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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

 

Pete,

Thank You.

I stand corrected. I only learned of ASUS Hive in the past week. You are correct. It has been renamed Lyra. Thank You.

You are also correct that the release date has been moved to Q3. Something "Maybe" Orbi should have done.

But, what you shared with me tonight, only made me smile (with sadness) that the websites/forums with those talking about Lyra, are also talking about Orbi and how it will compare. But one common topic I JUST READ was people who chose Orbi because they didn't want to wait for Lyra, is how many problems they are having with Orbi. Seems Orbi's problems are not limited to this Netgear thread.

However, I must disagree with you concerning your comments about "not accepting Orbi as it was designed". Contrary to your comments, I FULLY accept Orbi as it was designed. Steering and ALL! But, I think I am not alone, not just with Orbi, but with ANY product I purchase that it should WORK AS DESIGNED.

I am not asking Netgear for a re-design. Only that they:

1. Accept that Orbi has severe problems which MAY (I believe) be related to Steering.
2. Accept that Auto Updates may not CURRENTLY be the best option for Orbi given Netgear's poor track record for quality updates.
3. Allow users to disable some of these features that clearly are not compatible with all customers.

Imagine if your Car OEM forced your AC to be locked at 75 degrees. WHY? Because they feel that all thier customers should fit within their perceived opinion. And they based this decision on countless months of research. And, for the most part, they are correct. Most are happy. But then there are those who want 70, or 80 degrees. But they have no option. And to add salt to that pain, the AC is malfunctioning and sometimes doesn't work, and sometimes it feels colder or warmer than it should, etc, etc.

Are you saying that I should accept the vehicle as designed because I knew it was locked at 75 degrees, even though the AC does not properly maintain that temp?

Are you saying I am asking too much for the OEM to unlock the temp control and allow me to set a desired temp for my needs, at least until they FIX the AC problem?

If this is what you are saying, then my reply would be, "Please give me a refund". WHY? Because I did accept your 75 degree lock-in (even if I didn't agree with it), but it doesn't work as you promised (designed it to). And now you are telling me that must tolerate your malfunctioning AC for MONTHS until you fix your mistake(s), rather than unlocking the temp control and allowing me to find what works for me.

Hard work, or not, by the Dev team. Doesn't matter. I have 20 years of I.T. Background with engineering and architecture. If something I designed and implemented was causing massive Helpdesk calls. My bosses would be all over me. And if I told them, Deal with it, until I fix it...And this went on for MONTHS. Ummm...I don't think I would have my job much longer.

The better response would have been for me to say, "Yes, something isn't working right. Please allow me time to find and fix the problem. But, in the mean time, here is a workaround that will allow users to adjust settings to thier needs allow for less Helpdesk calls".

Most companies I have worked with would accept my answer. Not yours...

 

Message 226 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

im saying if you are unhappy by all means get a refund and go else where but expect the same and expect the same disapointment when say even the asus is the same

 

band steering and ap steering are a part of how mesh and DW systems work

 

auto updating also seems to be the new norm by most manufactures

 

no one really knows apart from the asus dev team what in the lyra and what it actually does and how it does it

 

i expect its bluetooth setup and has both band steering and ap steering and one ssid and onlt 867M

 

dont get me wrong i like asus gear and i have a lot of it , but dont build your hopes on something that cant be that different

 

pete

 

 

Message 227 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Hi Flash008,

 

to to address your three points:

 

1. This is obviously accepted as they both have written in the forums that they are working on it, as well is providing multiple beta firmwares working with customers to try to deeply resolve all underlying issues (such a complex set of different behaviors usually have more than one root cause, as I'm sure you have experienced with your long track record of working with "IT") 

 

2. This may already be addressed by not rolling out the current beta half baked, it seems they are trying to be very careful to get it right this time. Another good approach is staged rollouts which I hope they already employ as it is a best practice for any large scale rollout of software. 

 

3. They do support that for things where it makes sense, like beam forming and similar settings. But as pointed out, steering is kind of a fundamental property for a wifi system with this kind of topology and even though it may well be the problem, I'd rather see the engineering team analyze the root causes properly and then make an assessment of what is needed to fix it fundamentally. 

 

I also have have a long history of architecting and developing large scale software systems for over 25 years and the behavior I see here more closely correlates to that the issue was not properly escalated until fairly recently and that proper engineering resources only recently was assigned to work on and resolve this properly. Likely due to finishing of the new line of smaller devices. Thus, I assist in the troubleshooting actively and give them the benefit of the doubt for one-two more firmware releases as I think they now finally are working on it actively and seriously. (I have reasons to believe a significant improvement will happen with the next public update, at least for my environment)

 

If it is not resolved after that though, I'd look at options, but I am very hopeful now actually. 

