Reply

Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

tubastank
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Anyone figure out how to tell which sattelite your devices are now connected to?  Prior to firmware v1.9.1.12 one could check by doing the following.

 

1. Log into your Orbi router

2. Under the BASIC tab, select ATTACHED DEVICES

3. Select a connected device and on the next screen put your mouse cursor in the name field and click ENTER on your keyboard.

 

The screen will refresh and will show you which sattelite your devices are connected to.

 

With firmware v1.9.1.12 this no longer works.

Message 26 of 266

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

hi

 

does this still work

 

Go to the debug page and enable telnet

- Telnet into the router

- Execute the following:

 

nvram set enable_adv_attached=1
nvram commit

 

- Exit telnet

- Go to the debug page and disable telnet

 

go to the orbi attached device list , you should now see what is connected to what and what band they are connected to

 

Message 27 of 266
tubastank
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Peteytesting..thanks for the steps.  I'm now seeing what band (2.4G or 5G) that wach wireless device is connected to; however it isn't displaying what sattelite each device is connected to. 

Message 28 of 266

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

but you are seeing the sats and whats connected to each , yes they are not named differently buy you should be able to work out which sat is where and whats connected to it

 

 

Message 29 of 266
tubastank
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I see the sattelites but not what is connected to each.  This is what I see.

 

Connected Devices

Message 30 of 266
Ts937km
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I was just going to say.  Got rid of google wifi after their first major outage.  Now they just recently had a second.  It has to check in all the time.  If google is down so is your wifi.  No thanks.   Plus speeds were not good if you gave gigabit internet. 

 

Have yiu you turned off the satellite and just tried the main router.   Any disconnects?

 

or when it's all up.  Try the free Netspot for mac/windows or telstra wi-if Maximiser for the iPad.   And see if you have good coverage where you are. 

 

 

try this.   My ipads wifi was turning off when it slept.  And this fixed that.  Seems be an ongoing issues with iPads. 

 

Restart the iPad after renewing your IP address or resetting the Wi-Fi network settings. To restart the iPad, hold down the "Sleep/Wake" button. When the red slider appears, slide it to turn off the device. Hold the "Sleep/Wake" button again to turn on the iPad.

 

Also if you are using WEP.  Stop and switch to WPA.   WEP can cause disconnects. 

Message 31 of 266
Ely
Luminary
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

You can login into the satellite page and see which devices are connected to it, the rest are of course connected to the main unit, to login to the sat's page figure out what its IP address is by checking it out on the Orbi's attached devices page and then go open it with your browser, it will ask you for your Orbi's username/pass, once there click on "Attached Devices"

Message 32 of 266
tubastank
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Thanks for the workaround.

 

Netgear needs to get their act together.  Nothing like having to jump through hoops when the information should be on the "Attached Devices" page.  Just glad their not an automobile company.  We'd be told we have to disconnect the battery terminal cables every time we shutoff the car otherwise the battery would drain. 

Message 33 of 266
Ts937km
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Curious why you care which one the device is attached to? As long as performance is good? What are you trying to troubleshoot?

I'm just happy they are making real progress on the disconnect issue.
Message 34 of 266
fstockel
Star

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I'm still having WAN disconnects after upgrading to Firmware V1.9.1.12.

It's actually even worse than before (I think). Today alone I've had about 10 WAN disconnects (~15min each). I have sent debug logs to netgear and they are going to remote access the router to take a closer look at it (I've been having trouble for +4 months).

One can say that I'm not that far from replacing it with something else as it obviously doesn't work on Mondays, the Month of February, Thursday's before 9 o'clock or during happy hours on Fridays if my favorite team is on TV (or just with my ISP).











Message 35 of 266
Ts937km
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

That sucks.    I have not had one disconnect since the upgrade.  

 

All of my apple stuff is currently running the latest firmware except for my watch which is on a beta built. 

No other wifi on in my house. Disabled att uverse/gigabit wifi on their router. 

 

I have the the orbi router  and 2 satellites running 1.9.1.12.   Router in the middle of the basement.  Satellites about 40 ft away from the router. At each end of the house on the main level.   Only have about 20 devices connected to wifi.   Also have a ton of  zigbee, zwave and Arlo camera wireless running. 

