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What you can expect with your Orbi system

Roamabout
Luminary

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

We have around 5600 sq feet (30x60 house, three floors and a 20x20 porch on the rear). I have no issues with the Orbi but I'm interested in steps that I could take to reproduce any problem in an othwise happy Orbi system. I would rather break it now while I am in my return window.

 

Message 26 of 52
naerok
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

@FURRYe38 I'm happy to see that yours is working well.  However, for you to say "The HW works as its stands" and to say "It's when it's set up by users and the environments that will start to see various issues" undermines the people that have gone through troubleshooting and faced numerous headaches from these disconnect issues.

 

And especially when netgear has acknowledged issues with their system as well: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-MR-2-1-issues/m-p/1506307

 

I'm almost positive that you aren't experiencing issues due to having only one satellite along with your router.  I had a setup in a warehouse type building with very thin walls, maybe 9,000 square feet with the router in the middle and 3 satellites in each corner - tried both wireless and ethernet backhaul. As the original post of this thread states, if you have multiple satellites with devices roaming between them, this issue can be a real pain in the ass.

 

It's obvious you are active here in the community with your Master title so I appreciate you trying to help people here.  But when you say things like "Having 36 device maybe hitting what the orbi system can handle as far as how many devices can be connected. Most home class routers usually only support 15-20 devices. Maybe 30 on higher end wifi." it makes me question if you are just posting replies to sound knowledgable or if you are just mistaken.  Without going into the technical details of number of devices, Orbi officially supports up to 250 connections (https://kb.netgear.com/31097/How-many-devices-can-my-Orbi-system-support) - as do most other AP's in the market these days.

 

 

"You might start with disabling Beamforming and MiMO first. See if the system still experiences problems"

 

This has been posted earlier in this thread and people who experience the disconnect issues will experience the issue with Beamforming / MiMO on or off.

 

Again, I appreciate people like you that are trying to help the community but it really rubs me the wrong way when this is most definitely an issue with the Orbi under certain network conditions and you blame the user setting it up - especially after I've spent the last few weeks pulling my hair out debugging this issue with no solution (except rebooting satellites multiple times a day) until I replaced the Orbi system completely.  

Message 27 of 52
naerok
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

@FURRYe38 why did you post and delete a reply to me?  I was just typing another reply to say that your claim of 'one device can have multiple connections if they have multiple browser windows open to count towards the 250 connection' is total ignorance and almost laughable - especially if you are in the testing field as you say, I hope you aren't one of the people testing the Orbi for Netgear.  Please refrain from spreading misinformation on these forums.

Message 28 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

So someone is removing my posts I'm not. 

 

So I'll digress from this and continue to post other wise. Information is up to users to use or not. If you feel that i'm not giving good info, then thats fine too. It's clear that you don't. I can accept that. I'l still posting. I'll agree to disagree and keep it professional. Moderators can always contact me directly if there is a problem. 


Good Luck. 

Message 29 of 52
naerok
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Yeah, I agree with you that information is up to the user to use.  However you are giving out bad, incorrect, and repetitive information that has been covered in this thread, along with the LARGEST thread in these forums that discuss the exact issue here: https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-satellite-dropping-connection/m-p/1355419#M12533

 

Message 30 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

And I have been helping others successfully:

https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/AC3000-RBK50-iPad-Pro-WiFi-connection-issues/m-p/1507235

 

So information is good. 

 I see you have moved on to a differnt Mfr anyways. No patience either. 

 

Have a good one. 

Message 31 of 52
naerok
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Except even in that post you linked, the solution for the user had nothing to do with your 'help' (disabling/enabling beamforming/mimo).  They just downgraded their firmware.  I'm sure you've been helpful I don't doubt that, but you are adding nothing to the discussion to this specific issue. 

 

Do you understand the user's problem with DHCP lease?  It's the same issue posted in by @t_k in the first post of this thread:

 

"The fact that it's a layer 2 backhaul issue is easy to confirm. When you're having any connectivity problems with a device, just change the device radio's MAC address, wait a few seconds for a new DHCP address and "viola", the connectivity problems will be fixed."

