Reply

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

MartinZo
Luminary

RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Configuration:
1. Vodafone Cable Modem in the basement with 1GBit/s broadband performance from provider.
2. RBR50 Orbi Baseststion in 1st floor but connected to Vodafone cable modem via LAN cable.
3. RBS50 Two Satellites positioned in 1st floor, each of them around 25ft (8m) away from the base station and connected to base station via Wifi.
4. The firmware version of the Orbi System was updated to the latest one V2.5.2.4.

Settings:
1. Vodafone Cable Modem is set to Router mode,

2. RBR50 Orbi base station is set to bridge mode and two RBS50 satellites connected via WIFi. No special settings adjustments were made, the settings thus are representing the standard settings that were made automatically during my OrbRBK53 initial system setup.

3.Vodafone Cable modem in basement has also WIFi switched on but with its own WIFi name let‘s call it SSID1 here). The WiFi provides wifi connectivity for the rooms in the basement only and cannot be found or chosen in the first floor by any device (ceilings are obviously thick enough). As said above the Orbi System base station is also connected to the cable modem via LAN port and with around 20 ft (6m) long LAN cable.

4. The Orbi RBR50 and two RBS50 Satellites are connected via WIFI (own separate SSID, let‘s call it SSID2 here).
5. About 20 decices are connected to the system, mostly apple but also laptops,
Macs and Xboxes.
5 devices are connected to vodafone wifi SSID1 in the basement, the rest to the orbi Wifi in the 1st floor and rest of the house.

Problem:
The system was purchased in February 2020, after the described setup everything worked pretty fine and stable for months.

For a few weeks now I keep getting reboots of the Orbi system, up to two or three times a day.
I then takes 2 or 3 tries for the system to reboot, as I can see by the pink coloured ring of the satellites turning blue, then pink again, then blue and then it goes off and runs fine for a day or so until the next reboot occurs..

Please help! I hate these reboots and they are bugging us, why is that happening all of a sudden. We didn‘t change any of the settings etc.

I also want to stick to having separate SSID1 WIFi from the cable modem in the basement since it does not interfere with the first floor and I cannot provide Wifi (SSID2) being good enough from the first floor through the Orbi System only ( walls too thick).
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 1 of 44

Accepted Solutions
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Good to hear. Make sure you do a backup configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed. 

 

Please mark you thread as solved so others will know.

 

Enjoy. Smiley Wink

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

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Message 44 of 44

All Replies
olympos1625
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Hi MartinZo,

 

Good day!

 

Welcome to NETGEAR Community!
 

First of all, we do apologize for the inconvenience of not getting back to you immediately due to the backlog in the system. Are you still experiencing the rebooting? Did update the firmware of the Orbi?
 

Please do not hesitate to let me know if you need further assistance. 



 

Regards,

Oliver

Community Team

Message 2 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Hi Oliver,
Thank you for your reply.

Yes the issue still occurs 1-2 times day. I have gone through my house and been looking for flaws in the electric system, timer settings, e.g. heating systems impact when started (e.g. power peaks leading to inconsistent power and forcing the wifi system to restart) but couldn’t find any significant signs.I have been in contact with the cable provider vodafone and had them measure the lines and cable router from their side remotely. Everything seems stable there. Nevertheless they‘ve sent me a new coaxial cable and new cable router (shipping currently), I will be watching the situation again then.
The orbi system was updated to the newest firmware last week V2.7.2.104 .
Model: CATRBR50-100NAS|Orbi Premium CAT5e Flat Ethernet Cable
Message 3 of 44
olympos1625
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Hi MartinZo,

 

Thank you for your response. We will wait for the new modem ten since it's already being shipped. Don't do anything for now. We will isolate properly the problem and see what really caused this issue to happen in the first place without any changes on the Orbi side. Did you change any settings on the router or use any features on the Orbi system recently? Please DM us the serial number of the Orbi so we can check as well for the warranty purpose.

 

Please do not hesitate to let me know if you need further assistance. 



 

Regards,

Oliver

Community Team

 

 

Message 4 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

I have installed the new coaxial cable, not sure if they will really send a new cable modem. Will monitor closely wht happens. Attached the serial number of my router.
Message 5 of 44
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

The wifi onthe ISP modem should be turned OFF or disabled fully. 

 

What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.

 

Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

 

One User Experience/Configuration:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Most-Stable-Orbi-Configuration/m-p/1941087/highlight/true#M970...


You can find other speed diagnosis steps in the community faq: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/Community-FAQ-My-Orbi-speeds-are-slow-inconsistent-and-don-...