 

Hopefully they will figure out something for you soon

 

 

 

 

 

 

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 36 of 266
rivets
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Moved the satellite to almost as far as is physically possible in the house from the router. No drop outs, so fingers crossed. Will try re-enabling beam forming etc. 

Message 37 of 266
Ts937km
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Hope so.

I read somewhere that beam forming was disabled last forming because of drop out issues. So I am going to leave it off for a bit.

I wonder if there is a way to tell optimal placement of the devices. To make sure the satellite has good connectivity. Would be a nice feature.
Message 38 of 266
ricblue
Tutor

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

My Orbi Base Station is upgraded to v1.9.1.12 BUT my two Satellites are both stuck on v1.8.0.6.    The "Check for Updates" button on the Orbi web UI (at 192.168.1.1) lists the two Satellites with the old v1.8.0.6 BUT shows "Please wait a moment' next to each and never offers the ability to upgrade them.

 

If I log into each Satellite (for me at 192.168.1.3 and .4) then I can only do a firmware update IF I can upload a file from my computer - BUT the v1.9.1.12 upgrade files aren't available on the Orbi Support website/downloads area.

 

Any thoughts?  My system seems reasonably stable but surely this isn't ideal, running different firmware versions on the Base vs Satellites.  v1.9.1.12 upgrade glitch if it didn't do the Satellites as well when the Base was updated??

 

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

 

Thanks!

Richard

Message 39 of 266
jxrxme
Star

Betreff: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stabilit

Wifi disconnects not fixed here with V1.9.1.12. Running Orbi in AP Mode. Turned down 2.4GHz transmit power to 25%. Implicit beamforming and mu mimo disabled.

 

Today 3 non-moving iOS devices got disconnected in 10 minutes, each 3 times! The devices were 1-3 meters from satellite away (in visual range).

 

I did some RSSI analysis: Seems that the devices get kicked out from 5GHz band while the signal is strong, but the 2.4GHz signal from identical Orbi is equal or slightly stronger. It seems not to be a steering problem between router and satellite since my signals are well separated (satellite client signals are strong while router client signals are very weak and vice versa). 
Turning down the transmit power of the 2.4GHz band to 25% helps for medium/long distance to the router/satellite as workaround, but not for narrow distances. Playing with the 2.4GHz transmit power "controls" at which distance the disconnects are typically happening.

 

So the root cause is a band steering bug between the 5 and 2.4GHz bands. Which is very disappointing for such expensive hardware, especially if you consider that client side band steering (without expensive hardware) works more reliable and Netgear didn't fix this bug for months (while very aware of the problem).

 

Slowly but surely I conclude that Netgear can't fix that problem and I should return the defective by design devices...

 

If all your devices support the 5GHz band I recommend disabling the 2.4GHz completely as a workaround (and if you don't need to cover the very far distance which 5GHz can't reach). I have some legacy devices so I can't turn it off.

Message 40 of 266
jxrxme
Star

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Wifi disconnects not fixed here with V1.9.1.12. Running Orbi in AP Mode. Turned down 2.4GHz transmit power to 25%. Implicit beamforming and mu mimo disabled. Today 3 non-moving iOS devices got disconnected in 10 minutes, each 3 times! The devices were 1-3 meters from satellite away (in visual range).

 

I did some RSSI analysis: Seems that the devices get kicked out from 5GHz band while the signal is strong, but the 2.4GHz signal from identical Orbi is equal or slightly stronger. It seems not to be a steering problem between router and satellite since my signals are well separated (satellite client signals are strong while router client signals are very weak and vice versa). Turning down the transmit power of the 2.4GHz band to 25% helps for medium/long distance to the router/satellite as workaround, but not for narrow distances. Playing with the 2.4GHz transmit power "controls" at which distance the disconnects are typically happening.

 

So the root cause is a band steering bug between the 5 and 2.4GHz bands. Which is very disappointing for such expensive hardware, especially if you consider that client side band steering (without expensive hardware) works more reliable and Netgear didn't fix this bug for months (while very aware of the problem).

 

Slowly but surely I conclude that Netgear can't fix that problem and I should return the defective by design devices...

 

If all your devices support the 5GHz band I recommend disabling the 2.4GHz completely as a workaround (and if you don't need to cover the very far distance which 5GHz can't reach). I have some legacy devices so I can't turn it off.

