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RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

toddinpal
Aspirant

RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

So after having issues with homegrown mesh systems built on DD-WRT and various routers, I decided to go with a commercial mesh system.  I bought an RBK53 and got it set up without major issues, although it is sad how locked down they've made the device.  In any case I then decide to buy a refurbished RBK52 to install in another location.  However due to COVID-19 I was unable to get to installing it until a month or two ago, even though it was purchased at the end of March.  The satellite will not connect to the router as a satellite. It shows up, if at all, as an unknown device and no satellites show up under connected devices.

 

I've tried upgrading/downgrading firmware via the GUI and via tftp.  It doesn't matter what combination of firmware I try can I get the router and satellite properly connected.  Netgear's response is at this time I can purchase premier support for my device and if that doesn't get it resolved, they refund the purchase of that support.  ROTFLMAO  They haven't been able to get it resolved after many calls, it's clearly a hardware problem, and they won't admit it.  Although much of my networking gear is Netgear, this will probably be my last Netgear purchase.  Never have I encourntered a company that made it so difficult to resolve a hardware issue.

Model: RBR50|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

What Firmware version is currently loaded on the RBR and RBS?
What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

 

Be sure both RBR and RBS have same version of FW. 

 

Factory reset the RBR and RBS and walk thru the setup wizard. Have the RBS in the same room as the RBR initially. 


@toddinpal wrote:

So after having issues with homegrown mesh systems built on DD-WRT and various routers, I decided to go with a commercial mesh system.  I bought an RBK53 and got it set up without major issues, although it is sad how locked down they've made the device.  In any case I then decide to buy a refurbished RBK52 to install in another location.  However due to COVID-19 I was unable to get to installing it until a month or two ago, even though it was purchased at the end of March.  The satellite will not connect to the router as a satellite. It shows up, if at all, as an unknown device and no satellites show up under connected devices.

 

I've tried upgrading/downgrading firmware via the GUI and via tftp.  It doesn't matter what combination of firmware I try can I get the router and satellite properly connected.  Netgear's response is at this time I can purchase premier support for my device and if that doesn't get it resolved, they refund the purchase of that support.  ROTFLMAO  They haven't been able to get it resolved after many calls, it's clearly a hardware problem, and they won't admit it.  Although much of my networking gear is Netgear, this will probably be my last Netgear purchase.  Never have I encourntered a company that made it so difficult to resolve a hardware issue.


 

Message 2 of 15
toddinpal
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

I have tried pretty much every firmware version from V2.0.1.4 to V2.7.0.70 and while the results vary a bit, the router never sees the satellite as a satellite.  As for my ISP, I have tried it with my ISP  (Charter) and my own modem (Arris SB8200), but I usually just test by placing the RBR behind my existing DD-WRT based router.  At this point I feel I am out of options as Netgear has provided totally worthless support and is now telling me I'm not only out of phone support, I'm out of hardware warranty as I bought the pair from Newegg.com as a refurbished unit.  Apparently not refurbished enough.  I've had more routers than I can count from Netgear, Cisco, Asus, TP-Link, Linksys, and more I can't even remember.  I've run stock firmware, DD-WRT, Tomato, OpenWRT, and more, and never had this much difficulty troubleshooting a device.  Maybe at this point I'll turn to some alternative firmware for the pair and see if they'll at least provide me with enough diagnostic information to figure out what's going on.  The pair can communicate with each other wirelessly, just not as router and satellite.  The best I've gotten is for the router to see the satellite as just another connected device, with an "unknown" connection type (which is simply bizarre to have an unknown connection type in a fixed hardware configuration!).  So I know they can communicate. However not being able to see the actual network interfaces and see what's not connecting correctly, it's impossible to troubleshoot.  

 

PS  The recovery techniques and explanation of boot phases and what lights mean on these devices is so woefully documented as to be essentially worthless.

Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 3 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

I would contact NG support to see what your options are. 

Message 4 of 15
toddinpal
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

NG support has basically been useless.  After spending hours on the phone going through the most basic steps, they're telling me I'm past my support period and past my hardware warranty (bought the device refurbished from Newegg at the end of February, but because of COVID-19, I couldn't reach it until July at my other location).  Given that I've tried pretty much every firmware version on both the router and the satellite, as far as I can tell, I bought a defectively refurbished unit and am now screwed.

Message 5 of 15
Mstrbig
Master

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

If you reset the router and satellite, installed the latest firmware on both router and satellite, performed a new setup on the router and after the router was configured, continued to install and pair the satellite, and you are satille seeing the satellite as unknow, you probably originally purchased a defective system from the seller. This is why, when I buy used or refurbished, I immediately test to make sure they are working, so I don't lose the return window. I know you don't want to hear this. 

Maybe one last effort and start from scratch. There's always the possibility that the router and satellite did not fully reset. I've found very stubborn ones in the past. If you are a novice, maybe get local help.

Message 6 of 15
toddinpal
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

Hi Mstrbig,

I'm anything but a novice.  I've been flashing custom firmware such as DD-WRT and others for over a decade (maybe two decades at this point).  I've owned at least 30 different routers over the years as I've been a full time telecommuter for over 25 years.  I'm also a software architect and have developed microcoded firmware, operating system drivers, tools, applications, and everything in between.  

