Reply

RBS50 Performance

Angelo1112
Aspirant

RBS50 Performance

Setup: Orbi68 RBR50 & 1 RBS50 Spectrum ISP  Router is about 80' from my desktop and the satellite is roughly at mid-distance between router and desktop location.

The issue is this: the satellite is in the optimum location from a performance and acceptable home aesthetics standpoint. If the satellite is set in its designed stand mode performance is N mbs and if set on its belly/side performance is almost 2N mbs. This suggests to me it is a design or firmware issue. I was informed by Netgear they could correct this issue but since the 90 day free support has expired January 2020 I would need to first purchase a 1 year service contract for $189 for them to correct the issue. I assume the only thing they could do is tweak the satellite firmware to address the issue. I respectfully refused the offer. I would like to know is there anything I can independently do to duplicate whatever support would be doing to  address the issue remotely? I did upload the latest available firmware for the router: V2.5.1.16.

 

 

Message 1 of 10

Accepted Solutions
Angelo1112
Aspirant

Re: RBS50 Performance

Hello Furrye38...

Thanks for your help on my reported issue. The following is the information requested:

What does N mbs and 2N mbs mean? Simply that with the satellite at the optimum location (see below) and set upright my throughput speed in mbs is N and when it's set on its belly/side the throughput is roughly twice when set upright. The actual speed range when upright is 70-100mbs and on its belly/side it is 130-170mbs. Due to the satellites odd/oblong shape the contact area when on its belly/side with the surface of what it is set on is small therefore subject to move with slightest touch. So I have to secure it without blocking its antennas. I have no qualm with the throughput I am getting at the desktop. Of course getting a higher throughput would always be a good thing since at the router location I get over 350mbs.

 

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? It is branded as Spectrum ModelE31U2V1 DOCSIS 3.1 eMTA (who manufactures it for Spectrum I have no idea...not indicated on the case or on the product label)

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? The home is 3,890 sq. ft. with 2 stories with roughly 60% of its area on the lower level where my office is located. The house is approximately 120', not a straight line from one end to the other on the lower story.After measuring, the satellite is just short of 55' from the router and my desktop is 45' from the satellite. Where the satellite is located provides the best throughput at the desktop i.e. if I moved the satellite closer to the router or the or  closer to the desktop throughput goes down.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? I typically pick up 2 or 3 of my neighbors wifi signal. The lots in our development are large, minimum size is half acre, some are multi-acre; ours is over an acre.

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings This has been enabled. Don’t know if it is making a difference in the throughput.

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

I will fiddle and try the suggested changes and see if I get better results. Please understand that I did not consider the problem could be due to how the antennas are arranged in the packaging. I thought it was design issue. It was not because I am cheap; not willing to pay for service support as someone suggested in a response to my post. I was simply trying to bring it to Netgear’s attention and if they really had a fix for a design issue why should I have to pay them to correct their problem. I greatly appreciate everything, the suggestions, education and the time you took to respond to my post. All the best to you.

View solution in original post

Message 8 of 10

All Replies
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBS50 Performance


@Angelo1112 wrote:

I was informed by Netgear they could correct this issue but since the 90 day free support has expired January 2020 I would need to first purchase a 1 year service contract for $189 for them to correct the issue. I assume the only thing they could do is tweak the satellite firmware to address the issue.  The FCC filing provides photos of the internals of the RBR50 showing the antennas.
https://fccid.io/PY316200341/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-RBR50-RBS50-rev-pdf-3926901.iframe 


Good thing that you did not "accept the offer."

 

  • There is nothing the firmware can do about the antenna orientation. By placing the unit on its front/side, you changed the antennas from vertical to horizontal.  This may enhance performance in some directions and reduce performance in other directions.
  • Were you directed to this web site to consider purchasing support:
    https://www.netgear.com/mynetgear/Gearhead/subscribe.aspx 
    This is the "official" Netgear subsidiary that offers technical support.  Notice that in the US there are plans for 6 months, 12 months, and 24 months.  This is an offering similar to GeekSquad from BestBuy. "We'll help you with any product, not just from Netgear."
  • Or, were they attempting to sell an extended warranty or extended service plan, which according to the Netgear web site, must be purchased within 90 days of buying the unit?
I love my Orbi.
Message 2 of 10
Angelo1112
Aspirant

