×

Introducing the Orbi 970 Series Mesh System with WiFi 7(BE) technology. For more information visit the NETGEAR Press Room.

Orbi WiFi 7 RBE973
Reply

RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

mpsamuels
Aspirant

RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

I've had my Orbi setup for about 10 months and, with exception of it being a nightmare to setup (it doesn't play well with Sonos), it's worked fairly reliably. Over the first 8-9 months It needed a reboot or two and I can forgive that as, although frustrating, it's no different to most other consumer grade products.

 

However, over the last month I've started noticing that my Orbi Router stops routing traffic to one of my Orbi Satellites correctly despite the admin UI showing the satellite is connected with a good reception.

 

My setup - I have my RBR50 wired to a Virgin Media Superhub and two RBS50s (I'll call them RBS50A and RBS50B) scattered around the same floor in an almost triangle layout where each side of the triangle is aprox 10m but with walls intersecting. I'm using wireless backhaul and the status on both satellites is always listed as 5g type with a 'good' status. I have DHCP and DNS setup on a server that's connected by ethernet to RBS50A and DHCP setup on the RBR50 that only has a 2 IP address scope with each of those IPs reserved for the two RBS50s. I have the same reservations setup on my server so regardless of which DHCP service responds to the request for an address first, the RBS50s will always have the same IP address and there will never be an IP conflict. I have daisy chaining topology disabled.

 

Problem - on an increasingly frequent basis over the last month the RBR50 and RBS50B stop routing traffic that is destined for any devices attached to RBS50A and thus DHCP for my client devices that connect to either RBR50 or RBS50B stops working as does DNS. Strangely, any devices connected to RBS50A continue to work as normal and still have a WAN connection that goes out via RBR50 whether they connect by wireless or with ethernet. Also if a WiFi device connects to RBS50A first then moves around the house and jumps it's connection to RBR50 or RBS50B it also continues to work. Rebooting RBS50A appears to resolve the problem temporarily but this is starting to be necessary almost every other day which is beginning to make me think there's something wrong with either the router or satellite.

 

Before I 1) reset the Orbi config to factory defaults and configure it again just to ensure there isn't any config corruption 2) return it as faulty under warranty, has anyone come across anything similar before and have any known solutions or troubleshooting tips?

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 12
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

What Firmware version is currently loaded?


What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

Your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

 

Is the Orbi system operating in Router or AP mode?

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite


Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

 

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

 

One User Experience/Configuration:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Most-Stable-Orbi-Configuration/m-p/1941087/highlight/true#M970...

 

 

I haven't. 

Message 2 of 12
mpsamuels
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

Router Firmware Version is V2.7.2.104 and no updates are offered.

As per my original post - I'm using a Virgin Media Superhub.

I am not double-natting my config. The Superhub is in Modem Mode and Orbi is in Router Mode.

My home is no more than mid-sized, two story. As per my original post - the satellites are approx 10m apart.

There's about 5 other WiFi networks in the area but all very low strength. Given that the WiFi backhaul is meant to run on a different frequency space to client WiFi, it always shows as a '5g, good' connection and the RBS50A never has any bother routing to RBR50 or RBS50B, it's only RBR50 and RBS50B that struggle to go in the other direction on occasions, this doesn't seem relevant.

I refused to sign up to Armor and Circle so both are disabled.

Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming and IPv6 are all already disabled.

I'll try turning 20hz mode off but, again, I don't see this as being a signal error as my client devices can always reach the Router or Satellite they are connected to and get out to the WAN. This is only an issue with routing to devices connected to one particular satellite when another device has connected to a different satellite or router in the same mesh.

 

Message 3 of 12
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem


@mpsamuels wrote:

I have DHCP and DNS setup on a server that's connected by ethernet to RBS50A and DHCP setup on the RBR50 that only has a 2 IP address scope with each of those IPs reserved for the two RBS50s. I have the same reservations setup on my server so regardless of which DHCP service responds to the request for an address first, the RBS50s will always have the same IP address and there will never be an IP conflict. I have daisy chaining topology disabled.


This is certainly a creative configuration.  Connecting this DHCP/DNS server to a satellite rather than the router is a bit unusual.  It would be helpful to understand more about the problem, such as any connection with power outages or device restarts.  Can it be replicated consistently?

 

DHCP requests are broadcast packets, so I would not describe this as "routing traffic that is destined for..."  Broadcast packets are supposed to go everywhere.

 

Netgear's implementation of DHCP does not match my own personal expectations.  It appears, for example, that a request for DHCP renewal does not incorporate the MAC reserbation table.  So, when a device says, "I want to renew 192.168.1.25, the Orbi does an ARP to verify that no one is also using that IP and says, "sure. go for it."  Not bothering to check the reservation table and say, "no bad boy. You are supposed to be on 192.168.1.99"  I have no clue what a DHCP server does when it gets a request and has no IP's left in the pool.  The Wikipedia article on DHCP does not mention this special case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Host_Configuration_Protocol#Discovery 

Message 4 of 12
mpsamuels
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

There's no correlation with power outages and I've no way to replicate the problem at the moment, it seems to happen at random.