 

If that iPad user was able to renew their DHCP, their connection would be back.  It has NOTHING to do with beamforming/mimo like you suggested.  It is further confirmed by the user solving their issue by downgrading their firmware which is what the recommendation is for this exact issue by netgear herehttps://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-MR-2-1-issues/m-p/1508666#M23873

 

The fact that you thought one device with multiple browser windows open can count as more than 1 device for the "250 concurrent devices" supported by Orbi makes me think that you arent super knowledgable with how wireless networks work - which is fine. 

 

Like I said, I'm glad you are trying to help but in this case you are just spreading misinformation and undermining the people that are experincing this issue that is confirmed by netgear.

 

Also I see you edited your post to add a sly "I see you have moved on to a differnt Mfr anyways. No patience either."

 

 

My patience was the month of debugging an issue with no update from Netgear until just recently when they acknowledged issue with their firmware https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/OrbiOS-MR-2-1-issues/td-p/1506307

 

 

It's really your comments like this that blame the user instead of seeing the facts laid out in front of you of tons of users experiencing the same issue and by netgear acknowledging the issue themselves, that's super frustrating for people that have struggled with the Orbi.

Message 32 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Thats fine. 

 

We see you've already moved on from NG.

 

Have a nice day. 

Message 33 of 52
twyrick
Initiate

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Just to add to this discussion?  I've been running the Orbi RBK43 setup (router and 2 satellites) for a while now. The primary router sits in the family room, near the middle of the house on the first floor. One satellite is upstairs in a bedroom and the other satellite is outside in a detached garage.  (House is about 2,200 sq. feet in size.)

 

When I first set this up, I thought (like many new owners) it was working flawlessly. Even running the latest firmware though, I've starting running into some glitches. Primarily, I've noticed my iPhone 7 Plus will occasionally stop responding on the wifi until I toggle wifi off and back on again to force a reconnect. I'd say this happens once per night, on average. Interestingly, I also have an iPad Pro 9.7" that seems to remain connected reliably. (To be fair though, I don't use it nearly as much as the phone.)

 

Additionally, I just started setting up some home automation products, including several Belkin Wemo switches. (These all use 2.4Ghz wifi only.) I noticed I was having issues with one of them randomly dropping off the network and then coming back again if I just waited an hour or two and checked for them again. There was no rhyme or reason to when or which Wemo would disappear.

 

I just ran into a problem about an hour ago where all the wireless devices in the house quit communicating on the Internet. I could ping a random web site address and it would immediately resolve DNS properly to an IP address, but the pings would just time out with no reply. The wired Ethernet devices continued to work normally though! I rebooted the Orbi router and everything started working again.

 

I did try a suggestion I saw posted to turn 2.4Ghz wifi signal strength down from 100%.  I tried 75%. It actually *may* be helping the Wemo switches stay connected reliably but it's kind of early to say for sure.

 

Bottom line? I agree with the people who say this product needs more work. I hope it's something Netgear can solve with firmware and not a hardware limitation of some sort. I'm past my return window on this setup and it works well enough overall, I'm still inclined to keep it for now and see if Netgear addresses these issues.

 

Model: RBK43| Orbi AC2200 WiFi System
Message 34 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Just curious, did you try disabling Beamforming and or MIMO on the Orbi router? 

Also have you tried just using one Satellite instead of two? I'm currently using just one Satellite at the far end of my 5000sq ft house. 

Just trying to help with some short term solutions until NG comes out with another FW update. Soon we all hope. 


@twyrickwrote:

Just to add to this discussion?  I've been running the Orbi RBK43 setup (router and 2 satellites) for a while now. The primary router sits in the family room, near the middle of the house on the first floor. One satellite is upstairs in a bedroom and the other satellite is outside in a detached garage.  (House is about 2,200 sq. feet in size.)

 

When I first set this up, I thought (like many new owners) it was working flawlessly. Even running the latest firmware though, I've starting running into some glitches. Primarily, I've noticed my iPhone 7 Plus will occasionally stop responding on the wifi until I toggle wifi off and back on again to force a reconnect. I'd say this happens once per night, on average. Interestingly, I also have an iPad Pro 9.7" that seems to remain connected reliably. (To be fair though, I don't use it nearly as much as the phone.)

