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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Some Updates on the new Beta.

Unfortunately I encountered the occasional wifi drops but it's not as frequent as before.
I was in the same room as the router and I observed that prior to wifi drop, my mobile device will show very erratic wifi signal strength. Upon wifi drop, it reconnects back almost immediately however.

Hence the new Beta is still not perfect yet.

Message 176 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Thanks for sharing your experience!

I loaded up the new beta today and so far everything is great.

I made sure my orbi (AP mode) is on static ip like before and haven't had any drops on wireless or wired. I'll keep monitoring my experience and share if anything interesting or of value occurs!

Message 177 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'


@marshymallow wrote:


I was in the same room as the router and I observed that prior to wifi drop, my mobile device will show very erratic wifi signal strength. Upon wifi drop, it reconnects back almost immediately however.

that suggests your device is roaming from sat to router etc , how close is the sat as it could be too much overlap and thats why the client device is going crazy

 

use something like inSSIDer and check out the db levels of the router and sat if standing in the same room as the router and the sat is else where the sat signal should be -60-70db or above

 

its a fine balance to get the backhaul connected well and not overlapping the transmissions

 

i fine that about 15 meters and a wall or so away is the best distance between router and sat

Message 178 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

It's also possible his device could be switching between 2.4 and 5ghz on the router itself? Or does the satellite do 2.4 and the router doesn't? I seen my wifi signal bar go down occasionally but comes back up without experiencing a disconnect.

Message 179 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'


@peteytesting wrote:

@marshymallow wrote:


I was in the same room as the router and I observed that prior to wifi drop, my mobile device will show very erratic wifi signal strength. Upon wifi drop, it reconnects back almost immediately however.

that suggests your device is roaming from sat to router etc , how close is the sat as it could be too much overlap and thats why the client device is going crazy

 

use something like inSSIDer and check out the db levels of the router and sat if standing in the same room as the router and the sat is else where the sat signal should be -60-70db or above

 

its a fine balance to get the backhaul connected well and not overlapping the transmissions

 

i fine that about 15 meters and a wall or so away is the best distance between router and sat


 

I do not think that was the case for me.

I was in the room for quite awhile and merely 10feet from the router.

The sattelite is located outside at the living room that is easily more than twice the distance away.

My mobile device was already showing strong signal in the room and i was streaming watching some videos on Facebook at that time.

I noticed the wifi icon on the notification bar started showing signal drop and up and down a few times followed by the wifi disconnect and reconnect again.

Message 180 of 266
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Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I had to downgrade from the latest beta for the same reason. It was a disaster. Normally it's just the backhaul that drops but on the beta, the actual 2.4 and 5Ghz signals were dropping and disconnecting every device.
Message 181 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

In the same boat. Installed latest beta this morning (after a 5 days vacation). Noticed 2.4G and 5G dropping every 30 seconds with my WIFI Explorer app. Most clients seem to be holding on, which may be due to buffers if the drops are less than 1-2 seconds. But my iPhones drops every 10-15, switches to LTE, then back to WIF, then back to WIFI-Calling, then drops again…Repeat.

 

This is a joke!

 

Things are going backward, not forward.

 

And, to make matters worse! I have an alarm system that uses cellular and WIFI. I never checked the panel. It’s been dropped from my WIFI for 8 weeks. Connected back to Orbi, came back 60 minutes later, DROPPED! The panel doesn’t try to re-connect, it switches to its cellular radio per design. Changed the Panel back to my ASUS RT3200 (which handles my IP Cameras). 5 Hours SOLID! No drops.

 

So that is three wireless solutions Netgear.

 

  1. IP Cameras – They can’t work with Orbi. They drop every 30-60 seconds. Makes them somewhat useless. But they work perfectly on my ASUS RT3200.
  2. My Alarm System which uses WIFI as preferred, cellular as backup. Thank GOD for the Cellular. Alarm Panel doesn’t like your Orbi, but likes the ASUS with no problems.
  3. Wireless user clients (iPhones, iPads, Macbooks, Smart TVs, etc). The only device I have that doesn’t seem to drop is the Macbook Pro 2016. All other clients just cannot hang on.

 

Using your latest firmware.

Message 182 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

peteytesting,

 

Would it not be easier if Netgear would expose the backhaul connection signal strength and actual MCS rate? This way we could have a more intelligent method to properly place the satellite(s) and router?

 

Yes, it is viable to use a third-party device to measure the signal at a specific location, but given the Orbi may have a different response to the location chosen, regardless of the third-party device info. It may not work. Plus this assumes everyone has a third-party tool, and knows how to use it.

 

Have we not requested this ability 50 times over the past months?

 

As for overlap. If they are properly using band and client steering, would it not be a practical assumption that overlap would not, and should not, be a problem?

