RBK20 Troubleshooting internet slowness / QOS

[Rusty27]

How is everyone dealing with troubleshooting devices that are utilizing all your internet bandwidth?   New Orbi customer and I'm very happy with LAN connection speeds and performance but where I'm located I'm limited on internet connection speeds.   That said, with 50+/- devices on my network, not having any visibility or QOS with Orbi seems mind blowing?    How is everyone else dealing with these limitations?   I was hoping the built in intelegence would make living without these features worth the mesh WiFi and coverage.   

[FURRYe38]

What Firmware is currently loaded?
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?
What ISP speeds do you pay for UP and Down? 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

QoS is mostly behind the scenes and is automatic. 

I have about 30 devices  on my system. A few streamers and two gamers...no issues. 

---

@Rusty27 wrote:

How is everyone dealing with troubleshooting devices that are utilizing all your internet bandwidth?   New Orbi customer and I'm very happy with LAN connection speeds and performance but where I'm located I'm limited on internet connection speeds.   That said, with 50+/- devices on my network, not having any visibility or QOS with Orbi seems mind blowing?    How is everyone else dealing with these limitations?   I was hoping the built in intelegence would make living without these features worth the mesh WiFi and coverage.   

---

[Rusty27]

I'm really only concerned with two laptops and they are hardwired and not using wireless.   Everything else on my network, I'm not as concerned with.   Regular QOS seems to be working as designed.   

What Firmware is currently loaded?   v. 2.3.5.26
What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too?   RBK23 kit,   RBR20 Router w/ 2 satelites.   
What ISP speeds do you pay for UP and Down?  DSL 2 mbs up / 24 mbs down (best I can buy).   

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?  2000 sq ft but in this case, I'm hardwired where I need QOS
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.   

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?   Using Auto and having no issues on wifi.   No neighbors in 200+ yards of me.   

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings.    Thanks.  I'll try this.   

Try disabling the following and see:
Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).   

Thanks.  I'll try these as well.   

QoS is mostly behind the scenes and is automatic.   Agree but I'm also use to have options to give specific devices higher priority.   I'm also coming from a DD-WRT.    Found there is a hidden QOS page in Orbi.   http://192.168.1.1/QOS_rule.htm   Anyone been able to use it?  Appear it is not configurable.   

[FURRYe38]

What is the Mfr and model# of the ISP modem the NG router is connected too? This would be the modem that you get from your ISP, not the Orbi system. 

You can't configure any hidden menus. 

What seems to be the problem with these two laptops when wire connected to the Orbi RBR? 

[Rusty27]

Yeah.  I have a Windstream T3200 ADSL modem.    I've looked for QOS options on it but not found anything.   

Good to know about the hidden menus.

My issue is I work from home and when kids are home streaming and playing on their devices, it inteferres with my system. Normally all works fine.   Like I said in other post, I'm coming from DD-WRT, which is highly customizable and has QOS options.   If I'm not able to do any QOS or priortization with Orbi, my two options right now is to 1) put Orbi in bridge mode and put my old LinkSys DD-WRT router back in place or 2) return Orbi system and find another solution Nighthawk, etc.....

[FURRYe38]

Is the ISP modem bridged? 

You may try the Prior router back on line and set the Orbi for AP mode and see. 

[Rusty27]

ISP modem is not in bridge mode.  Not sure there is a option on this particular modem.   Or at least it isn't a obvious option.

Thought about trying Orbi in AP mode but it really defeats my goal of simplifying my setup.    😞

[FURRYe38]

Modem Combo Units:
This would be a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

[Rusty27]

I get why it is preferred to use bridge mode for optimal setup but I'm not understanding how this will help my overall issues.

1) If I have a device or two on my network hogging up the internet bandwidth, how do I give another device more priority?   

2) How do I even determine, what that device or two that is hogging up the internet bandwidth?  

Appears there are no solution with Orbi, for either other than just getting more internet bandwidth (not a option for me unfortunetly) or going with another solution.   

[FURRYe38]

Would need to see if AP mode would help resolve this or not. 

The orbi system doesn't support bridge mode. Bridge and AP mode are two separate operations. 

Does your ISP modem offer any more kind of granular QoS menu features by chance? 

What is the mfr and model# of the host router you used before the Orbi? 

You would need to turn one device at a time to see which one maybe the culprit. 

[CrimpOn]

---

@FURRYe38 wrote:

You can't configure any hidden menus. 

---

Indeed.  A bit nasty of Netgear to expose a web page that clearly offers the ability to "Add" a new QOS rule, but then not accept one.  Especially since one of the rule types is for LAN ports 1, 2, 3.  Wonder what their reasoning was to allow "debug.htm" to make changes to the Orbi, but not QOS_rule.htm.

