Reply

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update

Ploppy1
Aspirant

Router not working after 3-23-21 update

Per Netgears suggestion, I updated the firmware on my Orbi system/router on March 23rd, 2021. Since then, the router will periodically stop working and disconnect from the internet/modem. Message in Orbi app states "not connected to any network." Modem is ISP owned, but problen is not on ISP side, as I had a troubleshooting call with them, when this problem first occurred. The only way to get the router back online is to disconnect it from the modem and from power, wait 2 mins and connect it all again. I've had to do this 4 times already since the firmware update occurred.
Model: RBR20|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 1 of 29
CrimpOn
Sage

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update

Was there a reason that Netgear recommended updating firmware?  i.e. you called them because of a problem and updating firmware was their response?

 

Unless there was a serious issue that you called Netgear about, the obvious answer is to manually load the previous firmware on the router. This requires using a computer attached to the router web interface, not the "app".

 

Just so you are aware, there is a major issue affecting Orbi routers that can be fixed by disabling the Traffic Meter function.  (A long story involving Daylight Saving Time and DNS resolution. There are at least a dozen posts on the forum lately about it.)  This also requires connecting a browser to the Orbi web interface.

 

So, if you called Netgear about the Orbi being unable to connect to web sites, the solution is probably turning off Traffic Meter.

I love my Orbi.
Message 2 of 29
Ploppy1
Aspirant

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update

The update was recommended via the Orbi app. I know in the past, via press releases from Orbi and other tech websites,
not updating the firmware can pose a huge security risk. ALL the connection problems started occurring AFTER I updated the firmware. Everything was working fine before the firmware update.
Message 3 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update

The Orbi app is know to cause problems after a FW update. It's recommended to manually download FW files using a wired PC and web broswer to apply them or use the RBRs web page to upate FW.

 

You might manually re-load FW using the above info, then factory reset and setup from scratch if the traffic meter disaling doesn't solve this for you. 


@Ploppy1 wrote:
The update was recommended via the Orbi app. I know in the past, via press releases from Orbi and other tech websites,
not updating the firmware can pose a huge security risk. ALL the connection problems started occurring AFTER I updated the firmware. Everything was working fine before the firmware update.

 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RBRE960(v.85) and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 4 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@Ploppy1 wrote:
The update was recommended via the Orbi app. I know in the past, via press releases from Orbi and other tech websites,
not updating the firmware can pose a huge security risk. ALL the connection problems started occurring AFTER I updated the firmware. Everything was working fine before the firmware update.

Any recommendation from either the pc login or app is just that, a recommendation.  You are NOT required to update.

Message 5 of 29
Ha_Ku_Na
Luminary

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@vajim wrote:

@Ploppy1 wrote:
The update was recommended via the Orbi app. I know in the past, via press releases from Orbi and other tech websites,
not updating the firmware can pose a huge security risk. ALL the connection problems started occurring AFTER I updated the firmware. Everything was working fine before the firmware update.

Any recommendation from either the pc login or app is just that, a recommendation.  You are NOT required to update.


Correct, it is not required to update the firmware, but the fact of having security issues with older firmwares is a good reason to update.

https://kb.netgear.com/000062883/Security-Advisory-for-Multiple-Vulnerabilities-on-Some-Routers-Sate...

 

And it is also correct, the latest firmware has a bug (WITH ENABLED "Traffic-Meter") which can lead in an unstable system.

 

But this bug is also present in older firmwares (looks at least from 2.3.5.36 upwards), see:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-DNS-and-DHCP-and-NTP-Broken/m-p/2071537/highlight/true#M1...

 

If there is a suitable workaround to fix a current issue, then there is no need to downgrade the firmware.

 

Anyway, it is up to the preferences of the users to update or not.

RBR50 / 2xRBS50 WiFi / 1xRBS50 wired / FW2.7.3.23
Message 6 of 29
CrimpOn
Sage

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@Ploppy1 wrote:
The update was recommended via the Orbi app. I know in the past, via press releases from Orbi and other tech websites,
not updating the firmware can pose a huge security risk. ALL the connection problems started occurring AFTER I updated the firmware. Everything was working fine before the firmware update.