Message 41 of 266
tubastank
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'


@Ts937km wrote:
Curious why you care which one the device is attached to? As long as performance is good? What are you trying to troubleshoot?

I'm just happy they are making real progress on the disconnect issue.


Because knowing which unit (sat or router) your devices are connected to will help in troubleshooting.  I think you answered your own question. Smiley Happy  I personally haven't been having disconnects but I am having other issues.  Parental Controls & Airprint not staying persistent.  The more you know about your network the better position one is in troubleshooting.

 

This is basic information Netgear could be providing and it shouldn't take much to fix.

 

My Orbi system was purchased at Costco and consists of 1 Router and 2 Sattelites.  The Router is in my unfinished basement, connect to my cable modem (Cox Internet).  My main floor Orbi is probably 25 feet from the router (up next level and across the family room).  My Second floor Orbi is on the other side of the house and probably 40 feet away.  I could be wrong on the distance as I haven't measured but am estimating.  Transmit Power Control on the 2.4Ghz signal is set at 25%, 5Ghz 100%.  Implicit Beamforming & MU-MIMO are disabled.

Message 42 of 266
Cafetom
Star

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Hello all,

 

First time post,

 

I am a systems and network engineer, and pretty much a technology nerd.  I purchased my orbi in January 2017 to see what all the bells and whistles were about.  

 

To address the original question in this post and not hijack it, your wireless connection stability issues are shared by me.  I have been running several out-of-band tests and can reliably say that there are issues with connections and overall usability and functionality of the product.    I am running the 1.9.1.12 version on the RBS50

 

I had one engagement with tech support and when I provided some technical insight into the problem, they were having me jump through the flowchart to keep me busy.  "Have you turned it off and on again?  Did you wait the 35.2 seconds?  Let's reflash the firmware....and now again."    

 

I personally do wireless security cameras and weather stations.  The weather station reporting and the security cameras don't have a reliable or fast enough wireless connection to be useful.  I can barely do 1 fps with one camera.  

 

I have since added a $49 router outside of the orbi (in front of my orbi system) so that I can see if there is a difference.  The $49 router was limited in features but was able to get 10 fps on the camera and kept a 30 second connection update to the NWS and NOAH.  

 

The lack of any documentation in the releases is disturbing.  As a previous person mentioned....Where are these mystery documents?  I would expect that if it automatically downloads and installs, they could at least present a "What's new and fixed" section in the web interface.

 

Enable Implicit BEAMFORMING - Boosts WiFi speed, reliability, & range for all mobile devices
Enable MU-MIMO

 

While I appreicate what this says, I can with some certainty say that the first option is not needed in most newer setups.  Sounds impressive, isn't all that useful anymore.

 

Having used some of the nighthawk routers in the past, I must say that the orbi is a huge feature and functionality disappointment.  The only thing that is impressive with this is the simplicity and coverage area.

 

For all the others saying stuff about the firmware version, you are probably running into a lot of problems that we all are.  I'd suggest that you start another post/thread and file the bug.  

Message 43 of 266
Ts937km
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I have been In IT for a long time 25+ qt the current T job. so yes I agree. Was just curious.

My air print seems stable as well.

And I don't use parental controls so no issues there.

And what is the -db loss between your router and satellite? Can you tell that?

I wonder if you turned the closest one off if it would help. Mine really cleared up when I got them about 40 ft apart on different levels. So both satellites are about 80 ft apart. And about 40 ft from the central router.

I left 2.4 and 5 at 100%


Message 44 of 266
Ts937km
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

And an addition I migrated came from a single nighthawk 8000. My house is on a hill and external garage was having coverage issues.

Now that I have mine stable. This thing screams. Plex port forwarding and security cameras Arlo and a bunch of wifi cameras, Amazon fire boxes as well,
, ring doorbell, 6 echos etc. Everything working great.

Hope everyone else gets their systems stable soon as well.
Message 45 of 266
Flash008
Luminary

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

20 years of IT. Engineer and Architect. I am no idiot with how to setup my technology. But I thought Orbi would look better and "simplify" my home. As I get older I want less complications with tech stuff. But so far this Orbi is requiring FAR more effort than my previous ASUS WIFI setup with backhaul Ethernet.

 

Same story. Orbi has been a disappointment, and is unable to serve its most basic function as a wireless access point device.