 

Would it not be useful to implement STP (Spanning Tree) if not using steering? Would it not be useful to allow users to disable client steering as most other OEMs allow?

 

Netgear “CHOSE” to make a complicated product, with a goal of simplicity. Clearly their strategy is not working.

 

Seriously, not argumentative. Am I being unrealistic?

 

To another poster’s comment that most users are most likely having our problems, but lack the technical understanding of the root cause, and are probably yelling at their ISPs and other service providers. Would it not be wise for Netgear to expose the “technical” settings and information of Orbi to help overcome these problems?

 

Does Netgear really believe at this point that Orbi is “SIMPLE”?

 

I have 2 Beta versions provided, and still no resolve, and still no changes to the GUI which enables some of our suggestions.

 

This is reminding me of some stubborn developers I have worked with on past projects. They are determined to make some bug loaded product/application work which is causing mass problems for users, and despite engineers and architects telling them to roll back to a working version, or move to a different strategy, they would rather everyone suffer until weeks, or months, later they MIGHT figure it out.

Message 183 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Actually, I think this focus on "not too much overlap" etc is misguided. There will by design always be regions with signal overlap and it must be properly handled. The main point would be to not steer a client to the other station unless the accumulated signal difference over time is large enough (that is, normal hysteresis algorithm commonly used for e.g. heat regulation). So one should not need a more intelligent method to place the units, the current "bad, ok, good" should/must be good enough...

 

 

Message 184 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Well, I received a call from Netgear and had a delightful conversation.

 

Let us HOPE they are truly listening to, and understand, what we are saying.

 

I told them on the call, JUNE, that is when I am DONE. I do not intend to burn my summer testing betas for them.

 

1 attempt, 2 attempt, 3 attempt, 4…How many betas will it take for them to change their path.

 

5 firmware releases in 2 months. 2 Betas. Not a single suggestion we have provided has been implemented. And still I must disable my WIFI on my devices when stability is required.

Message 185 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Rolling back to previous beta. Sent debug logs to Netgear. You should all read your debug logs.

Message 186 of 266
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Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Any interesting findings in the logs?
Message 187 of 266
Highlighted
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Yeah, "ERR" (Errors), and Steering.

 

Lots of Errors....

 

Orbi has proven useless for WIFI-Calling, I have been forced to move my security system to my older ASUS, along with my IP Cameras. Watching "House of Cards" last night, AppleTV DISCO...WIFI Dropped.

 

Going to roll back to the older Beta tonight when family goes down. PRAY!

 

HOPE! That Netgear gets their heads out of their butt and does what we tell them to do.

 

Netgear,

 

ALLOW DISABLE STEERING

EXPOSE THE RSSI AND MCS of connect clients, AND BACKHAUL

ALLOW SEPERATION OF SSID 2G and 5G

 

LISTEN!!!!!

 

Smiley Mad

 

 

Message 188 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I feel your pain Flash008. I too am on the latest beta and disconnects on all WiFi devices has been a nightmare. I've noticed issues even with my wired Amazon Fire TV which is wired but connected to the Orbi router. I've noticed errors as well in the debug log.

I've just about had it. Working from a home office and on WiFi in the house has proven to be very difficult. Nothing like being on a Webex and you lose both audio & video. It's ridiculous!

And then I hear it from my wife & kids..."The WiFi is down....again!"
Message 189 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I'm still shocked mine is so stable. Are you guys the exception or am I? I'm still running the production firmware. Love to know what the difference is. Is it too many competing networks close by? I can only see a few.

I just added another lg tv and a couple more heos wifi speakers and a nvidia ahield pro. No disconnects at all that I can tell.
Message 190 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

tubastank,

 

Yep,

 

I work from home. I require working internet and wireless all day. Wife and kids too. For the past 2 year I have been using T-Mobile (I know, HAHA). But, when using WIFI-Calling, not only does T-Mobile coverage no longer matter, but your iPhone battery life gets MUCH better. With Orbi, I must disable WIFI completely due to drops which are guaranteed with Orbi. I require 3-4 30, maybe 60 minutes or longer WebeX work calls. But Orbi will not last that long. 10-15 minutes if I am lucky.

 

Sometimes, my iPhone will saying “calling” for 10-15 seconds, the “call failed”, immediately when my WIFI drops and the phone switches back to T-Mobile’s network. NETGEAR, I CAN’T EVEN MAKE A PHONE CALL WITH YOUR ORBI. REALLY???? iPhone works PERFECTLY with T-Mobiles network and when using ANY OTHER WIFI!