 

 

Message 228 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Pete,

 

If I could get a refund, I WOULD. Believe me!

 

But I can't.

 

With the fire sale of Orbi on Ebay, I would take a 40-50 percent hit verses what I paid.

 

If Netgear wants to give me a refund, so maybe I go away and they don’t need to hear from me anymore. SURE. Make me that offer and I will disappear from this forum. They can make me that offer “secretly”.

 

But, so long as no such offer is made, and I am unwilling to take a 50 percent loss with my investment. Sorry, I intend to hold Netgear accountable for a product that is not working as designed. Any OEM should expect to be held to a minimal standard. And Netgear is no exception.

 

I am very aware of steering and its requirements. But as any knowledgeable person will tell you (should you not know), it is NOT a requirement, but rather an “enhancement”. But it only “enhances” if it is implemented correctly. I have worked with a few commercial WIFI systems, and band and client steering is always a selectable feature. Not mandated.

 

Netgear should allow this feature to be disabled until they get it right.

 

As for auto-updating. Same response. Option to disable is needed for Orbi.

 

The fact Netgear refuses to make these changes communicates only one thing.

 

We don’t care.

 

Other OEMs, such as Ubiquiti. They got it wrong. Steering wasn’t working well. They knew it, admitted it, and pushed an update to disable it until fixed. And so many other OEMs do this all the time. WHY? Because they care.

 

You don’t tell your customers to “Deal with it”.

 

You do whatever it takes to keep the peace, show quality in service, support, product and overall experience. Most customers can be, and usually are, understanding to technology product problem. And they will forgive, so long as you show YOU CARE.

 

How many Netgear responses to this thread have we received? I mean, real, meaningful, responses. Where is the Dev team on this thread? Interacting with us. Working with us. Not just some low-level support rep emailing us links to beta code.

 

There are some REALLY smart people on this forum. If they worked with us, we would most likely have these problems resolve by now. But Netgear seems to be an antique waterfall organization. They really need to catchup and move to an agile approach.

Message 229 of 266
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Apprentice
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I think Netgear is handling the Orbi product and us customers really bad.
The issues discussed here have been known to them for a very long time and they haven’t manage to sort them out yet.
I think Netgear needs to put different people, maybe even take help from people outside Netgear, to solve them once and for all.

It’s ridiculous that an expensive product like Orbi still doesn’t work good and as intended.

It’s a long time since Netgear could sit back and say that it’s a new device and that all new devices have issues...
Message 230 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

That I do agree with, this is a hygiene factor that needs to be fully addressed, cooperating with e.g.  Apple or google as required to sort out device or so specific issues fully. 

Message 231 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

flash

 

you will get what you paid for it as thats how the rma process works

 

get the ball rolling rma wise and if you dont have any luck let me know and i will do what i can for you to get it through

 

its not netgear wanting to give you a refund but you do have a right to get a refund if you think the product doesnt do what you bellieved it was advertised as or has high end failures that prevent it working as described

 

thats all i can help you with other wise plz continue to rant without any cause of erffect

 

pete

Message 232 of 266
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Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

If only getting a refund was that easy. Netgear support is painful to deal with. I truly feel like all the stuff they have you do with logs and testing are to make you give up and close your case.

I certainly didn't realize I was buying a product with a broken backhaul that was going to be a connection dropping disaster when I purchased it. Netgear straight up told me they don't do refunds and Best Buy told me to go through Netgear.
Message 233 of 266
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Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

@Retired_Member

 

i can assure this is changing and we can now help you if you need help with that process

 

and i can asure you wont have to deal with level 1 support if you help us understand your issue and we can take it from there .

 

i can assure you the rma process works and best buys have to deal with it

 

if you have further issues plz msg me direct and i will follow it up for you

 

pete

Message 234 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Pete,

 

Your attitude stinks.  It is a sign of the incompetence that prevails at Netgear.  You should be replaced with someone who is more attuned to "Customer Service".  It appears to me that your company needs a complete overhaul before these problems and attitudes get out to the general public.  If I was your manager, you would be terminated immediately.