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 6 of 44
vajim
Master

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting


@FURRYe38 

 

 

was that a moderator who all ready answered this post?

Message 7 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

@Furry:
for your hints, haven‘t tried them yet. Really, really disappointed, have 4 kids and myself at home for work and homeschooling due to corona, cannot bear an unstable connection anymore...fed up with losing internet in the middle of business calls.
When it works, it works great and is definitely fast as hell, but stability is not as I would expect from a 500€ product...

Cannot get rid of the cable modem from the ISP sonce it delivers wifi for the basement, orbi won‘t reach this area completely.

Uodate: Orbi just rebooted again, strange enough it is always about the same time of the day 21:10-21:15 when it starts rebooting (apart from other rabdom reboots during the day, e.g 12:14 today
also) Have encountered the same evening reboot for weeks..not every evening though but when it happens always around the same time.
Looked around the house for power peaks, timers etc, changed power outlet to outlets more than 50 feet away, still rebooting....so obviously not a ‚radiation‘ or power peak issue.
The next house is more thans 80feet away, thus not any wifi inteference issue...and that would only prevent wifi frombeing performant not cause a total reboot.
Will try your hints but have been there already...weeks ago...so unlikely it will help.
Btw my satellites are about 38 and 50ft away from the AP RBR50

Please help, can I swap my faulty HW RBR50 for a new one or get any clue to make this thing stable!!
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 8 of 44
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

This will sound really "off the wall"........

 

Can you please open the Orbi web interface, Advanced Tab home page, click on the blue box "Connection Status" and record:

  • The least that was obtained, and
  • When the lease will expire.

As an example, Spectrum Cable gives my Orbi a one day lease (actually 84,600 seconds) and my Orbi renews the lease when it is half expired (every 12 hours).

 

Look in the Orbi log and find the bottom entry. (Advanced Tab, Administration, Logs, and scroll down to the bottom.)

Does the bottom line say "[Initialized, firmware version...]"

 

I am not confident that it is possible to distinguish from the router "Ring Light" between the router rebooting and the router losing and restoring the internet link.

I love my Orbi.
Message 9 of 44
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Having both wifi radios running on the ISP modem and the Orbi can cause problems. Reason for having you disable wifi on the modem to check this. 

 

Is Armor or Circle enabled? 

 

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update?

 

 


@MartinZo wrote:
@Furry:
for your hints, haven‘t tried them yet. Really, really disappointed, have 4 kids and myself at home for work and homeschooling due to corona, cannot bear an unstable connection anymore...fed up with losing internet in the middle of business calls.
When it works, it works great and is definitely fast as hell, but stability is not as I would expect from a 500€ product...

Cannot get rid of the cable modem from the ISP sonce it delivers wifi for the basement, orbi won‘t reach this area completely.

Uodate: Orbi just rebooted again, strange enough it is always about the same time of the day 21:10-21:15 when it starts rebooting (apart from other rabdom reboots during the day, e.g 12:14 today
also) Have encountered the same evening reboot for weeks..not every evening though but when it happens always around the same time.
Looked around the house for power peaks, timers etc, changed power outlet to outlets more than 50 feet away, still rebooting....so obviously not a ‚radiation‘ or power peak issue.
The next house is more thans 80feet away, thus not any wifi inteference issue...and that would only prevent wifi frombeing performant not cause a total reboot.
Will try your hints but have been there already...weeks ago...so unlikely it will help.
Btw my satellites are about 38 and 50ft away from the AP RBR50

Please help, can I swap my faulty HW RBR50 for a new one or get any clue to make this thing stable!!

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 10 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Thank you for your advice!

It says Lease obtained: 7d 0h 0min
Lease expires: 6d 9h 42min
It is 11:34 am now here.
This means the dhcp lease was renewed 14h and 18mins ago, which would exactly represent the time when the orbi system had rebooted last night right around the time frame I mentioned earlier (21:12 cut off, about 5mins later rebooting procedure accomplished and online again.)

So what does that mean for me, the ISP cable modem and orbi system now?

Thanks for any further help, still desperate...!!
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 11 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

To your second question:

The log file bottom line says:
[initializes firmware version V2.7.2.104] Tuesday, February 9 2021 17:50:35

Further up in the log file it also shows the disconnection last night at [Internet Disconnected] Feb 11tj 21:11:47 and back on 21:15:29.
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 12 of 44
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Having both wifi radios running on the ISP modem and the Orbi can cause problems. Reason for having you disable wifi on the modem to check this. 

 

Is Armor or Circle enabled? 

 

Has a factory reset and setup from scratch been performed since last FW update?