 

3 Apple TVs

3 iPhones

3 iPads

2 Macbooks

6 IP Cameras

xBox -Ethernet

PS4 - Ethernet

 

iPhones - Constant disconnects. I use WIFI calling due to poor cell reception. Today I am forced to disable WIFI and use my low cell signal because WIFI drops every 10-30 minutes. I work from home. Many conf calls. I cannot depend on my WIFI. Thanks Netgear!

 

iPads - Same conditions. Playing games. Facetime Chat...Guess what...disco....

 

AppleTV - I use Sling and DirectvNow, even played with Sony Vue. Hard to blame WIFI for Sling buffering problems, but for 2-3 months I get ALL AppleTVs showing "No Network Connections" pop up in the upper right corner, at least 3-5 times per day. Then it magically works again a few seconds later. As of now, with the new update...I tried to watch my favorite morning news show....I couldn't...AppleTV kept dropping every 5-10 minutes...never had that problem until now.

 

Macbooks - Sometimes, website just won't load for 1-2 minutes, then it just work. I reboot my MacBook, It cant connect to WIFI...I disable, re-enable a few times, then it work after 2-3 minutes.

 

Ip Cameras - I gave up. Moved them back to my ASUS 3200. They were useless with Orbi. They work great with my ASUS.

 

PS4 and xBox are on Ethernet...No problems...

 

And please DO NTO ask me if I have other wireless APs running, and is my placement good Please.

 

1. I spent days and hours using WIFI analyzer to INSURE satellites had a solid signal to the router. Also test signal roaming between sat and router to insure I did not have overlap problem.

2. Tried beamforming and MU-MIMO on and off.

3. And yes...I scan my entire home to insure I DO NOT have any other WIFI devices enabled. Always disable the radios on other WIFI AP devices.

4. Orbi reboots. Weekly. Soft and hard.

5. Even hacked the command line to separate the 2.4G and 5G SSIDs. That actually did work well. But the moment Netgear pushes a new firmware update or you make any changes to your radio channel, etc...It will role your custom command back to factory. I have better things to do that treat Orbi like a Cisco switch...Was not the Orbi sales pitch...SIMPLE?

 

Bottom line....When Orbi works...It works well. But this stability problem multiple times per day is pathetic!

 

Tonight, after family goes to sleep. I am going to switch back to my SINLGE ASUS 3200 and see how well it goes this week. Why did I go with Orbi, they promised;

 

1. Great wifi coverage in hour home so you would not have slow/dead spots.

2. Next-Gen MU-MIMO and beamforming

3. Guest Network

4.Fast, Fast, Fast

5. SIMPLICITY!!!!

 

What did I get...

 

1. Very unstable WIFI converage

2. Must disable MU-MIMO and beamforming because its unstable

3. Guest network is still CRAP. If you use IPV6 it does not isolate. It appends its own DNS suffix which can break networks.

4. Fast most times, when it works. But for some reason its not fast for IP Cameras.

5. SIMPLE...HAHAHAAH.....Does anyone on this forum believe spending countless hours on this forum looking for solutions to make Orbi WORK call that SIMPLE? Does chasing down problems with your devices and your family complaining call that SIMPLE? An App that cant provide details of connected devices and any other useful abilties...SIMPLE??? Not being able to quickly see what devices are connect to which Orbi unit so you can do some troubleshooting...SIMPLE???? Needing telnet into the Orbi and hack its command line to make it do the things you NEED it to do...SIMPLE?????

 

I wish I could return it but I can't, and I am still holding onto hope that Netgear can get this product working..But that hope is running low. I am ready dump it on EBay, take my financial loss, and run to something else. If I must do that...Well, you lost me for life....And my family and friends look to me for their buying guide for technology.

 

Netgear, making me upset can cost you at least $10,000. At $400 per Orbi kit....multiply by the people who only buy what I tell them to buy...If I say no to Orbi....All the Netgear marketing in the world will not outweigh my recommendation...

Message 46 of 266
Ts937km
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

Just an FYI 

 

And yet another day of no disconnects. 

 

i do have a relatively small house for an orbi system.  3400 sq ft on 2 levels with a detached garage. About 20 ft behind the house and coverage is solid there as well.   Just double checked everything.   Not seeing any signs of disconnect.  iPad was left at home.  Left it playing a bunch of stuff off of plex.   Was still playing when I got home. 