 

Disabling WIFI puts my iPhones back into 4G or LTE and eats my battery for breakfast, lunch and dinner in 4 hours or less. Makes me sad. Before Orbi, I could use my WIFI-Calling for all my work calls, and still have 20 percent battery left.

 

I keep thinking I need to switch the iPhone to my ASUS, but then I think…if I must move all my devices to my ASUS, then why do I have Orbi.

 

The newest beta is not good. The older beta was better. Now I must cash in another 20-30 minutes and roll back. But I know the problems will remain. Hopefully a little less.

 

Between posting to this forum, replying to private Netgear messages, loading new firmware’s, rolling back firmware’s. Testing, diagnosing, and time spent dealing with client devices that can’t have a stable WIFI connection with Orbi…I am roughly 80-100 hours technically invested. For a product that was promised to be quality and SIMPLE.

 

Maybe we ask for payment or free products. I mean, their Dev team is being paid for this. But I paid well near $600 to Netgear, and now I “WORK FOR THEM”?

 

Today is June 1. Today, or this weekend, I begin my search for the Orbi replacement. I will most likely purchase whatever I choose within 1-2 weeks. Trial it, test it, play with it, etc.

 

If Netgear doesn’t provide a working firmware by mid-end of June. My next Netgear and Orbi interaction will be “factory Reset”, and Post to EBay.

 

Sorry for the rambling. Long day, and Orbi is exhausting me. Causing depression.

 

Thanks Netgear.

Message 191 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Ts937km,

 

I am happy for you. Really, I am.

 

As for possible interference and/or bad locations, etc, etc.

 

 

I have an ASUS RT3200 currently running my 6 IP Cameras and now my security system without a single drop. It ran my entire home for over a year without a SINGLE problem. Yes, it looks a bit ugly. My wife and visiting friends would ask, “What’s that?” Not in a pleasing way either.

 

But it worked!

 

My remaining 1 of 2 RT3200s is parked 3 feet from the Orbi Satellite. Only location I could use.

 

I have disabled the RT3200 5G radios to avoid ANY Orbi 5G interference. I have parked the Orbi 2G on Channel 4. ASUS parked at channel 11. No overlap! 20Mhz ONLY! And Orbi had these problems before I re-introduced my ASUS because Orbi was droping my IP Cameras every 30 seconds. So Netgear should make NO ATTEMPT to blame the ASUS.

 

Yes, I live near other humans with WIFI. Roughly 7-10 competing APs.

 

BUT, My ASUS handled it without problems for over a year. Never showed any concerns of the competing wireless APs near me.

 

I chose Orbi because it looked better visually, promised simplicity, and quality. I felt Netgear was going to give me the best of TWO WORLDS. The quality and awesomeness of ASUS I had come to know, but the beauty and simplicity that Netgear promised.

 

My brother-in-law, which I gave my second RT3200 to, after buying Orbi, has had it for 6 months. I just spent 4 days in his 3500SF home. ONE ASUS RT3200 for his WHOLE HOME! NOT ONE PROBLEM. I sat at his dinner table to do some work. WOW! WIFI-Calling fast and stable for 4-5 hours. No drops on ANYTHING!

 

So, to say that Orbi cannot handle the same conditions that my two ASUS RT3200s handled for over 1 year in my home. And now, one of them, is handling itself perfectly in another home with more than 20 BSSIDs competing.

 

Ummm…..Sorry…Not buying it.

Message 192 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Hey Flash!

Sorry to hear you're having such a terrible experience with the orbi. Like you I too had many issues with mine. However, with a little tinkering I've managed to stabilize the orbi and wifi calling works properly with little to no drops.

I'm definitely not as technical as you are so I apologize if I'm giving you advice you may have already tried.

I had read on different postings that the orbi router seemed to keep losing its ip connection and that somebody out the router on a static ip and it improved performance significantly. I'm assuming you're running the orbi in AP mode so maybe try giving the router a static ip?

It's worked wonders for me. The only time I notice drops is when my device is switching between the router and the satellite. This seems to occur more when I'm in close proximity to the satellite. I'm not too sure why my mobile device likes to hop between 2.4 and 5 when I'm right next to the satellite but it happens so rarely that I'm okay with it until they improve the firmware.

I hope you're willing to give it a shot because I honestly have no clue why it helped but it has helped me.

Best of luck and pls keep us posted on what device you switch your orbi too!
Message 193 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

On a side note, my router is in my basement (where my office is) and the satellite is on the second floor of the home. I wish I could place them even farther apart but my kids radio monitors cause a lot of interference so I can't separate them more.

I've found that the farther apart they are, the better the device seems to function and the theoretical distance they advertise is not far enough apart for the orbi to function correctly which is odd.