Message 235 of 266
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Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'


auto updating also seems to be the new norm by most manufactures
by all means get a refund and go else where but expect the same and expect the same disapointment











 

As for auto update I disagree, especially in networking gear. And absolutely not in enterprise class network gear. But for argument's sake, let's say it's accurate. A company's competitors choosing poor business practices does not justify them doing so, unless your goal is to create a bad reputation for your company/products.

 

 

Message 236 of 266
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Best wishes too all who continue to have problems and have decided to stick with it.  My patience with Netgear Support has grown thin.  I grew tired of the "please send us this, please send us that" asks and when I asked several times for feedback on what I sent in and didn't receive a response, I knew it was a lost cause.

 

I bought my Orbi RBK53 at Costco in December 2016 and I'm estatic that I kept my receipt and that Costco has an awesome return policy.  Not only did I get my entire purchase price of $535 back, there were no questions asked excecpt for "is it broken or did you not like it"?  I am now back to my Apple Airport Extreme.  It's in the same location as where the Orbi router was after I moved it upstairs to our main level and all satellites were unplugged.  Ping times seem to be very stable, no packet loss and so far, no disconnects.  Hopefully moving this upstairs to our main level will provide us what we need for Wifi coverage throughout our house where I don't have to search for another "mesh" system.

 

I hope those that continue to struggle find a resolution that is satisfactory and in short time.

 

Best to all.

Message 237 of 266
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Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Good luck tubastank! Thanks for the info Pete, I am curious, do you know at what level of support you actually get to talk to an employee of Netgear? I am currently on Level 3 support and I am still dealing with an employee of Concentrix in the Phillipines. I'm sure it is a huge black mark on the Concentrix record if they have to send a case to Netgear but seriously does this company not care at all?

The level 3 tech just now sent me new beta firmware, this time from a password protected page and it is v1.10.1.2-db0607. Is that even a new beta FW? I thought the last one I tried was 1.11 or 1.12.

Message 238 of 266
Highlighted
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Good luck Tub,

 

I am 30 seconds behind you.

 

Take the time you spent dealing with Orbi problems. Add it up.

 

Now, determine the level of effort and time needed to run an Ethernet cable between two locations with your Airports.

 

Now you have Orbi, only an Orbi not made by Netgear, and something that works. No steering, no WIFI backhaul issues, etc, etc.

 

Another busy work week ahead of me, but I think my credit card is about to buy me an Ubiquiti.

 

Though, I am very curious about ASUS Lyra. But waiting until Q3 with these Orbi problems....Tough sale. I wish ASUS would hurry up.

 

Good luck to you, and happy trails.

Message 239 of 266
Highlighted
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Bob,

 

WOW!

 

I just received a response from Netgear support today. Telling me there is not any new firmware.

 

The version you show must be a different build for the previous 1.10.x I am running.

 

Way to go Netgear. Does anyone in your support team really know what is going on, what betas exist, or don't?

 

Any response from ANYONE on the dev team?

 

Anyone at Netgear care?

 

It seems we now have 4 code levels in the wild. 1.10.x, 1.11.x, the recent GA release, and now a new build of 1.10.x.

 

And how is Netgear getting consistant results with thier customer running 4 versions, if not more?

 

Just asking.....

Message 240 of 266
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Retired_Member
Not applicable

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

"Take the time you spent dealing with Orbi problems. Add it up.

Now, determine the level of effort and time needed to run an Ethernet cable between two locations"

Lol and wow, that really hits home. Excellent point
Message 241 of 266
Highlighted
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Bob,

 

Just saying.

 

As I get older I realize now the very low value that humans attribute to "TIME". We count our dollars very closely and we are PICKY on how they are spent. But you can earn more dollars. You cannot earn more TIME.

 

Thankfully I work from home and I stay up late catching up on TV, emails and just relaxing for a few. So cashing in an hour on this forum is a wash, hence not wasted on Netgear.

 

But, when Netgear sends me "funny" requests to create Visio diagrams, and provide firmware and driver versions of ALL my devices, and log captures, etc, etc...

 

That is when I draw the line, unless they pay me for the time it would take. Converting time into money is OK most times. But when my time cannot be converted into something of value, then it is wasted, and that is not going to be allowed by me.

 

Wife, child, beach, eating, relaxing, friends, hobbies, etc....Far more important than Orbi.

Message 242 of 266
Highlighted
Initiate

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I am very disheartened by this thread.  I just ordered this from Costco.com after much reseach into Google WiFi, Plume, Amplify, etc. and now wonder if I should just return it without opening.  It sounds like everyone is having to disable features I specifically bought this one over the others for.