 

I wish i knew knew what was different.  Could it be different hardware levels?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 47 of 266
fbraz50
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I ran into an issue with this latest firmware. I am getting consistent packet loss every 15-25 minutes. Sometimes it's small blips and other times it's long enough to kick me out of Overwatch games. I jumped through hoops trying to figure out the problem but have confirmed that it's this firmware update. Keep in mind I use my Orbi's in AP mode.

 

The biggest pain in the ass was that there was no warning on my Orbi about updates. It doesn't tell you that an update was done. Also the Netgear website doesn't mention release dates of the firmware versions for the Orbi.

 

What I did to determine issue:

 

  1. I ran pingplotter to determine if my packet loss was coming from within my network or ISP related. I lost packets to gateway IP as well as Internet so it was on my local network.
  2. I swapped out my firewall/router. I was using the Edgerouter Lite from Ubiquiti. I put in my old Asus AC68U in Router mode (Disabled WiFi Radios). Packet loss continued.
  3. I thought it was the wireless card on my computer for a bit so I bought another one at my local store. Specifically the Archer T9UH. The packet loss continued. So I returned that.
  4. I bought the TP-Link RE450 "Range Extender" because maybe my wireless issues were Windows 10 related and used it as a bridge only for my Desktop. Ethernet attached from Windows 10 Desktop to RE450. All extender features were disabled and I connected the RE450 at 5Ghz to Orbi, disabled 2.4ghz completely. Packet loss continued.
  5. I then turned off all my Orbi's and enabled the Asus AC68U wireless and all my problems went away. My coverage wasn't as good but at least my WiFi was stable. No issues for several hours.
  6. Put my Orbi's back up and disabled WiFi on AC68U and packet loss came back within 20 minutes.

I came to these forums to see if anyone else was having issues like mine. That's when I noticed a new firmware announcement and the approximate release date coincided with my problem. So I thought, I'm a big boy let me downgrade to the previous version and see if it makes things better for me. I tried and the Orbi would just upgrade itself again as soon as it got Internet access. NO WAY TO DISABLE AUTO UPDATE. Come on Netgear let me at least try to see if it works...

 

How I actually solved my problem:

 

  1. I set IP reservations for both the Orbi Router and Satellite in my Asus AC68U. Orbi IP never changes no matter how many times I reboot them
  2. I went into the Asus Router (again with WiFi disabled) and enabled "Network Services Filter". Blacklisted the Orbi and Stallite from reaching out to any Internet IP on port 80 and 443 TCP. I figured that's how they retreived the firmware updates.
  3. Downgrade the Orbi Satellite to version 1.8.0.6
  4. Downgrade the Orbi Router to version 1.8.0.6
  5. Check that they cannot update themselves via the Firmware Update checker on Orbi Web management portal. Auto updates fail as expected.
  6. Run through my testing again by playing Overwatch and running Pingplotter in the background and guess what? zero issues.
  7. Also because I don't block ICMP the Orbi's still think they are online so they don't complain about anything now.

For me this firmware borked my Orbi units. Blocking the auto updates at my router/firewall and rolling back the firmware fixed all of my issues.

 

A less technically savvy person would have returned these or would've just gotten frustrated with them.

Message 48 of 266
gfrey
Apprentice

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

I tried "Enable Implicit Beamforming" on this firmware.  For about 3hrs everything was working great!!!  I was ecstatic!  Then my Nest cameras started dropping connections left and right...  I had to turn off Beamforming to fix this issue yet again.  I haven't noticed any improvements over v1.8 except Beamforming lasted longer.

Message 49 of 266
jxrxme
Star

Re: Update V1.9.1.12 Netgear officially announcing 'Improvement in wireless connection Stability'

What angers me most is that whenever a user reports Wifi disconnect issues, the moderator advises to turn off implicit beamforming, mu mimo and turn down the 2.4GHz band transmit power. These suggestions are presented as solution instead of clearly communicating that these suggestions are only a way to lower the risk of disconnects and that the root cause is a known band steering bug they are working on...

 

This behavior lets me doubt they are working on a fix...

Model: Orbi High-Performance AC3000 Tri-Band WiFi System (RBK50)
Message 50 of 266
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