You have every reason to be disappointed and frustrated with Netgear.  The general position in the tech world is as you described.  One of the essential steps in cyber security is keeping software up to date.  Most of the time, new software is accompanied by a description of the reason for the update and the severity.  Microsoft's monthly software releases, for example, list the specific problems addressed and label each update with a severity code.  Every once in a while, software will be released announcing an urgent problem with advice to install immediately.  Except for those (few) occasions, it is also a generally accepted principal to "not be the first".  i.e. wait at least a few days for others to update their systems and see if anything happens, such as the recent fiasco with Windows 10 and printers.

 

First, Netgear provides no useful information with new firmware.

Second, people who participate in the community forums have learned that Orbi firmware updates very often lead to unexpected consequences.

 

In this particular case, I would first check out the Traffic Meter setting and see if that fixes things.

Open http://orbilogin.net with a web browser. Enter the admin credentials "admin" and your admin password.

Navigate to the Advanced Tab, Advanced Settings, Traffic Meter (toward the bottom), and uncheck the box "Enable Traffic Meter."

You can't go on the way it is, and reinstalling firmware is more work than checking one box.

 

We seem to have several philosophical positions on the forum:

  • Some users are eager to update to the latest firmware and deal with the consequences.
    (If it works, great.  If there are problems, manually load the previous firmware. No big deal)
  • Some users are "wait and see".  I wait to see what gets reported on the forum and have put off letting the Orbi update for up to a month.
  • Some users say, "over my dead body." and would rather never update firmware.  "If it ain't broke, then don't fix it."

Good Luck

I love my Orbi.
Message 7 of 29
tak1313
Luminary

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update

I'm in the 'wait and see' camp as well.  Some updates (of any kind/brand/hardware) can be so problematic that the manufacturer actually ends up pulling the update.

 

I don't know if NG is any worse, because I haven't owned any NG routers for quite a while until I dove into mesh with the RBK52w.  Prior to that, I've been running Asus, D-Link, and Linksys 'regular' routers.

 

Just prior to the RBK kit, I was on the Asus 68U with a TP-Link extender to get to my daughter's room and her Roku.

 

The last NG router I had was a something4500 years ago.

 

Honestly, I've had various problems with all brands of routers over the years to some extent, but so far.  For example, the gui for the 68u pretty consistently failed to be missing a device or two in the 'attached devices' page even though I knew they were connected and running - and it's a complaint I frequently see here in the Orbi forums.  But for me, I don't care if it shows up as long as it's working.

 

What I don't like the most about NG is the lack of information about their product operation and updates.  As said above, their decriptions of updates REALLY s*ck - I think the worst I've seen of any company.

 

Another example is the RBK kit mentioned above.  I was having modest speeds out of the satellites so upgraded to AX because there was a deal - originally, I was just going to find a used RBS50 to replace one of the RBW30s.

 

I recenlty found out that despite NG's product description, manuals, etc. that backhaul was 5ghz, 2.4ghz was used as backhaul if necessary.  BUT, a problem is that the satellites would fall back on 2.4 EVEN WHEN THERE WAS SUFFICIENT 5 SIGNAL (you can find the info elswhere in the net).  I disabled the 2.4 backhaul capability of the kit, then bang - all good.

 

I'm keeping the AX though, because I already have it and the deal was decent, but it is REALLY irritating - enough so that when it comes time to change again (fairly requent for me), it will never be NG again - likely back to Asus.

Message 8 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@Ha_Ku_Na wrote:

@vajim wrote:

@Ploppy1 wrote:
The update was recommended via the Orbi app. I know in the past, via press releases from Orbi and other tech websites,
not updating the firmware can pose a huge security risk. ALL the connection problems started occurring AFTER I updated the firmware. Everything was working fine before the firmware update.

Any recommendation from either the pc login or app is just that, a recommendation.  You are NOT required to update.


Correct, it is not required to update the firmware, but the fact of having security issues with older firmwares is a good reason to update.

https://kb.netgear.com/000062883/Security-Advisory-for-Multiple-Vulnerabilities-on-Some-Routers-Sate...

