 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

Everything is wireless except my NAS.

 

2x Desktop 5g OK

3x Laptop 2.4g OK

3 x Amazon Fire Stick 5g OK

1 x Chromecast 5g OK

3 x Sonos 2.4g OK - Sonos not in stereo pairs

2 x TV 5g OK

2 xVirgin V6 5g OK

1 x Xbox 5g OK

1 x Nintendo Switch 5g Ok

1 x Wii u 2.4g OK

4 x iOS phones Not Ok

1 x android tablet OK

2 x android phones not OK

 

So basically if you hold it in your hand its rubbish.

Message 6 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

OK.  Very strange.  I'm afraid I don't have much to suggest.

 

The usual iOS remedy is to forget the WiFi network and add it back.

 

What is the issue exactly?  Is it slow throughput on a speedtest, or is it slow loading of webpages?

 

If it's slow webpage loading I would try changing your DNS server to Google's public servers.  You can do it directly on your iOS devices under the information section for your Orbi WiFi connection. Google's DNS servers are: 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4.

 

Message 7 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

A couple of examples.

 

Speedtest cut out just after starting, saying there's no connection. Does this a coule of times then works.

Whatsapp photos don't download

Facebook freezes

Youtube finds the thing you want but then doesn't load it.

 

One of my initial thought swas that the router and satelitte were too close together and it couldn't decide which one to join to?

 

I will try changing the DNS.

 

 

Message 8 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Yes, flipping between APs can cause issues.  When AP signals overlap, you want the farther one to be no stronger than about -70 dB RSSI or your device could swap back and forth. If your signals are overlapping more than that, I would try lowering the Orbi transmit power to something like 25% on 2.4GHz and 50% on 5 GHz. Or maybe 50% and 75%.

 

Also, I would try disabling Fast Roaming on Orbi.

 

Lastly, try disabling WiFi assist on iOS under settings, Cellular.  This will prevent the phone from switching between cell and WiFI.

Message 9 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Ok thanks I will try that overnight. With a house of teenagers I pretty much have to set a maintainance window in advance! If I dial down those values, will that affect the strength of the backhaul channel?
Message 10 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

No, I don't believe changing the client radio power will affect the backhaul.  The backhaul uses a separate dedicated radio.

Message 11 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Note that there is a significant clue here into what's happening.  You said only your mobile devices have issues, whereas your laptops, desktops, etc. work fine.  Note that laptops, desktops, etc. will not roam from AP to AP.  They stick with an AP until the signal becomes unusable, then they look for another.  iPhones, etc. roam more agressively, and will switch between APs much more readily.  So, the fact that your mobile devices are the only ones having issues, points to an issue with roaming behavior.  The steps I posted above (except maybe DNS) all should help with a roaming issue. 

Message 12 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Hi I have turned on/off the values you said and dialed down the transmit values with seemingly mixed success. Andriod phones are happier as is one iOS. Will keep monitoring.

Is it possible to dial down the satellite and not the router or vice versa? The middle of the house/ place where the sofas are is where both signal levels are pretty much the same....

Message 13 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Sounds like some progress and some good insight into what's causing the problem.

 

Unfortunately, you cannot adjust the power levels of the router and satellites indepenedently.  This is a serious weakness of Orbi, in my opinion.  You should be able to adjust the power for each unit and for each band independently.

 

What you can do is relocate the satellite and/or router, so the power level is stronger or weaker in the area you frequent most.  Having them equal is probably the worst scenario.  Moving the units to provide a stronger signal contrast might solve the issue for you. I would focus on the 5 GHz power, as most modern devices will use that, unless the signal is very weak.

 

I have 20/40 coexistence ON and fast roaming OFF in my house.  The coexistence setting is irrelevant because I have nothing else on 2.4 so Orbi always runs at 40 MHz.  Where I usually sit, my closest satellite is showing -35 dB and the router and outdoor satellite are showing about -65 each (on 5 GHz.)