 

It may be a 'creative' solution to attach the server to a satelite rather than the router but given the location of the server and the fixed placement of my WAN modem by my ISP I have no choice. This config has worked almost flawlessly for 9 months and continues to work 90% of the time even now. I see no reason why it shouldn't work either.

 

I'm aware of how DHCP is meant to work, maybe I should be more specific and clarify that:

1) In the cases a client doesn't get a DHCP address while connected to RBR50, if I give it a static address in the OS and try to ping the IP of either RBS50A, the server or any other device connected to RBS50A I receive no reply. If I ping RBS50B or any WAN IP address I receive responses as expected, hence this is only an issue routing traffic to RBS50A. An initial DHCP request may be a broadcast packet in itself but the complete handshake and allocation of an address does involve the use of routing protocols.

2) Sometimes the problem occures when my client device already has an IP address leased and I experience problems as I have lost connectivity to my DNS server i.e as above  while connected to RBR50 and I try to ping the IP of either RBS50A or the server I receive no reply. If I ping RBS50B or any WAN IP address I receive responses as expected

 

That DHCP implementation does seem a little odd but as I'm not seeing any evidence of IP address conflicts I don't see that as being the cause of the problem.

Message 5 of 12
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

What happens when RBS50A and RBS50B are switched?

(does the problem go with the satellite?)

 

Is it always the same device or does this happen randomly to many devices?

Message 6 of 12
mpsamuels
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

I hadn't tried switching the satellites but have just done so for confirmation. However, as I highly suspect it's an issue with the router rather than the satellite, I'm imaginig the problem is likely to return within a day or two.

 

As for 'is it always the same device' - when it happens, the problem effects every client device on my LAN and it impacts their ability to reach either RBS50A or the devices attached to it. However, it's only really the inability to reach the server providing DHCP and DNS for my LAN (attached to RBS50A) that really causes any grief. Strangely, devices attached to RBS50A can still reach the other devices connected to RBS50A and route outwards to the WAN so these experience no problems whenever devices connected to RBS50B or RBR50 are essentially rendered offline by virtue of not being able to reach their DNS server.

Message 7 of 12
mpsamuels
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

I've now tried switching the sattelites around and it didn't even last 12hrs before one device that was previously working fine suddenly lost connectivity through to my DNS server so it's looking like it is either a router hardware or config issue.

 

Unless anyone's got any suggestions on where to find some decent logging to do some proper troubleshooting on these things rather than just blindly disabling functions it looks like my next step is factory reset and reconfigure then ship it back as faulty if it still doesn't work.

Message 8 of 12
mpsamuels
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

An update for anyone who may care - I've since disabled the DHCP service on the Orbi and (touch wood!) the Orbi and all devices attached to the mesh appear to be behaving themselves since.

 

The disadvantage of doing this is that whereas previously I could power on my Orbi router, satellites or server in any order I chose as I could rely on either the router or server giving the required DHCP addresses to my satellites, I now have to be careful to always power on the server first (to enable DHCP), then the router (has a static IP), then the two satellites (can now connect to the router and get a DHCP address from the server) to get everything back online properly.

 

IF this has solved the problem permanently I'm not convinced I fully understand why it would do. One thing that did surprise me is that the satellite that's attached to the server shows as being connected to both my Orbi router (via wireless) and my server (wired) using the same (virtual?) MAC address. With that in mind I'm guessing there's something odd going on with the Orbi router's routing tables if/when the satellite first gets it's DHCP address from the router but then later receives a DHCP renewal approval from the server...maybe? 

Message 9 of 12
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

You might update FW, factory reset and setup from scratch. If you do, update the RBS first then RBS lastly. 

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/New-RBK50-53-Series-Firmware-Version-2-7-3-22/m-p/2113656/high...

Message 10 of 12
mpsamuels
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

I might give that a go if/when I get the time.

 

As both my wife and I work from home I can't really afford to mess on with my LAN too much though as if I make any changes in the evening I have to commit to making sure it's back online for the following morning even if that involves a lot of late night troubleshooting. While it seems to be in a stable state for the first time in a while it's probably going to get left well alone!!

 

Incidentally, my Orbi GUI says no new firmware versions are available for my router or satellites. I know I could just use the manual update option though.

Message 11 of 12
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 / RBS50 intermittent routing problem

NG probably hasn't up this new FW up on the auto update servers as of yet so you may not see it on the RBRs update page. 

If and when you do update FW, update the RBS first then RBR lastly. After a reset and gettnig things setup, I recommend making a back up configuration to file for safe keeping. Saves time if a reset is needed. 

https://kb.netgear.com/000062080/How-do-I-back-up-the-configuration-settings-on-my-Orbi-WiFi-System

Message 12 of 12
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
  • 11 replies
  • 1100 views
  • 0 kudos
  • 3 in conversation
Announcements

Orbi WiFi 7