 

And it is also correct, the latest firmware has a bug (WITH ENABLED "Traffic-Meter") which can lead in an unstable system.

 

But this bug is also present in older firmwares (looks at least from 2.3.5.36 upwards), see:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-DNS-and-DHCP-and-NTP-Broken/m-p/2071537/highlight/true#M1...

 

If there is a suitable workaround to fix a current issue, then there is no need to downgrade the firmware.

 

Anyway, it is up to the preferences of the users to update or not.


Thanks 

 

Excellent write up.  

Message 9 of 29
simorame
Tutor

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@CrimpOn wrote:

In this particular case, I would first check out the Traffic Meter setting and see if that fixes things.

Open http://orbilogin.net with a web browser. Enter the admin credentials "admin" and your admin password.

Navigate to the Advanced Tab, Advanced Settings, Traffic Meter (toward the bottom), and uncheck the box "Enable Traffic Meter."


For now, as I wrote in the other thread, I tried fixing my connection  issues by switching back to the previous firmware version and it seems to work. Prior to do that, however, I looked for the "Traffic Meter" settings but could not find them anywhere, even after changing the language from Italian to English.  Is it maybe because I'm using a different Orbi model?

Model: RBR20|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 10 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@simorame wrote:

@CrimpOn wrote:

In this particular case, I would first check out the Traffic Meter setting and see if that fixes things.

Open http://orbilogin.net with a web browser. Enter the admin credentials "admin" and your admin password.

Navigate to the Advanced Tab, Advanced Settings, Traffic Meter (toward the bottom), and uncheck the box "Enable Traffic Meter."


For now, as I wrote in the other thread, I tried fixing my connection  issues by switching back to the previous firmware version and it seems to work. Prior to do that, however, I looked for the "Traffic Meter" settings but could not find them anywhere, even after changing the language from Italian to English.  Is it maybe because I'm using a different Orbi model?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1LDlwh2Tc

Message 11 of 29
simorame
Tutor

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@vajim wrote:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1LDlwh2Tc

Thanks for the video.   I can confirm the Traffic Meter is not showing in my Orbi advanced  setup (please see screenshot: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1khqrAtOBoFjDey2L1ogkzn5m7RelhOer/view?usp=sharing).

 

I am using Orbi in AP mode but I guess I should be able  to see it anyway.

 

Model: RBR20|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 12 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update

TM is not available in AP Mode. 

https://kb.netgear.com/26765/Disabled-Features-on-the-Router-when-set-to-AP-Mode

You can skip this step. 

 


@simorame wrote:

I am using Orbi in AP mode but I guess I should be able  to see it anyway.

 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RBRE960(v.85) and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 13 of 29
simorame
Tutor

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@FURRYe38 wrote:

TM is not available in AP Mode. 

https://kb.netgear.com/26765/Disabled-Features-on-the-Router-when-set-to-AP-Mode

You can skip this step. 



Thanks for the advice.  After downgrading  my Orbi firmware version I thought I  had fixed my wifi connection issues, which I described in this thread:  https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR20-wifi-keeps-dropping/m-p/2076198.

 

I marked it as solved because at first it looked like things  were back to normal, but today my phone is unable to connect to my wifi network again.   It looks like I'm back to square  one.

 

 

Model: RBR20|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 14 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@simorame wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

TM is not available in AP Mode. 

https://kb.netgear.com/26765/Disabled-Features-on-the-Router-when-set-to-AP-Mode

You can skip this step. 



Thanks for the advice.  After downgrading  my Orbi firmware version I thought I  had fixed my wifi connection issues, which I described in this thread:  https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR20-wifi-keeps-dropping/m-p/2076198.

 

I marked it as solved because at first it looked like things  were back to normal, but today my phone is unable to connect to my wifi network again.   It looks like I'm back to square  one.

 

 


Sorry to hear you're still having problems.  I did note AP mode in your posts.  For me, IMHO, I would never use AP mode and even try to run the Orbi with another router.  There are others here you love it.  