[CrimpOn]

Has my memory failed (again), or was there once a "QOS" menu entry on the Orbi web interface?

[Rusty27]

Few things:

1) Although Bridge mode on my ISP modem may help things, it has been running this way for a very long time.  I have wifi disabled and basically use to just route internet traffic.  That said, I'm going to work with ISP to see if I can get bridge mode setup.  

2) Didn't have QOS issue when running Linksys with DD-WRT router OS once I enabled and setup my laptop to have priority on my network.

3) Turning off and on 40 devices to find culprit is not a solution for me.   Also, I know what the issue is.  It is iPads and Roku devices eating up the bandwidth.   Which would be easily solved with basic QOS rules. 

4) Netgear could easily solve this with basic features in Orbi.   Netgear Nighthawk routers have some of these features.  Maybe that is the route I need to look at.   

[FURRYe38]

Orbi's UI takes from a long standing UI template that mostly is a all around UI fitment for there routers. So depending upon each router model and what NG desides to implement for features for each router model, NG just hids some of the features that other router models won't support. So QoS that is hidden on Orbi maybe seen on other model routers that do support it. 

---

@CrimpOn wrote:

Has my memory failed (again), or was there once a "QOS" menu entry on the Orbi web interface?

---

[FURRYe38]

Your other consideration is that your limited by your ISP speed as well. Others having a similar kind of network device capacity also have higher ISP speeds and bandwith as well. It's possible that your ISP speeds maybe a bit too low for the Orbi to handle and manage with all the devices that you have connected and doing streaming and such while all online together. The ISP speeds maybe a bottle neck. We understand that this is what you can get from your ISP. 

I would try the WRT router back in place and configure the Orbi system for AP mode and see if these problems still appear or not. 

[Rusty27]

I 100% understand and would agree that in this situation more bandwidth would fix my issue.   But i know for a FACT that with QOS it is managable.   I just don't understand how these companies can continue to remove basic features like QOS while asking for $200+ for high end routers?   

Putting WRT back in place again may fix my issue but having 3 devices (Modem, Router, and Orbi), defeats the purpose of buying another solution.  It also remove some of the remote managability that Orbi has.   

[FURRYe38]

Seen this over the last several years, router mfrs are leaning towards a more simplified UI rather then having a more granular advanced UI. Mfrs have picked up on the avg home user that just wants a simple router to setup and connect and get online. Less hassle of any router management features the better for those average home users. 

You can still manage Orbi in AP via it's Orbi app. Thought less features are available while in AP mode. 

[Rusty27]

Which I don't get.  The average user never enabled these features anyway.  Why take them away from your users that needs these features?   And what makes it even worse, is they are charging more for less.   Also, in my research, they don't even offer QOS on the Orbi Business line.   Totally mind blowing!

[FURRYe38]

Been a long time debate on weather QoS is needed at higher ISP speeds, 200Mbps and up wards. Most business have high speed internet as well. Business may not have a need for QoS as depending upon there requirements and environment, may have not have a need. I presume the Orbi pro is tuned for small business environment as well. Nothing large. 

[Rusty27]

I've been in IT for over 20 years and QOS has always been needed.  Weather it is to give certain traffic priority or to prevent a rogue system from creating a DOS Attack.   In a home network, it may be argued that it isn't needed when you have a 100mb plus connection but in a business where 1 rogue system could take down your whole business, that is not acceptable.   Also, even in small business, business class internet services are not cheap.   I've looked into getting a 20x20 business class internet circuit at my house and you are still looking at $300 plus a month.   So saying "Hey just get a faster connection", which jumping up to a 50x50, could double or triple the cost.   Are there better options in other places, yes but not all circuits and connections are $100 for 1GB up and down like you see advisted all over the place.   So yeah, although you can get big connections cheap, it shouldn't be assumed by a company like Netgear that it is common.   Funny how their Business Line Orbi line has no QOS but their NightHawk systems have some QOS.  Guess that should tell me where the priority of the company is.   

[FURRYe38]

All good points. It is what it is. If the Orbi systems are working for your needs, you may need to find a different product that will. 

[angelah100]

Did you ever figure out a solution?  We just moved into a large house and I dropped a bundle on Orbi RBK50, a router plus 3 satellites.  Every time somone starts streaming netflix or I'm uploading a video, it eats up the bandwidth and everyone else is shut down. My old Asus router had the abilitiy to prioritize devices and I just can't believe this expensive Orbi  system doesn't have the same ability.