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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi


@Dynamiteboy wrote:

Perfect thank you for your input, I will update with what happens later this week. My step-by-step looks correct then right?

 

Best,

Jonathan


Good luck.  Yes your steps look correct. This link explains how to switch from standard to "boost" setup.  Boost is what Sonos calls the mesh network setup, even though no Boost device is required.

 

https://sonos.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3319/~/switching-your-system-between-a-standard-a...

Message 76 of 149
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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

Duplicate post deleted.


Message 77 of 149
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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

I setup exactly as we had spoken about:

 

  • Sonos is on version 7.1 and all up to date
  • Orbi is running the latest firmware
  • One bridge is wired into the Orbi Router
  • No other Sonos device is wired into any of the house drops
  • Sonos has channel 11, Orbi has channel 1 on the 2.4ghz.
  • Restarted the Orbi

 

Now the Satelite does not disconnect and the sonos system is setup (Had to relink all the speakers, probably due to this being a boost setup now), Sonos does not disconnect, but the strangest thing happens. Orbi speeds are erradict when music is playing! Should be 100-120mbs and when Music is playing it goes anywhere from 30-80mbs. The problem seems to reside when music stops and speeds on the phone and the laptop go back up to 120mbs stable.

 

Is anyone else experiecing this? There are no errors anywhere, but its an eradict speed. No ping drops either. Orbi and Sonos still don't seem to like each other though and its frustrating, I am not confident in them right now. I will continue to test and hope that Orbi has some sort of auto optimization features it is still trying to configure for the house just like other mesh setups have, but I honestly have little hope in these 2 devices working flawlessly together. There is no way that playing Sonos music should drop the internet speed 30-50mbs. 

 

The phone and the laptop did not move both running tests on both fast.com and speedtest.net. 

 

Jonathan

 

 

 

Message 78 of 149
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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

I have tested speed on my network after playing streem on my Sonos speaker and did not notice any difference in download speed. Not sure why you are having speed issues.

Message 79 of 149
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Apprentice

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

 

A couple of items (some questions):

 

1. How many Sonos devices are there? How many of them are playing music?

2. Never trust full wifi speed tests. - Use ethernet to the main router. Wifi is inherently unstable, you need to know if it's your internet or your wifi having issues.

3. Beware of the target test server - Speedtest.net allows you to choose a single server.

4. Beware of phone tests in general - My iphone can show wildly different speeds from one test to the next while my laptop is stable.

In essence, make sure it's your internet connection that is stressed. If it is actually wifi, than a firmware reset of the orbi's is the next thing to try (not just a reboot).

These units should be able to handle that, but if it's your internet connection that is flooded, *something* is generating that traffic and it's either normal for your network load, or you have something rogue on the network that you need to find and eliminate.

--Derrek

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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

  1. There are 9 sonos units in total including the bridge, doesn't matter how many are playing music at a time the same issue persists.
  2.  I know that wired speeds are more stable, but I don't see the issues in wired speeds. So it is wireless.
  3. Test server never changed, and fast.com servers are always the same to netflix.
  4. I only used a phone to serve as a different device compared to the laptop. Both were stable at 120 when sonos was not playing anything.
  5. There is nothing additional running on the network besides my laptop, and phone for speed testing. Nothing rogue.

 

We can debate the reliability of speedtests, but what I am seeing I can replicate a hundred times over. While sonos is playing music wifi speed tests are all over the board when they stop playing music the speeds on both devices within a minute return to stable. 

 

I just really think Orbi and Sonos interfere in someway possibly their backhaul band. I could maybe try turning off the 2.4 ghz band and see if that helps, but most of the devices are probably on the 5ghz band anyways automatically.

 

These Orbi's are brand new with barley a single changed setting, I hardly see how a firmware reset would fix the issue.

Message 81 of 149
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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

Rookie, 

 

You are speedtesting before, during and after playing music through Sonos? Same exact speed?

 

How many Sonos devices do you have? 

 

Do you have your 2.4ghz band turned on?

Message 82 of 149
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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

It is at all possible because there are 9 Sonos devices there is a larger bandwidth requirement for streaming music and is causing the disruption in the speed tests?

Message 83 of 149
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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

1. I have two Sonos speakers.

2. Yes, I tested speed before, during palying Sono speaker and after.

3. Yes, I am using both bands (2.4ghz & 5ghz.).

My both speakers are on second floor in bedrooms and Sonos Hub is connect to 8 port switch on ground floor in family room where TV, Orbi router and other AV devices are.

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Apprentice

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

If you have verified that the stability is with the wifi and not your internet connection, then I suggest doing the same with Ethernet plugged into the satellite. If that speed is stable while playing music, then it's not the backhaul.

The next thing to try is turning off the satellite entirely and see if the issue persists with just the router.

Do you have the 2 orbi or 3 orbi kit?
Message 85 of 149
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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

Okay I will try that as well. 