Message 15 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? 

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? 

 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or may not be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

 

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

 

One User Experience/Configuration:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Most-Stable-Orbi-Configuration/m-p/1941087/highlight/true#M970...


You can find other speed diagnosis steps in the community faq: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/Community-FAQ-My-Orbi-speeds-are-slow-inconsistent-and-don-...


@simorame wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

TM is not available in AP Mode. 

https://kb.netgear.com/26765/Disabled-Features-on-the-Router-when-set-to-AP-Mode

You can skip this step. 



Thanks for the advice.  After downgrading  my Orbi firmware version I thought I  had fixed my wifi connection issues, which I described in this thread:  https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-RBR20-wifi-keeps-dropping/m-p/2076198.

 

I marked it as solved because at first it looked like things  were back to normal, but today my phone is unable to connect to my wifi network again.   It looks like I'm back to square  one.

 

 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RBRE960(v.85) and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 16 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@FURRYe38 wrote:

TM is not available in AP Mode. 

https://kb.netgear.com/26765/Disabled-Features-on-the-Router-when-set-to-AP-Mode

You can skip this step. 

 


Thanks for pointing out my mis-step

 


 


 

Message 17 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@FURRYe38 wrote:


What is the Mfr and model# of the Internet Service Providers modem/ONT the NG router is connected too? 

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet or more is recommended in between RBR and RBS to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly connected.
https://kb.netgear.com/31029/Where-should-I-place-my-Orbi-satellite

 

What channels are you using? Auto? Try setting manual channel 1, 6 or 11 on 2.4Ghz and 40 to 48 channel on 5Ghz.
Any Wifi Neighbors near by? If so, how many? 

 

Try enabling Beamforming and MIMO(MIMO may or may not be needed) and WMM. Under Advanced Tab/Advanced Settings/Wireless Settings

 

Try disabling the following and see:
Armor, Circle, Daisy Chain, Fast Roaming, IPv6 and Set 20/40Mhz Coexistence to 40Mhz only. Set Short preamble instead of Long preamble modes. Save settings and reboot the router and satellite(s).

 

One User Experience/Configuration:
https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Most-Stable-Orbi-Configuration/m-p/1941087/highlight/true#M970...


You can find other speed diagnosis steps in the community faq: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi-AX/Community-FAQ-My-Orbi-speeds-are-slow-inconsistent-and-don-...


@simorame wrote:

@FURRYe38 wrote:

TM is not available in AP Mode. 

https://kb.netgear.com/26765/Disabled-Features-on-the-Router-when-set-to-AP-Mode

You can skip this step. 



I know...you can post any way you see fit.  But your copy/past posting are working over time.

 

 


 


 

Message 18 of 29
simorame
Tutor

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@vajim wrote:


Sorry to hear you're still having problems.  I did note AP mode in your posts.  For me, IMHO, I would never use AP mode and even try to run the Orbi with another router.  There are others here you love it.  


Thanks, I really appreciate your help.  I've been thinking about trying to switch the Orbi system from AP mode to router  mode, using my ISP default modem/router just as a modem. In order to do that, however, I need to add a switch , because I have several devices directly connected to my ISP router via cable.

 

I still don't understand what might have caused these problems, because my local network worked fine  for several months after I added the Orbi system in AP mode.   I didn't change any settings either in the meantime. The only significant change was the Orbi firmware update five days ago. 

 

Right now the only issue is with my phone. I just managed to reconnect it to my wifi network by switching from DHCP to static IP . Before I attempt any other solution, I will wait tonight to see if my wifi drops completely again, as it did in the previous days.

 

 

Model: RBR20|Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi Router
Message 19 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@simorame wrote:

@vajim wrote:


Sorry to hear you're still having problems.  I did note AP mode in your posts.  For me, IMHO, I would never use AP mode and even try to run the Orbi with another router.  There are others here you love it.  


Thanks, I really appreciate your help.  I've been thinking about trying to switch the Orbi system from AP mode to router  mode, using my ISP default modem/router just as a modem. In order to do that, however, I need to add a switch , because I have several devices directly connected to my ISP router via cable.