Re: RBS50 Performance

Thanks for the reply. The 90 days from purchase registration expired this past January. Since what was provided in the warranty coverage was that I had voice or chat support on the product for 1 year from purchase. But the support website indicated the opposite. So I placed the call to get clarification. After I explained the situation, which took some time since the person on the other end English was not her first language, I was put on hold. When she came back to the call she started by saying they could fix the problem but since my free coverage had expired I needed to buy a support plan. Before she put me on hold I sensed what would be coming down. The 2 year deal was initially offered followed by the 1year option and the end a 6 mos. option each rejected when quoted. When it became clear I wasn't going to buy I got quick brushoff but ending with a promise she would be sending me some possibly helpful info. It was never sent. Not the experience I was expecting. Have bought lots of gear from Netgear over the years.

 

Message 3 of 10
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBS50 Performance

This is disappointing on so many levels.  I am really surprised that you were able to reach someone on the phone.  Most people report that their attempts to reach "support" were rebuffed because their support had already "expired".

 

Alas, I have no idea how other companies treat their customers.  I do remember (years (YEARS) ago) when my company installed Microsoft Exchange servers that we had to "purchase support" in order to have a number to call someone when things went sideways.  I do suspect that this situation is not exclusive to Netgear.  But... my personal knowledge is really limited.

 

Anyway, back to the original problem.....  As long as the satellite gets a "blue light" (good backhaul), then 40 ft. to the computer should not be "too far". Close would be better, but you have to live with the situation you have.  My guess is that running an ethernet cable from the desktop to either the satellite or the router is impractical.

I love my Orbi.
Message 4 of 10

Re: RBS50 Performance


@Angelo1112 wrote:

I was informed by Netgear they could correct this issue but since the 90 day free support has expired January 2020 I would need to first purchase a 1 year service contract for $189 for them to correct the issue.

 


 

Who did you call? The bit about being asked to pay for support may be a scam.

 

If you called a number that you found with a web search, that almost certainly had nothing to do with Netgear.

 

Netgear itself does not provide "paid for" support. That is done through GearHead Technical Support.

 

GearHead Support

 

Web searches can deliver results that scream "Netgear support" at the top but that turn out to be anything but. Using them can be dangerous, for your network and your bank balance.

 

By the way, Gearhead does not have a "1 year service contract for $189". That is $139.99, which makes me think you ended up with one of those pirates.

 

If you have the number, or the website you reached, I urge you to tell Netgear so that it can  put the squeeze on the scammers. @Christian_R, @ChristineT or @DexterJB may be interested.

Just another user with a set of boilerplate macros.

My network DM200 -> R7800 -> GS316 -> PL1000 -> Orbi RBR40 -> Orbi RBS50Y -> RBS40V
Message 5 of 10
CrimpOn
Guru

Re: RBS50 Performance

A couple of minor points.

  • gearhead.netgear.com is pretty clearly "Netgear".  Click on "About Us" at the bottom of the page.
    Notice the statement under the pricing plans "Next steps require NETGEAR account log in."
    Click on "Terms and Conditions" to see "These Terms and Conditions are between you (“You” or “User”) and NETGEAR, Inc. (for the Americas) or NETGEAR International Limited (for all other territories including but not limited to Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia Pacific, Australia and New Zealand) concerning Your use of.... " etc. etc.
    My take is that GearHead IS "Netgear paid technical support."
  • The pricing plans shown are $139 US for one year.  Australia costs $199 for one year. Canada $179. New Zealand $199. 
    So, there is no $139 option.  There is always the possibility that someone misread the "3" as an "8".

Being "too cheap" to pay for technical support, I always just smile at the nice Best Buy salesman, accept the glossy brochure about Geek Squad and all the wonderful benefits, and go away.  When my technology use was a business requirement, paid for support was one of the regular business expenses.  Same thing with GearHead.

 

My response remains, "tinkering with the firmware" cannot possibly change the antenna pattern.

I love my Orbi.
Message 6 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBS50 Performance

"If the satellite is set in its designed stand mode performance is N mbs and if set on its belly/side performance is almost 2N mbs"

What does N mbs and 2N mbs mean? 

 

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too?

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected. https://kb.netgear.com/000036466/How-far-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite-from-my-Orbi-router

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many?

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).