 

Additionally, I just started setting up some home automation products, including several Belkin Wemo switches. (These all use 2.4Ghz wifi only.) I noticed I was having issues with one of them randomly dropping off the network and then coming back again if I just waited an hour or two and checked for them again. There was no rhyme or reason to when or which Wemo would disappear.

 

I just ran into a problem about an hour ago where all the wireless devices in the house quit communicating on the Internet. I could ping a random web site address and it would immediately resolve DNS properly to an IP address, but the pings would just time out with no reply. The wired Ethernet devices continued to work normally though! I rebooted the Orbi router and everything started working again.

 

I did try a suggestion I saw posted to turn 2.4Ghz wifi signal strength down from 100%.  I tried 75%. It actually *may* be helping the Wemo switches stay connected reliably but it's kind of early to say for sure.

 

Bottom line? I agree with the people who say this product needs more work. I hope it's something Netgear can solve with firmware and not a hardware limitation of some sort. I'm past my return window on this setup and it works well enough overall, I'm still inclined to keep it for now and see if Netgear addresses these issues.

 


 

 

Message 35 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Just curious, did you try disabling Beamforming and or MIMO on the Orbi router? 

Also have you tried just using one Satellite instead of two? I'm currently using just one Satellite at the far end of my 5000sq ft house. 

 

Was the system running well before any FW updates or was the latest FW installed and seem to degrade some? 

 

Just trying to help with some short term solutions until NG comes out with another FW update. Soon we all hope for those needing it. 

 

Message 36 of 52
rphsia
Star

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

I'm not sure who some of the questions were directed at, but just to be clear in case it is helpful for anyone:

 

- My original system was with ONE satellite and worked great (or so it seemed) for the first few months starting around July 2017.  

- Towards the end of the year (don't know exactly when) I started experiencing the internet lockups but didn't think much about it at first; I would just do the standard restart wifi and/or reboot satellite to fix

- The freezes started becoming more and more frequent, and I was getting dropped out of games both on iPad and PC, and then eventually my computer wifi needed to be reset every single time I woke it from sleep

- I decided then (should have done research argh) to ADD a second/new satellite.  I swapped the "old" one to another location and put the new one close to my room and it seemed better for a few weeks

- Around January I found these forums and tried all the suggestions (updating firmware, disabling MIMO and beamforming, etc), but the problems persisted

- Finally this month, I bit the bullet and replaced the Orbi with a Linksys Velop, and (fingers crossed) have not experienced any issues in the first two weeks.  At bare minimum I know the problem with my computer not auto-connecting to wifi was due to the Orbi satellite because that never happens any more.

Message 37 of 52
naerok
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Yep @rphsia, these are the exact issues that many people are experiencing.  

 

And its obvious that it's an actual issue but some members here and netgear support will give you the standard "Try disabling mimo/beamforming, try power cycling the satellite, try moving the satellite closer to the router" etc. and that's whats super frustrating.  

 

Some people will even say that we must be doing something wrong.  Glad your Velop works great.  I've personally gone with the Eero and have had your same experience.  No more constant connectivity issues, and no need to reboot the access points multiple times per day.

 

 

Message 38 of 52
t_k
Luminary
Luminary

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

@FURRYe38 Come on man, stop trolling this thread. Go troll some other thread.

 

You have to know what you're doing.

 

Message 39 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Placement between the Orbi router and Satellite(s) is also key. Satellites should be place in good range of the Orbi router and not at far distances. Need to maintain good signal between them. 

 

 

Message 40 of 52
khad
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

@t_k,

 

The experience that you so eloquently described in your first post in this thread is exactly the experience I had. Thanks for taking the time to write it out so clearly. It's exactly why I tried to find a way to essentially "disable" band steering. It doesn't work. Using separate SSIDs allows me to decide which band each device connects to, and my Orbi went from a pile of garbage to the most reliable connection I've had in years.

 

I'm glad my tutorial continues to help folks, but it boggles my mind that Netgear hasn't made a single attempt to try to resolve all of the problems you outline.