 

I still don't understand what might have caused these problems, because my local network worked fine  for several months after I added the Orbi system in AP mode.   I didn't change any settings either in the meantime. The only significant change was the Orbi firmware update five days ago. 

 

Right now the only issue is with my phone. I just managed to reconnect it to my wifi network by switching from DHCP to static IP . Before I attempt any other solution, I will wait tonight to see if my wifi drops completely again, as it did in the previous days.

 

I hear ya....and I not saying give up your AP mode.  I'm only suggesting that your consider it.  With all the recent firmware problems (and it won't stop here), something like AP mode in the mix can appear to make things more complicated.  

 

 


 

Message 20 of 29
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update

Try a factory reset and setup from scratch. 

Try the suggestions as well. 

 

Good Luck. 


@simorame wrote:


Thanks, I really appreciate your help.  I've been thinking about trying to switch the Orbi system from AP mode to router  mode, using my ISP default modem/router just as a modem. In order to do that, however, I need to add a switch , because I have several devices directly connected to my ISP router via cable.

 

I still don't understand what might have caused these problems, because my local network worked fine  for several months after I added the Orbi system in AP mode.   I didn't change any settings either in the meantime. The only significant change was the Orbi firmware update five days ago. 

 

Right now the only issue is with my phone. I just managed to reconnect it to my wifi network by switching from DHCP to static IP . Before I attempt any other solution, I will wait tonight to see if my wifi drops completely again, as it did in the previous days.

 

 


 

My Setup ISP SparkLight | Internet Cable 1000↓/50↑ CM2000 Modem | Wifi Router RBRE960(v.85) and R8500(v.158) Router Mode | Switches NG GS105/8 | 

Additional NG HW: C7800/CAX80/CM1100/CM1200/CM2000, Orbi: CBK40, CBK752, RBK50, RBK853, RBK752, RBK953, SXK30 | NightHawk: R7000, R7800, R7960P, R8000, R8500, RAXE500, RAX50, XR450, EX7500/EX7700, GS308v3

Message 21 of 29
simorame
Tutor

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@vajim wrote:

I hear ya....and I not saying give up your AP mode.  I'm only suggesting that your consider it.  With all the recent firmware problems (and it won't stop here), something like AP mode in the mix can appear to make things more complicated.  



I'm going to give  it a try  soon. I've just found a spare switch to connect to the Orbi.

 

In the meantime  my PS4, which is wired to my ISP modem/router through a switch) lost the Internet connection again. I had to reboot  the modem/router to get it back online. 

Message 22 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@simorame wrote:

@vajim wrote:

I hear ya....and I not saying give up your AP mode.  I'm only suggesting that your consider it.  With all the recent firmware problems (and it won't stop here), something like AP mode in the mix can appear to make things more complicated.  



I'm going to give  it a try  soon. I've just found a spare switch to connect to the Orbi.

 

In the meantime  my PS4, which is wired to my ISP modem/router through a switch) lost the Internet connection again. I had to reboot  the modem/router to get it back online. 


ugh....if you don't NEED that ISP modem/router, get a replacement.  Lots of choices that work well with th Orbi.

Message 23 of 29
simorame
Tutor

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@vajim wrote:


ugh....if you don't NEED that ISP modem/router, get a replacement.  Lots of choices that work well with th Orbi.


Can you suggest any modem/router that would work well with Orbi? I'm on VDSL2  (Fiber to the cabinet)  technology. Unfortunately FTTH is not available yet in my area. 

Message 24 of 29
vajim
Master

Re: Router not working after 3-23-21 update


@simorame wrote:

@vajim wrote:


ugh....if you don't NEED that ISP modem/router, get a replacement.  Lots of choices that work well with th Orbi.


Can you suggest any modem/router that would work well with Orbi? I'm on VDSL2  (Fiber to the cabinet)  technology. Unfortunately FTTH is not available yet in my area. 


Sorry....I use a straight up modem (Motorola).  You may want to check with your ISP and see if it's even possible.

Message 25 of 29
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