@Angelo1112 wrote:

Setup: Orbi68 RBR50 & 1 RBS50 Spectrum ISP  Router is about 80' from my desktop and the satellite is roughly at mid-distance between router and desktop location.

The issue is this: the satellite is in the optimum location from a performance and acceptable home aesthetics standpoint. If the satellite is set in its designed stand mode performance is N mbs and if set on its belly/side performance is almost 2N mbs. This suggests to me it is a design or firmware issue. I was informed by Netgear they could correct this issue but since the 90 day free support has expired January 2020 I would need to first purchase a 1 year service contract for $189 for them to correct the issue. I assume the only thing they could do is tweak the satellite firmware to address the issue. I respectfully refused the offer. I would like to know is there anything I can independently do to duplicate whatever support would be doing to  address the issue remotely? I did upload the latest available firmware for the router: V2.5.1.16.

 

 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router RBK853 (Router Mode) | and R9000 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 7 of 10
Angelo1112
Aspirant

Re: RBS50 Performance

Hello Furrye38...

Thanks for your help on my reported issue. The following is the information requested:

What does N mbs and 2N mbs mean? Simply that with the satellite at the optimum location (see below) and set upright my throughput speed in mbs is N and when it's set on its belly/side the throughput is roughly twice when set upright. The actual speed range when upright is 70-100mbs and on its belly/side it is 130-170mbs. Due to the satellites odd/oblong shape the contact area when on its belly/side with the surface of what it is set on is small therefore subject to move with slightest touch. So I have to secure it without blocking its antennas. I have no qualm with the throughput I am getting at the desktop. Of course getting a higher throughput would always be a good thing since at the router location I get over 350mbs.

 

What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? It is branded as Spectrum ModelE31U2V1 DOCSIS 3.1 eMTA (who manufactures it for Spectrum I have no idea...not indicated on the case or on the product label)

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft? The home is 3,890 sq. ft. with 2 stories with roughly 60% of its area on the lower level where my office is located. The house is approximately 120', not a straight line from one end to the other on the lower story.After measuring, the satellite is just short of 55' from the router and my desktop is 45' from the satellite. Where the satellite is located provides the best throughput at the desktop i.e. if I moved the satellite closer to the router or the or  closer to the desktop throughput goes down.

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and any unused channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? I typically pick up 2 or 3 of my neighbors wifi signal. The lots in our development are large, minimum size is half acre, some are multi-acre; ours is over an acre.

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or maynot be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings This has been enabled. Don’t know if it is making a difference in the throughput.

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

I will fiddle and try the suggested changes and see if I get better results. Please understand that I did not consider the problem could be due to how the antennas are arranged in the packaging. I thought it was design issue. It was not because I am cheap; not willing to pay for service support as someone suggested in a response to my post. I was simply trying to bring it to Netgear’s attention and if they really had a fix for a design issue why should I have to pay them to correct their problem. I greatly appreciate everything, the suggestions, education and the time you took to respond to my post. All the best to you.

Message 8 of 10
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: RBS50 Performance

And the problem may be with your system and not a design issue as others including myself haven't experience this our selves. Would be presumpuous to assume that this is a systemwide design issue...

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CAX80 Modem Mode |  Wifi Router RBK853 (Router Mode) | and R9000 (Router Mode) | Switches NG GS105/8, GS308v3, GS110MX and XS505M | Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: MK63, MR6150, R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, R9000, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, XR1000, EX7500/EX7700

Message 9 of 10
Angelo1112
Aspirant

Re: RBS50 Performance

Furrye8...

Your response has confused me. First, based mainly on your inputs I have closed the posted problem. I closed it because of the responses from you and others, the orientation of how the satellite is set in place on the installed surface affects throughput, due to how the antennas are arrayed in the housing. That the satellite empirically provides, in my case, significantly greater throughput when set on is side rather than when is set vertically as designed suggests a weakness in its design. That the unit set on its side makes it subject to be  unstable unless secured in place is also empirically true. So how could it be my system? Try it with your system to see if you see the comparable results. What I have come to accept is that my unit despite this issue is not going to be fixed or replaced by Netgear. I will come up with something to secure it in place. No big issue as long as the throughput is acceptable.

Message 10 of 10
Top Contributors
Discussion stats
  • 9 replies
  • 804 views
  • 4 kudos
  • 4 in conversation
Announcements

Orbi WiFi 6E