 

I have the Orbi 2 kit.

Message 86 of 149
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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi


@Dynamiteboy wrote:

Okay I will try that as well. 

 

I have the Orbi 2 kit.


I just tested with 9 sonos components actively playing a high-def stream from Pandora.  There was no impact on the Orbi wireless throughput.

 

I have two bridges and 7 speakers, both old and new generation. I also have two CR200 controllers, which use the sonosnet wireless network.

 

Something must be misconfigured with your system, or there is something else going on that you haven't discovered yet.

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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

I agree, its hard to for me to be entirley sold that they aren't compatiable because of everyone else saying that theres is fine. This is a stock Orbi system though, no strange changes made, no strange configs. I will continue to do more testing later this week, but I can replicate the problem so consistently that something is definitely going on. I thought there may still be a loop going on, but that would cause issues on the network as a whole reagrdless of whether music was being played or not. 

 

When you say wireless throughput you mean testing the backend on the orbi's? Or your internet speed via speedtesting site?

Message 88 of 149
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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

 

@Dynamiteboy wrote:

I agree, its hard to for me to be entirley sold that they aren't compatiable because of everyone else saying that theres is fine. This is a stock Orbi system though, no strange changes made, no strange configs. I will continue to do more testing later this week, but I can replicate the problem so consistently that something is definitely going on. I thought there may still be a loop going on, but that would cause issues on the network as a whole reagrdless of whether music was being played or not. 

 

When you say wireless throughput you mean testing the backend on the orbi's? Or your internet speed via speedtesting site?

 

OK. I did a couple more tests and found that Sonos components with 5 GHz radios can impact the Orbi backhaul speed. I find the impact inconsequential to me though.

 

The testing I did was on the internal network, between two Macbook Pros (MBPs), using iperf3.  If you don't have iperf, I recommend you download it and use it.  It's best to test inside the network anyway, because doing so removes Internet variability. 

 

I get either 100 Mbps, 225 Mbps, 500/580 Mbps, or 940 Mbps throughput, depending on how things are connected. The only thing impacted by Sonos is the Orbi Backhaul.

 

Both MBPs wireless: 100 Mbps.

One wired to Sat and one wireless to Sat: 225 Mbps.

One wired to Sat and one wired to Router: ~500 Mbps or ~575 MBs depending on Sonos setup. (Pure Orbi backhaul. See details below.)

Both MBPs wired to Sat: 940 Mbps. (Pure GigE switch speeds.)

 

Impact of Sonos on Bachaul:

With Sonos OFF I get a backhaul throughput of ~575 Mbps.

With all Sonos components ON I get a backhaul throughput of ~500 Mbps.  

With Sonos ON but all newer Sonos components that include the 5 GHz radio OFF I get ~575 Mbps again. (That includes: Play:3, Play:5 Gen2, Playbar, Sub.)

 

So, the Sonos 5 GHz inter-speaker link does seem to impact the Orb'si maximum backhaul throughput by about 75 Mbps. That has zero impact on how I use the network, so it's inconsequential to me. If I need faster backhaul than 500 Mbps I will run a wire.

 

There appears to be no way to set Orbi's backhaul channel and no way to set Sonos' 5 GHz channel, so it looks like there's nothing to optimize here.

 

Maybe this information will help you understand what's happening with your setup.

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Apprentice

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

This is interesting. I have no 5ghz sonos devices, but this seems like a distinct possibility. However, it should only be a problem when using those devices in their surround sound modes (5.1 surround sound). Possibly with stereo pairs (don't see info on this).

If you have these, I would suggest unpairing/disabling those features and testing again. Unfortunately, there is likely not much you can do about that 5ghz interference. I'm looking for undocumented firmware changes for either that might help.

--Derrek

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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi


@dleute wrote:

This is interesting. I have no 5ghz sonos devices, but this seems like a distinct possibility. However, it should only be a problem when using those devices in their surround sound modes (5.1 surround sound). Possibly with stereo pairs (don't see info on this).

If you have these, I would suggest unpairing/disabling those features and testing again. Unfortunately, there is likely not much you can do about that 5ghz interference. I'm looking for undocumented firmware changes for either that might help.

--Derrek


I have the playbar paired with two Play:3s for surround sound, and paired with a Sub. When I powered off those devices, the backhaul speed maxed out.  Two older Play:5s with no 5 GHz remained as a stereo pair, with no impact.

 

When I get time I will try your suggestion and see if unpairing removes the interference.

 

I don't consider this is a bug or incompatibility.  It's just a consequence of having multiple devices operating on 5 GHz.  If would be optimal, however, if you could set Sonos and Orbi to use non-overlapping freuqencies the 5 GHz band.  I think Sonos might scan and dynamically assign 5 GHz channels, but I'm not sure when and if it does this.

