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HTBruceM
Guide

What happened to my posting

I posted then edited the posting with a different title and it disappeared?

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Sat-WiFi-downloads-slow-to-kilobits-s-with-wired-backhaul/td-p...

I spent a lot of time creating this post, I hope it isn't gone.

Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 1 of 18

Accepted Solutions
ekhalil
Master

Re: What happened to my posting


@HTBruceM wrote:

.......

I REALLY need some stability in the network because I'm planning to drop my Dish Network and switch to YouTube TV streaming service in the next month, so even TV viewing will then be dependent on internet access. Technically I don't even really need a mesh system because I've got the CAT6 wiring I need to just use APs. Whatever; this is where I am right now.


I have a very stable and robust wifi network currently with 2.3.5.30. All I needed to do related to wired backhaul is mentioned in this posthttps://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Wired-Backhaul-in-recent-firmware-releases/m-p/1783871#M67538

This should not e difficult to do to fix your issues and improve your system.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK50 AC3000, Router Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBK852 AX6000, Router Mode, Wireless Backhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

View solution in original post

Message 9 of 18

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ekhalil
Master

Re: What happened to my posting

Yes, I saw your post and then couldn’t find it when I wanted to post a reply. 

There is an issue with wired backhaul in the latest Orbi software related to wired backhaul. 
Please follow the steps in this post as a workaround: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Wired-Backhaul-in-recent-firmware-releases/m-p/1783871#M67538

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK50 AC3000, Router Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBK852 AX6000, Router Mode, Wireless Backhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

Message 2 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

I don't have the energy to invest further time in debugging wired backhaul right now. If WiFi backhaul is working then I'll stick with it for now. Maybe when the next FW comes along I'll try switching back to wired.

 

Sigh.  Sigh again.

Message 3 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

In case my original posting never returns, here is the summary.

 

RBK53 system, satellites in wired backhaul configuration, direct connection to RBR50 (no switches between). 

Mostly default settings in the router.

WAN is FIOS ethernet connection with 100/100 service; direct ethernet connection from RBR50 WAN to the FIOS ONT.

 

After running fine for a few weeks (?) my devices connecting to either satellite via WiFi would show a SEVERE drop in download throughput, down to the kilobit range. And yet the upload speed was still full performance.

Devices connecting to the RBR50 router via WiFi remained at full 100/100 performance, as did my wired ethernet devices.

Only devices connecting to the satellites via WiFi would experience the severe slowdown on downloads.

 

I rebooted into the non-wired backhaul, things are working correctly again.

Message 4 of 18
CrimpOn
Sensei

Re: What happened to my posting


@HTBruceM wrote:

I spent a lot of time creating this post, I hope it isn't gone.


My guess is that it is indeed "gone".  I, also, was typing a response only to have the forum pop up a message that the post I was replying to was "Missing" (or words to that effect).

 

If both satellites are connected with ethernet, there is no reason to enable Daisy Chain.  The point of Daisy Chain is to allow a satellite to connect to the router through another satellite.  If I remember correctly, enabling Daisy Chain also causes the Orbi satellites to create their own backhaul channel.  Ordinarily, I would say "who cares?  the Orbi comes out of the box with Daisy Chain enabled even when the purchase is an RBK50 with one router and only one satellite."  My opinion is that Netgear thinks customers may purchase another satellite and be puzzled when it doesn't connect and not realize they may have to enable Daisy Chain.

I love my Orbi.
Message 5 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

You're probably right.

 

I wish they would figure out a way to DISABLE the backhaul radio channel (or repurpose it for another client interface) when wired backhaul is present. That would surely eliminate the broadcast storms, loops that they're trying to eliminate. The RBS50 appears to have only one MAC address - whether the backhaul is WiFi or wired - the same MAC address shows up in the Attached Devices. There must be a single MAC controller and some sort of hybrid dual PHY... which might be the reason that wired backhaul is so touchy. Maybe they've got a chicken/egg situation with the backhaul WiFi vs. wired. Probably initially comes up in WiFi mode after reset/powerup, then some sort of "magic sauce" is done to enable the wired backhaul later. Having the same MAC for both might be the source of all the backhaul weirdness. The hardware being what it is (can't change it), they're trying to make things work in FW.

 

Couple reasons for wanting to use ethernet backhaul.

1) the perceived stability and consistent bandwidth of wired ethernet vs. WiFi

2) I also feel some guilt for consuming 5GHZ channels in my neighborhood that I don't really need since I have the wiring available to setup a wired ethernet backhaul. It looks as if the backhaul radio is still enabled but I assume it isn't sending packets and therefore colliding with neighbors.

 

BTW attaching a screenshot of speedtest from Android phone showing the speed slowdown.

Message 6 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What happened to my posting

What is the Mfr and model# of the ethernet switch if one is in the configuration when your trying ethernet backhaul?

Diasy Chain needs to be disabled when the RBS is connected via LAN to the RBR. 

 

What is the size of your home? Sq Ft?
What is the distance between the router and satellite(s)? 30 feet is recommended in between them to begin with depending upon building materials when wirelessly or wire connected.

 

When you getting broadcast storms on the system when wire connected with the RBS, usually means the RBS is in IP address conflict with a different devices IP address. I saw this a couple of times when I first got my Orbi. I managed to keep this at bay with by first connecting the RBS via wireless then wired and then setting a IP address reservation on the RBR before connecting all other LAN devices to the system. I haven't seen this issue since. 