Message 14 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Ok so now both my internal and external streaming quality is going down the toilet. Is that due to changes I have made. I have rebooted orbi, NAS and affected TVs with no impact.
Message 15 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Hard to say without knowing what you changed, whether you moved things, and what the current settings are.

 

When you last posted, your problem seemed to be that the iPhones were thrashing back and forth between the router and satellite, due to overlapping strong signals from each of the Orbi devices.  I don't know where you are at now, whether you disabled fast roaming, or moved the devices to make one Orbi signal stronger than the other.

 

But, if too frequent roaming is still the issue, you should be able to solve it by adding a satellite close to where you are having the issue.  That way your devices will always have a strong signal to hold onto.

Message 16 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

I have move the satellite further away and dropped the signal strength to 75% on 5ghz and 2.4ghz.

Enable 20/40 is on
WMM is on.
Daisy chain is off.
Beamforming is on
MU-MIMO is off
Fast roaming is on


Message 17 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Based on the symptoms you described, I would try it with fast roaming off. You want your devices to stick to one AP since those that already do that were working. I would also download Apple’s Airport Utility for the iOS devices and do a WiFi scan. Look at the RSSIs your phone is seeing for the different Orbi units. You will get a report by MAC address. You want the nearest Orbi to show -60 or way better and the other Orbis to be below -70. 

Message 18 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Made no difference. Watching what should be 4k Dolby Vision on Netflix. Bouncing from 480-1080 all the time.
Message 19 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Assuming your issues are on wireles devices... If two or more Orbi WiFi signals are usable and about equal where your devices are, then fast roaming may not make a difference.

 

You need to take a quantitative look at the signal levels received by your device, using the Airport Utility or a WiFi scanning application on a desktop, to see what's going on.  Then decide where to go from there.

 

It's standard industry practice to design wifi cells so that the signals do not overlap higher than -65 or -70 dB. This is necessary for proper roaming operation.  This is done by AP placement and/or by transmit power level adjustments.

Message 20 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

Yeah I know. Now wondering if I can reposition my router and get rid of satellite altogether.

The house is basically square. I have put the router and satellite in diagonally opposite corners so lets say bottom left and top right.

If you divide the square into 4 smaller squares, the TV is at the top right corner of the top left square. Therefore the TV is more or less equidistant ffrom the devices.

I will move the router to where the TV is and get rid of the satellite. Just hope the router has a enough power to reach my office which is a room built into the garage in the bottom right square.

Cheers
Message 21 of 23
st_shaw
Master

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

 

You might have better luck with the router and satellite more towards the center of the two squares.  If they are in the corners, then 3/4 of their radiation pattern is directed outside. Having them closer would also improve the backhaul connectivity.

 

In any case, if you move the router to the TV, then you should be able to put the satellite down close to the office. Then devices in the office should see a stronger signal from the satellite.

 

Good luck.  I hope you can get it sorted out.

Message 22 of 23
jimbojames79
Apprentice

Re: Poor WiFi performance on mobile devices orbi rb30

So, removing the satelitte and moving the router as close to the middle of the house as possible has fixed my streaming issues and improved connections with all but 1 mobile devices* significantly. Only problem now is my office and one bedroom are right on the edge of 2.4ghz range and no 5ghz there. 

 

I think I would probably be OK if I could adjust the power of the Router and Satelitte radios independently, but I can't see that happening. I expect I will dust off my powerline adapters at the weekend to improve network availability in the office and bedroom. Kind of defeats the point of Orbi though doesn't it!!

 

*The outstanding mobile device is a iPhone 8 Plus which is wierd as I have another 8 plus and it is OK. I have observed that iPhones in general aren't as happy as android devices. I ran speedtest from the app on both ihpnes and my Pixel 2 xl in exactly the same place at the same time several times and the Pixel generally had 10x speed of the iPhones.

 

 

Message 23 of 23
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