Anyhoo, I'm not sure why these devices function the way they do as I'm no where near as technical as many of you but as a person that likes to tinker with tech, I've found a good compromise to make the system usable with little to no troubleshooting required to keep the network up for the whole family.
Message 194 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Thanks guys for listening to my rants. Long and tough day. Time for a drink, and time to visit the family and stop stressing over Orbi.

 

Malik2k1, to answer your question. I run in AP mode. I have a Sophos Firewall which gives me REAL SECURITY.

 

I will give it the month of June, and then I am DONE!

 

For those of you whom Orbi works for. ENJOY. I guess I pulled the short straw.

Message 195 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I am in router mode as well.  In bypass mode through att fiber/uverse router. 

 

The 3 nodes are 35-40ft apart. Main unit is in the basement middle of the house.  The other 2 units are at opposite directions on the main level of the house. 

 

1 - rbr50 and 2 rbs50

 

Good luck.   To be honest If I were you I would have thrown in the towel a long time ago and just bought something else. 

Message 196 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

One final note. I am confident the problem is Orbi Steering. But they will not give the option to disable it.

 

But maybe I wrong.

 

Maybe this is similar the Arris cable modem chipset problem.

 

For over 1 year Arris denied there was a high latency problem with their product. Imagine all the consumers yelling at their ISPs and spending countless hours troubleshooting.

 

But, a very talented RF semiconductor engineer began posting results with his test on dslreports website. Suddenly 100s of people began to realize they were not alone. And shortly after Arris jumped in and had this guy help them fix it.

 

Turns out, Arris knew it all along. It was a known issue with the Intel chip used.

 

Intel and Arris new about this MONTHS before, but didn’t want to acknowledge it.

 

I guess I should be happy Netgear at least admits it.

Message 197 of 266
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Guru

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'


@Flash008 wrote:

One final note. I am confident the problem is Orbi Steering. But they will not give the option to disable it.

 

 

Flash, if the issue is band steering ( in my limited knowledge ) wouldn't a simple test would be to turn off one side AND/OR lowering one output level so the two bands are equalized in area penetration ? 

 

I do know NG is working on the problems, I myself had IOS dropout ( older unit with os 9.3.5 ) and Andriod phone battery draining issues ( S7 with os 7 )

The latest version of the debug FW ( 1.11.0.2 ) has fixed my issues without any other changes... when this gets approved it will prob be realeased and should make Orbi better

--------------------------------------
Morse is faster than texting!
--------------------------------------
Message 198 of 266
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

TomMac,

 

I appreciate your advice. However, this was one of the first things myself and many others tried.

 

1. I have powered off the satellite and noticed a dramatic improvement. With exception that now half of my home had poor WIFI signal give the location of the router.

 

2. I have tried dropping power levels. Didn't help, actually created more problems.

 

3. Tried different locations of both router and satellite. Problems continue.

 

After review of the logs there is one consistent action Orbi takes. That is to steer clients back to the router if the RSSI is -70 or better. The problem (I beleive this is caused by) is modern devices have been dramatically improved to roam between APs. For Apple devices the threshold hold is -75db, and will trigger mandatory search for a stronger AP. If your signal is -70 or better the Apple device prefers to stay on the AP it is using to avoid connection disruptions switching to other APs.

 

Now, Apple devices WILL switch to a stronger AP if the connection is idle, or if the AP is PROPERLY advertising flags indicating the Apple device can safety switch APs without disruption. Advanced Multi-AP setups usually implement STP and other features to assist. Apple, and others, have implemented code to "test" a stronger AP before choosing to switch.

 

The problem Orbi "seems" to be suffering is Apple devices not agreeing with the Orbi algorithm for band and/or AP node steering. This is the SAME problem ASUS and others who released Tri-Mode APs almost 2 years ago suffered. The original ASUS RT3100 and 3200 algarothm SUCKED and caused massive disconnects. BUT, ASUS left the code OPEN so users could ADJUST it to thier environment. And after a few minutes of Internet forum reviews TECH NERDS provided adjusted settings and screen shots which non techies could use, and guess what....PROBLEM SOLVED. Of course ASUS released updates to improve it, but they KNEW they needed to leave it OPEN for users to adjust. No one size fits all!

 

Netgear doesn't seem to get it....

 

 

 

 

Message 199 of 266
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Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I'd like to believe Netgear is working on this too but if you look back through the threads, these exact issues were happening 8 months ago. This is their flagship device for home networking and it's a complete lemon!

Flash008, your results after turning off the satellite correspond exactly with the backhaul dropping issue due to bad hardware. Have you installed an app like Wi-Fi analyzer and watched your backhaul? I guarantee you it looks like an EKG.

I hope Netgear enjoys their good sales, because they are creating a ton of customers like myself that will never be ripped off by their products again.
Message 200 of 266
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