@HTBruceM 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.17.12
RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW) Circle Enabled
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 7 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

Mfr/Model: No switch exists between the RBR50 and RBS50s. All wired devices connect to a TP-Link 24p unmanaged switch, and the switch is connected directly to a LAN port of the RBR50. Both RBS50s were connected directly to RBR50 LAN ports.

Daisychain: Yes I had it enabled (checkbox ticked).

Size of home: 2250. RBS50-1 and RBS50-2 are both about 35ft with intervening walls. CAT6 path is obviously longer.

Storms: I have IP reservations for the RBS50, set to .2 and .3. I don't believe there are any IP conflicts; everything is DHCP; and I have about 6 total reservations defined.

 

Bear in mind, this system was working fine for many days (maybe 1 weeks?) after the FW upgrade. But at some point, downstream bandwidth dropped dramatically (upload speeds not affected), and ONLY on devices connected via WiFi to either RBS. The condition remained this way constantly. When I forced a WiFi connection to the RBR, it's bandwidth was NOT affected, nor were any of my wired devices, in either upstream or downstream.

 

BTW I did the FW upgrade while in the wired backhaul configuration, and did not do any special manual power cycling/resetting. I understand that you advocate the brute force wipe everything clean method but I did not do that.

 

At the moment I've got the wired backhaul disconnected and I've rebooted a couple times. Switched off daisychain also. Apparently I don't need it, since my backhaul status still shows "GOOD" on WiFi. No issues seen at this point with WiFi backhaul.

 

I REALLY need some stability in the network because I'm planning to drop my Dish Network and switch to YouTube TV streaming service in the next month, so even TV viewing will then be dependent on internet access. Technically I don't even really need a mesh system because I've got the CAT6 wiring I need to just use APs. Whatever; this is where I am right now.

Message 8 of 18
ekhalil
Master

Re: What happened to my posting


@HTBruceM wrote:

.......

I REALLY need some stability in the network because I'm planning to drop my Dish Network and switch to YouTube TV streaming service in the next month, so even TV viewing will then be dependent on internet access. Technically I don't even really need a mesh system because I've got the CAT6 wiring I need to just use APs. Whatever; this is where I am right now.


I have a very stable and robust wifi network currently with 2.3.5.30. All I needed to do related to wired backhaul is mentioned in this posthttps://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Wired-Backhaul-in-recent-firmware-releases/m-p/1783871#M67538

This should not e difficult to do to fix your issues and improve your system.

My Setup Internet Fiber ONT 250↓/250↑ISP Telenor | Wifi Router Orbi RBK50 AC3000, Router Mode, Wired Backhaul / Orbi RBK852 AX6000, Router Mode, Wireless Backhaul | Switches Netgear GS208Time Zone CET (Sweden)

View solution in original post

Message 9 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What happened to my posting

If you have not factory reset and setup from scratch, this would be the next step. If you have tried everything else. 

I would also set a smaller default router DHCP IP address pool, try using 192.168.1.100 to .200. This what I use. 

 

I have this DISH Hopper system with  Joeys and it's all connected to the router thru switches. RBS is actually behind 4 switches. Don't ask, lol. Daisy chain is disabled here. 

 

Can you test the system with out the TP-Link switch being online to see if anything changes? 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.17.12
RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW) Circle Enabled
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 10 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

Ekhalil & FURRYe38 - I may give those steps for wired backhaul a try when time permits. But it's doubtful I'll be able to try without the TP-Link switch since so much of my network depends on it. Plus I have no idea how long it takes for the degradation to occur and cannot live without full network until that time.

 

Honestly I think this router just knows how to get under my skin, and I don't want to turn this into a career. I'm retired from the tech industry and not really excited about beta testing Smiley Happy

Message 11 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What happened to my posting

Possible you may have a bad system. Might ask NG for a RMA. 

 

Ethernet back haul does work. 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.17.12
RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW) Circle Enabled
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 12 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

I'm way beyond the warranty. I'll give it some time in the current configuration for a while.
Message 13 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

I had a window of time this morning in which I could take down the network. I performed the RBS50 factory reset/<remove from devices>/sync procedure while the wired backhaul is connected. Daisychain was UNCHECKED (disabed) during this process and remains so. It came up as expected and appears to be running normally. No changes to IP ranges though.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

I'll repost back here if it goes south, and I'll try to remember to also checkin here if things remain stable.

Model: RBK53|Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi System
Message 14 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

Still up and running pretty reliably so far.

Message 15 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What happened to my posting

So what do you think that made the system better? 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.17.12
RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW) Circle Enabled
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 16 of 18
HTBruceM
Guide

Re: What happened to my posting

I can only assume it was fixed by the workaround suggested by ekhalil.

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Wired-Backhaul-in-recent-firmware-releases/m-p/1783871#M67538

That said it's still too early to declare victory; it was working fine for days before it went south, so I prob need more uptime to say for sure.

 

Message 17 of 18
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What happened to my posting

Ok, let us know how it turns out in a few days or so. 

 

My Setup (Cable 1Gbps/50Mbps)>CM1200 v2.02.03(LAG Disabled)>RBK853 v3.2.17.12
RBK50 v2.7.2.104(WW) Circle Enabled
Additional NG HW: C7800/CM1100/CAX80/CM2000, Orbi CBK40, R7800, R7960P, EX7500/EX7700, XR450 and WNHDE111
Message 18 of 18
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