 

Should I just return it, and if so, what would you recommend then?  I have a 3 story 4200 sqft home where the internet comes in in the front corner of the middle floor.  I feel like it is going to be hard to reach the entire house.

 

On a side note, I am using the AV500 powerline by Netgear, and was replacing this solution because - my WiFi drops randomly!

Message 243 of 266
Highlighted
Master

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'


@netfixr wrote:

 


Should I just return it, and if so, what would you recommend then?  I have a 3 story 4200 sqft home where the internet comes in in the front corner of the middle floor.  I feel like it is going to be hard to reach the entire house.


 

You could try it first and be prepared to return it if it doesn't work for you.  I've heard that Costco has a liberal return policy.

 

Having Internet on the middle floor is ideal for a 3-floor home.

 

Orbi works fine for me and other people.  You need to consider that this board is frequented by people with problems, so there is a higher proportion of posters with problems.  Just because a lot of people post on here with problems does not mean the same proportion of Orbi owners have problems.

Message 244 of 266
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Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Netfixr...if you bought it at Costo you're safe. I bought mine in December 2016 and returned it yesterday. I was only asked "is it broken or did you not like it". Keep your receipt and you'll be fine to return whenever because they don't classify the Orbi as a computer so you can return it anytime.

Good luck.
Message 245 of 266
Highlighted
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Netflix,

 

As others have stated, Orbi does work for some, but not MANY others.

 

Your best bet is to try it, see how it goes.

 

If you begin noticing problems, such as disconnects and other problems reported on this thread, then don’t waste your time fighting it. You are not alone and no fix has been released at this time.

 

Then, make you decision. Keep it and hope Netgear resolves the problem(s). Or, return it.

 

It's that simple.

Message 246 of 266
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I will disagree and we have a few VERY vocal individuals that are having issues. In my experience people typically don't report good news or a normal working setup. Personally I would think if this was a big issue people would be flaming all the good reviews and editor choices and it would make all the tech blogs

Myself and several IT friends have the 3 pack units with no issues.

I have been out of town and haven't yet had time to test with a wifi analyzer. Too much work related work. Since I am not experiencing any kind of noticeable issues it's not a priority to be honest.
Message 247 of 266
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I have moved on and installed a Netgear X4S (R7800) router and put the Orbis in the box. I got tired of the problems so I gave up. I was well outside the return window so I can't return the the orbis anymore. The R7800 range isn't as good but at least it's stable.

Message 248 of 266
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'


@Ts937km wrote:
I will disagree and we have a few VERY vocal individuals that are having issues. In my experience people typically don't report good news or a normal working setup. Personally I would think if this was a big issue people would be flaming all the good reviews and editor choices and it would make all the tech blogs

Myself and several IT friends have the 3 pack units with no issues.

I have been out of town and haven't yet had time to test with a wifi analyzer. Too much work related work. Since I am not experiencing any kind of noticeable issues it's not a priority to be honest.

 

Ts937km,

 

I too am an IT professional with a couple decades under my belt and had the 3 pack from Costco.  When I initially unboxed it and set it up, it was running fine for a good 2-3 months.  I have what I would consider a normal setup.  About 3 wired devices, including a synology NAS and the remaining 18-20 are wireless, including a printer.  I don't have anything else besides my cable modem and a router, the Orbi at the time.  My house is 2 story with an unfinished basement and about 2600 square feet.

 

I can't recall when I initially flashed the satellites and router but it was most likely right after the initial setup it but I do remember everything started to go downhill after a specific flash some time later and continued flashing of the FW with newer public versions and beta versions did not help.  The last beta FW created so many problems I had to disconnect both satellites and go to the router alone.  Even with that I was experiencing dropped packets.  Not significant but noticable doing a constant ping and working from home this isn't good when trying to do Webex, etc.

 

Being asked by support to provide a network diagram and make and model of every device on my network is absurd.  I now have my previous Apple Airport Extreme connected and have been using it with all devices since yesterday and I haven't had one dropped packet and no disconnects.  The AAE is in the exact same location location as the Orbi router as well.

 

Bet wishes to you and others who aren't having the issues.

Message 249 of 266
Highlighted
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I think that all these mesh Network companies are starting to figure out that wireless isn't easy and why Enterprise wifi systems cost so much money.

Anyone else notice that some of those beta firmwares are disabling the mu-mimo and beam forming by default? It's interesting that they are having such issues with those settings.
Message 250 of 266
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