 

But unfortunately I suspect you are right that the system (router I suspect as it sometimes takes hours for it to settle down after loading new firmware and resetting) has a hardware issue.  Like right now I have updated the satellite to V2.7.0.70, and am trying to upgrade the router to the same version.  I upgraded via the UI to V2.7.0.70, but it appears the router is stuck in a reboot loop as it is pingable for a while, then it's not, then it is, then it's not, etc.  If I can get to the UI, it tells me I need to set up the router. 

 

Now after about 30-60 minutes, the router seems to have calmed down and I can start configuring it.  However, it can't find the satellite.  I've tried pressing the sync button on both, but still the router says it can't find the satellite.

 

The weirdest part is that a few times in the past the router would report the satellite as a connected device with an unknown connection instead of being a satellite.  At the moment with V2.7.0.70 firmware installed on both, the satellite is not discoverable.

 

By the way, these are V1 of the RBK50 as they still have the USB port.

Message 7 of 15
Mstrbig
Master

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

Didn't mean to insult you, as I have no way of knowing who is knowledgeable and who is not.

When I updated the RBR50s, it took longer to complete than the satellites. 

I have found, arguably, after installing tons of Orbi mesh systems, (quite a few RBK53), that the best way to have a 100% no issues setup for routers and satellites is to use the app and just follow the setup procedure. I have not used a sync button in a very long time because sometimes it doesn't work. If the app prompts to take a pic of the bar code set it up that way, if not it will search on it's own for satellites and configure them. Then they can be moved, plugged into a cable, etc.

Message 8 of 15
Mstrbig
Master

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

One more thing, if the satellite cannot be found, reset it and add the satellite through the app. It should prompt for the bar code on the bottom.

Message 9 of 15
toddinpal
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

Not feeling insulted, just wanted to let you know I'm not a newbie at this.

 

The interesting part is that when I reset the router it seems as though it takes forever to "settle down", meaning stop dropping the link.  What I've noticed is that for a while after resetting the router, the physical link connection connects and disconnects periodically, which I'm assuming is the firmware rebooting.  It would be really helpful if Netgear would allow access to things like /var/messages or other log files that might give a clue as to what is happening.  At the moment I'm feeling like I'm out of options.

Message 10 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

The RBR shouldn't take forever or a long time to setlle down. I just downgraded my RBR and RBS this morning from v70 to v16, RBS first then RBR lastly. Of course my RBS is already synced. I did directly download FW to the RBS using it's web page. After FW was updated on both, I powered OFF both for 1 minute then back on with the RBR first to check to make sure it was back up and ready. I then powered ON the RBS and let it sync wirelessly which it did then I connected it via ethernet.

 

So your situation, either the RBR is in a bad state or the RBS is and a reset isn't clearing the condition. To really tell, you would need a different RBR and RBS and test each one to the other to see which unit seems to fail with the newer or other units that you can try to aquire if you can. Might be easier to see if you can find a RBS20, RBW30, RBS40v to get and see if these connect. If anyone did then you could consider the RBR ok and the RBS50 the problem child. 

 

Seems like if the RBR is not really resetting using the RESET button or the ERASE button in the UI fully or you notce that the RBR networking is not settling down after a minute or two of being online after a reboot or FW update, seems maybe the RBR maybe in a bad state. Only other thing I would try is the recovery method to install FW on to the RBR. I would try v16 first or you can keep v70. Ether one to get the FW reloaded. Then once its back online. Either try a re-sync with the RBS or factory reset and walk thru the setup wizard and try to see if the wizard can add the RBS during it's run. Do with this the RBS in the same room as the RBR. 6-10 feet away. If the setup wizard reports any failures here, then the RBR or RBS is faulty. These would need to be tested again other RBR and RBS. 

 

Know anyone else around with a RBK50 system that you could take yoru RBS too to see if it synced there?  

Message 11 of 15
toddinpal
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

Hi and thanks for the suggestions.  I've tried pretty much everything you suggested, even going back further in firmware versions, and now up to the latest.  I've flashed via the UI and TFTP. I'm fairly certain it is the router as it just doen't act normally.  As I said, I've watched it after being reset, cycling where my wired connection from my laptop to the router would connect then disconnect, repeat.  Likewise the router would be pingable for a while and then not.  At some point (10 min to some number of hours) it would stop cycling and stay connected to my laptop.

 

I have a RBK53, but it's 1000 miles away, literally.  😞   I may have to drag the RBK50 back to the RBK53 to figure out which one is faulty.  Not a happy camper.


Message 12 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

I would make contact with NG support to see what your options are. Sounds like the RBR is just faulty and needs to be replaced. 

Message 13 of 15
toddinpal
Aspirant

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

NG Support has basically told me that because the unit was a refurbished unit, the hardware warranty was only 90 days, which expired in June, before I was able to even install it due to COVID-19 travel issues.  So I suspect I have a boat anchor.  😞

Message 14 of 15
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBR50 and RBS50 don't sync properly

Ok. Well there you go. Time to replace or find another system. 

Good Luck. 

Message 15 of 15
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