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Apprentice

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

There are two ranges of 5ghz channels. If it is the public side (not the backhaul), you can control that on Orbi and might be able to reduce interference. (channels 36->52 or so, however I can't find what channel range sonos 5ghz would select) But the backhaul uses the higher range I believe where we have no control (100->140 or so). If Sonos does the same they will both need to work it out amongst themselves.

I agree this would be considered standard multi-network interference. It's just life with a busy wifi network. This would be much more prevelant in an apartment setting where different 5ghz (and 2.4ghz) networks are everywhere.

Obviously, the last option is to not use 5.1 surround. That would be unacceptable to me if I bought Sonos as a surround system. But it's good to know Sonos may create interference in surround mode.

--Derrek

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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

In my testing there was no impact to the public side.  Sonos ON = Sonos OFF = maximum speed.  The only impact was to the Orbi backhaul. Plus my Sonos devices are not using WiFi.

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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

Yeah my results are poor on the public side. One explaination may be if the Orbi backhaul is already operating close to my maximum internet speed of 120mb/s, then Sonos standard network interference may effect the backhaul enough to drop my speed. 

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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi


@Dynamiteboy wrote:

Yeah my results are poor on the public side. One explaination may be if the Orbi backhaul is already operating close to my maximum internet speed of 120mb/s, then Sonos standard network interference may effect the backhaul enough to drop my speed. 


Are you playing music from an Internet source, or from a wireless device (like your phone or a media server that's wireless to Orbi) when doing your testing?

 

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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

Playing music through the spotify integration in Sonos via a phone, speed testing wirlessly on a laptop in the same room. Drops as low as 20mb/s-80mb/s out of 120mb/s recently. Music resides and Sonos app is closed, internet speeds hop back up to 120 and do not go all over the place.

 

Jonathan

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Apprentice

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

One other thought: My macbook would jump to 2.4 when it thought 5ghz wasn't a good option (or was band steered there possibly). That lead to similar speed issues since 2.4 is so much slower.

Verify that the laptop is staying on 5ghz. And if it is, maybe force it to 2.4ghz to see if you find the same instability.

I have a hard time believing you are seeing this issue based on interference on the Orbi backhaul. For me, the backhaul has been obscenely fast no matter what else is going on. (It's a 4x4 mu-mimo capable backhaul with througput in Gbps ranges). The testing above shows that even a 75mbps drop should be negligible for the backhaul. It certainly wouldn't bring outside internet access down to 20-80mbps. That makes me think the 5gz wifi really is on the client side of Orbi not the backhaul side. In which case you could try moving the 5gz channel on orbi. This is more believable given Sonos networks are so mesh focused and re-broadcast crazy. If it does the same with 5ghz, then the spectrum would be swamped, but 4x4 backhaul really should be able to deal with that while 2x2 client side could see issues.

That's my current thoughts. It just seems odd.

--Derrek

Message 97 of 149
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Master

Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi


@Dynamiteboy wrote:

Playing music through the spotify integration in Sonos via a phone, speed testing wirlessly on a laptop in the same room. Drops as low as 20mb/s-80mb/s out of 120mb/s recently. Music resides and Sonos app is closed, internet speeds hop back up to 120 and do not go all over the place.

 

Jonathan


 

Please clarify, and this is very important.  Are you playing Spotify using the Spotify app on your phone, or are you playing it throught the Sonos Contorller App.

 

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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi

I used both, and it seemed to exibit issues with both, but let me verify. I also played music with Sonos app via Mac and saw the speed drops.

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Re: SONOS Compatability with Orbi


@dleute wrote:

One other thought: My macbook would jump to 2.4 when it thought 5ghz wasn't a good option (or was band steered there possibly). That lead to similar speed issues since 2.4 is so much slower.

Verify that the laptop is staying on 5ghz. And if it is, maybe force it to 2.4ghz to see if you find the same instability.

I have a hard time believing you are seeing this issue based on interference on the Orbi backhaul. For me, the backhaul has been obscenely fast no matter what else is going on. (It's a 4x4 mu-mimo capable backhaul with througput in Gbps ranges). The testing above shows that even a 75mbps drop should be negligible for the backhaul. It certainly wouldn't bring outside internet access down to 20-80mbps. That makes me think the 5gz wifi really is on the client side of Orbi not the backhaul side. In which case you could try moving the 5gz channel on orbi. This is more believable given Sonos networks are so mesh focused and re-broadcast crazy. If it does the same with 5ghz, then the spectrum would be swamped, but 4x4 backhaul really should be able to deal with that while 2x2 client side could see issues.

That's my current thoughts. It just seems odd.

--Derrek


 

I agree Derrek, I doubt it is the backhaul that is effected. I have setup Orbi's in the past and these ones are not obscenely far away from eachother. The backhaul is most likely very high still. I can change the Orbi 5ghz channel, I beleive there are only a few options though for it. Off to test more this week! About the just move to a Unifi solution though... Probably should have done this in the first place as the house has wired drops already....

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