 

Cheers!

Message 41 of 52
t_k
Luminary
Luminary

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

@Roamabout As promised, a guide for how to reproduce the issue! It took a bit of time to put it together and I had other projects that required my attention.

 

Now that I've written it up, I sure hope people are able to use it to get refunds and that Netgear realizes it can't hide behind consumer confusion anymore.

 

 

Message 42 of 52
Dustin278
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system


@t_kwrote:

I'm writing this mainly because a post like this would have saved me a lot of time and effort. If you're thinking about buying an Orbi system, or recently purchased one, here's a few things you can expect:

 

  1. The devices look great so you can set them up anywhere.
  2. The wifi speed is impressive - 200-300Mbs actual throughout most of the coverage area.
  3. The band steering (the feature that tries to keep 5Ghz capable clients on the 5Ghz network), doesn't really work. 5Ghz capable devices keep ending up on the 2.4Ghz radio even though a useable 5Ghz signal is available.
  4. You'll keep lossing connectivity, partial or complete, for a few seconds or a few minutes. This will happen a few times a day if you use it all day.

 

After working for over a year trying to chase down and fix problems, here's the situaton with those last two problems. 

 

First, the band steering implemented by netgear just doesn't work very well. There are no magic switches or settings to change, it's just not reliable. There isn't way to make it reliable, but you can work around the issue. There is an undocumented way to separate out the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz SSIDs that a helpful user detailed. If you use this, you just avoid the bandsteering problems.

 

Second are the disconnects. They will seem random, they are hard to reproduce, and restarting any satellite or the router will resolve them when they show up.  I spent months trying to track this one down specificially and never got farther than confirming it's a layer 2 issue with the Orbi backhaul. The fact that it's a layer 2 backhaul issue is easy to confirm. When you're having any connectivity problems with a device, just change the device radio's MAC address, wait a few seconds for a new DHCP address and "viola", the connectivity problems will be fixed.

 

If you dive deeper into the sauce, poking around the Orbi's customized OpenWRT system using their telnet access, you'll find that the WDS system is incredibly unreliable. All it takes is a few laps around your house switching APs to cause a MAC address to get "stuck". Roaming isn't a requirement for the backhaul to start messing up, but it's easier to cause it to happen that way.

 

There is no fix for this second issue. It's something you have to just live with. If you don't use your system for work, and rarely roam between APs with your devices, you probably won't notice it too much. If you do - sorry, this is going to drive you crazy.

 

If you call netgear, you'll be told to restart the system, reload the firmware, play with channels, and a host of other things. None of them will help. You're just wasting time.

 

Note, these problems have existed for at least the past 8 revisions of their firmware and have shown no improvement. There is no reason to think that netgear will fix this, ever. They have the easy "reboot and it works again" fix available. So, this is one of those things you'll have to live with.


This is so spot on!

Message 43 of 52
ossiangrr
Initiate

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Hi. I'm currently looking at purchasing the Orbi and I came across this thread.

I was mainly looking at the RBK33 3-pack, with the main router and 2 small satellites. My house is quite long and thin and the router is on one end. Most usage would be in the center of the house, but it would be nice to have a boost in the laundry room/garage, so I was investigating mesh solutions.

 

I'm not sure if the latest firmware revision - 2.1.4.16  - is newer or older than the last post here, but if it is newer, I'm wondering: Does it address the issues that OP was describing?

 

Thanks.

Message 44 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

v.16 is the most current version of FW. Theres nothing newer. Yet.

 

This post is a few months old and theres been FW updates since then. You can check out there release notes for each FW update to see if anything is addressed.

 

There maybe differences between your 33 series and the OP 50 series so there maybe problems not seen with the model you have. If any. Something you'll have to try and see what happens.


@ossiangrr wrote:

Hi. I'm currently looking at purchasing the Orbi and I came across this thread.

I was mainly looking at the RBK33 3-pack, with the main router and 2 small satellites. My house is quite long and thin and the router is on one end. Most usage would be in the center of the house, but it would be nice to have a boost in the laundry room/garage, so I was investigating mesh solutions.