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 13 of 44
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting


@MartinZo wrote:
To your second question:
The log file bottom line says:
[initializes firmware version V2.7.2.104] Tuesday, February 9 2021 17:50:35
Further up in the log file it also shows the disconnection last night at [Internet Disconnected] Feb 11tj 21:11:47 and back on 21:15:29.

This indicates to me that technically the Orbi is not rebooting. It lost the internet connection and had to reestablish the connection. This puts the blame directly on the ISP.  With a DHCP lease time of 7 days (which is unusual, but valid {legal DHCP lease is from 1 second to 135 years}), there should be no DHCP activity for 3.5 days, at which time the Orbi should begin asking to renew the lease.  It might be worth making a copy of the Orbi log file to show the ISP.  i.e.:

 

On Feb 9, the Orbi powered up.

On Feb 11, the Orbi reported "Internet Disconnected" and reconnected.

On ...etc. etc.

 

If this happens several times a day, and the Orbi never "Initialized" again, then there is an issue with the cable feed.  Maybe a broken wire that flexes in the wind?

I love my Orbi.
Message 14 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Cheers!
I looked into the ISP modem settings. The DHCP lease time/frequency cannot be adjusted from my side to be more frequent than every 7d.
I have been in contact with the ISP privider again (which is vodafone) and they have measured the lines again (automated ticket process there with sms replies etc)
Nothing obvious. We have (under)ground wires here only, no wires or wire posts above the surface (Germany).
Will watch the situation closely but cannot turn off the WIFI from the ISP as mentioned in other suggestions. This would cut off my son‘s internet since he‘s living in the basement seperated by concrete ceiling from the rest of the house (have tried before) . Only way around, buy another Orbi system RBK53 system or add an addiotional satellite to the basement. Both ridiculously expensive here (250€+ for
one satellite extra).
Will let you know what if somrthing new happens the next few days. Disappointed all the way but thank you very much for your help!
Btw, I measured internet speeds over and over again the last few days. I have a 1GigaB/s lcontract and if ecerythings up and running I may reach up to 935 Mbit/s downstream and 50Mbit/s upload, really amazing taking into account that one of the satellites is 50ft away...
A shame that I cannot add stability to this it seems...


Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 15 of 44
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Does the Orbi log continue to show those "Internet Disconnected" messages that correspond to times the ring light turned magenta?

You are correct that the DHCP server defines the lease time. If Vodaphone sets it for 7 days, that's what it is.

(Internally, on the LAN side, the default DHCP lease from Orbi is 1 day (86,400 seconds.)

 

I agree there is no reason to turn off the Vodaphone WiFi.

 

Can you describe the ethernet link between the Vodaphone and Orbi?  Is it one cable?  cable within the walls terminated on RJ45 jacks plus two patch cables?  Is there a switch involved somewhere?

I love my Orbi.
Message 16 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Hi, thanks for the immedite reply.

I haven‘t had any disconnections since the last one I described, so up and running for the last 1,75 days. That‘s happened before though, a couple of stable days..in a row. Let‘s see what the next 21:10-21:15 time frane brings... 🙂
Here‘s what I have done since vodafone‘s line check. Moved the power plug to one about 30 feet away with an extension cord, set the 2.4GHZ channels of the ISP to 6 and the Orbi one to 11 (had done that as one of the very first steps in the past already and returned to auto afterwards) , checked all connected devices for their correct DHCP settings (I don‘t have static IP set up though, see no reason for that). The Orbi is in bridge mide, the one only dhcp server is the ISP modem.
Concerning your question: yes the network cable coming from the ISP modem LAN jack is connected via a LAN connector ‚jack’ and from there it goes through and up the wall to a RJ45 wall outlet (plug) in the ground floor where the Orbi Router stands (approx. 40ft cable length I would guess).
I left the cable out for a couple of days and substituted it by a 30ft patch cable directly from the LAN Jack of the ISP router to my Orbi Router.
Still, there was no difference as the internet connection losses (as you described them rather than reboots) were still happening - so no defective wall cable, LAN connector or wiring issue... I‘m afraid.
Thanks again!
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 17 of 44
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

 

I would try option #3 as see if the problem continues or not...

 


@MartinZo wrote:
@Furry:
for your hints, haven‘t tried them yet. Really, really disappointed, have 4 kids and myself at home for work and homeschooling due to corona, cannot bear an unstable connection anymore...fed up with losing internet in the middle of business calls.
When it works, it works great and is definitely fast as hell, but stability is not as I would expect from a 500€ product...