 

I'm not sure if the latest firmware revision - 2.1.4.16  - is newer or older than the last post here, but if it is newer, I'm wondering: Does it address the issues that OP was describing?

 

Thanks.


 

Message 45 of 52
ossiangrr
Initiate

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Thanks for your response, FURRYe38, but I am looking for any first-hand experience from the posters in this thread who were previously experiencing this low-level issue, to see if the firmware updates have made a difference for them. Especially the very knowledgeable OP who looks like he has gone above and beyond with his research and testing on the issue.

 

Message 46 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Hopefully someone will respond. Again, there maybe differences between 33 series and 50 series models

Good Luck.


@ossiangrr wrote:

Thanks for your response, FURRYe38, but I am looking for any first-hand experience from the posters in this thread who were previously experiencing this low-level issue, to see if the firmware updates have made a difference for them. Especially the very knowledgeable OP who looks like he has gone above and beyond with his research and testing on the issue.

 


 

Message 47 of 52
naerok
Apprentice

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Sorry, but I've moved onto a different product after experiencing these issues for several weeks without a concrete solution.

Message 48 of 52
CEaton12
Tutor

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

Yes, this is still an issue, I am not even going to explain exactly what's happening with mine...it's literally exactly what's happening in the first post of this thread. I've tried everything, I'm on the latest firmware, satellites are about 30 ft from the base, get excellent signal, I get internet drops on the satellite a couple times a day requiring a reboot. 

 

I'm using an Arris 6190 32 x 8 modem on comcast business.

 

There is a definite issue in these products, they are ignoring, or at least, not giving this issue the attention that it deserves. 

 

Furry, please don't reply to me, you asked on the other thread to list off basically everything about my set up that I put in my reply, this is what I do for a living, do not tell me to turn off beam forming. Netgear needs to acknowlege, and fix, this issue. 

 

 

The interesting thing about this issue that everyone, including myself is reporting, is that it takes a couple weeks, or months to start happening, typically beyond the return window.

 

 

I have the Orbi AC2200 RBR20 set up with one base and two plug in mini Orbi's.

 

Again, Furry, thank you for trying to help people, but please, save your reply for someone else, I can figure out how to turn mimo and beam forming on and off myself. Sorry for being rude, but the only thing more frustrating than this problem, is to be told we must have something set up incorrectly, I assure you, nothing wrong with my setup.

Message 49 of 52
FURRYe38
Guru

Re: What you can expect with your Orbi system

If your not getting the Orbi system to work, then please contact NG support. You may have a bad unit and may need to be RMA.

Never said to turn OFF beamforming. I've always recommended using Beamforming. It's worked for me and others.

 https://community.netgear.com/t5/Orbi/Orbi-firmware-update-v2-1-4-16-availability/m-p/1641952/highli...

 

FYI about your ISP modem:

http://www.badmodems.com/

 

Good Luck.

 

@Christian_R

@Blanca_O


@CEaton12 wrote:

Yes, this is still an issue, I am not even going to explain exactly what's happening with mine...it's literally exactly what's happening in the first post of this thread. I've tried everything, I'm on the latest firmware, satellites are about 30 ft from the base, get excellent signal, I get internet drops on the satellite a couple times a day requiring a reboot. 

 

I'm using an Arris 6190 32 x 8 modem on comcast business.

 

There is a definite issue in these products, they are ignoring, or at least, not giving this issue the attention that it deserves. 

 

Furry, please don't reply to me, you asked on the other thread to list off basically everything about my set up that I put in my reply, this is what I do for a living, do not tell me to turn off beam forming. Netgear needs to acknowlege, and fix, this issue. 

 

 

The interesting thing about this issue that everyone, including myself is reporting, is that it takes a couple weeks, or months to start happening, typically beyond the return window.

 

 

I have the Orbi AC2200 RBR20 set up with one base and two plug in mini Orbi's.

 

Again, Furry, thank you for trying to help people, but please, save your reply for someone else, I can figure out how to turn mimo and beam forming on and off myself. Sorry for being rude, but the only thing more frustrating than this problem, is to be told we must have something set up incorrectly, I assure you, nothing wrong with my setup.


 

Message 50 of 52
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