Cannot get rid of the cable modem from the ISP sonce it delivers wifi for the basement, orbi won‘t reach this area completely.

Uodate: Orbi just rebooted again, strange enough it is always about the same time of the day 21:10-21:15 when it starts rebooting (apart from other rabdom reboots during the day, e.g 12:14 today
also) Have encountered the same evening reboot for weeks..not every evening though but when it happens always around the same time.
Looked around the house for power peaks, timers etc, changed power outlet to outlets more than 50 feet away, still rebooting....so obviously not a ‚radiation‘ or power peak issue.
The next house is more thans 80feet away, thus not any wifi inteference issue...and that would only prevent wifi frombeing performant not cause a total reboot.
Will try your hints but have been there already...weeks ago...so unlikely it will help.
Btw my satellites are about 38 and 50ft away from the AP RBR50

Please help, can I swap my faulty HW RBR50 for a new one or get any clue to make this thing stable!!

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 18 of 44
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting


@MartinZo wrote:
The Orbi is in bridge mode, the one only dhcp server is the ISP modem.

I believe that (technically speaking) Orbi's two modes are "router" and "access point".

 

There may be other possibilities for diagnosis.  The Vodaphone DHCP server is giving out 7 day leases and the new lease match exactly with (a) the appearance of the Orbi Ring Light, and (b) entry in the Orbi log "Internet Disconnected".

 

  • Does the son have any devices that will report when they got IP assignments via DHCP?
    A Windows computer, for example, has a DOS command ipconfig /all which will show when it received a lease and when the lease expires.  If his devices lose internet and get new leases at the same time as the Orbi, that is another indication that it's not the Orbi.
    (It's the Vodaphone.)
  • Does the Vodaphone have a log similar to the Orbi's?
    That might indicate "something happened".
  • In the past, I have set up a program to "ping" an internet resource, such as Google DNS (8.8.8.8) say every 30 seconds or so.
    Does the son have something that could do this?  I used EMCO ping monitor (free) to determine when my Powerline adapter would go off-line.  If his access to the internet fails when the Orbi disconnects, more evidence it's not the Orbi.

 

I love my Orbi.
Message 19 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Thank you, will try the ISP log search when it occurs again.
Curently no draw backs, waiting for the next connection loss...
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 20 of 44
olympos1625
NETGEAR Moderator

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Hi MartinZo,

 

Good day!

 

Please keep us posted.

 

Regards,

Oliver

Community Team

 

 

Message 21 of 44
vajim
Master

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting


@FURRYe38 

 

a friend of yours:

 

@olympos1625 

Message 22 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Hi everybody,

 

after 6 very stable days the internet kicked out around 18:12 this evening again. Instantly looked into the orbi router log after the connection had been re-established and it showed "lost internet connection' around that time. 

And I also saw that the internet connection had gone wrong around 00:15 last night, which I hadn't recognized of course. Definitely not a lot of internet traffic or load in our house during that time of a day. 

Thus it really seems that the problem is on the ISP modem side. However a loss of connection every 6 days would not bother me too much. 

Cannot see any logs on the ISP router side I'm afraid, it just didn't show any issues at all around that time...

 

I will closely monitor the situation and let you know. I will stick to the current settings. 

Anybody suggest taking other measures?

Cheers

Martin

Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 23 of 44
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

Were you able to test the RBR50 in AP mode? 


@MartinZo wrote:

Hi everybody,

 

after 6 very stable days the internet kicked out around 18:12 this evening again. Instantly looked into the orbi router log after the connection had been re-established and it showed "lost internet connection' around that time. 

And I also saw that the internet connection had gone wrong around 00:15 last night, which I hadn't recognized of course. Definitely not a lot of internet traffic or load in our house during that time of a day. 

Thus it really seems that the problem is on the ISP modem side. However a loss of connection every 6 days would not bother me too much. 

Cannot see any logs on the ISP router side I'm afraid, it just didn't show any issues at all around that time...

 

I will closely monitor the situation and let you know. I will stick to the current settings. 

Anybody suggest taking other measures?

Cheers

Martin


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM1200 Modem |  Wifi Router Orbi RBK853 (Router Mode), Wired Backhaul and RBK752 | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700

Message 24 of 44
MartinZo
Luminary

Re: RBK53 - Often Rebooting

My RBR50 ‚Router‘ has always been in AP mode ever since I installed it.
The ISP cable modem is the only Router in the network, my RBR is attsched via ethernet cable LAN
Both however have WIFI with separate SSIDs due to the massive concrete ceilings between the floors and WIFI needed in both floors.
Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 25 of 44
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