Wifi dropping out - Do I need to update the software - How?

[Jeannet]

Dear All,

I bought an Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Add-on Satellite(RBS50) in July '17, so it must by now be an old model. It has a network extender and one satellite. The extender is connected via wifi to a Virgin Media router. 

The wifi randomly drops out and re-establishes itself after a while. When I restart the router and synch the extender and satellite the wifi comes back, but it's tiresome to have to keep doing this several times a week or more.

There are also wifi black spots in my house.

I have requested a new router from Virgin, which has just been installed, but it doesn't make any difference. 

Would it help with the wifi dropping out if I updated software in the extender? I don't know if that is something I should do and if so how. 

Would it help with the black spots if I bought a second satellite? 

I would be grateful for any suggestions, but be gentle in your replies - expect zero techie knowledge! 

Many thanks and best, 

Jeannet 🙂 

[CrimpOn]

It would help if you could double check a couple of things:

• The exact model numbers of the devices, from the product lable on the bottom.
  One is likely to be "RBR50" (the "R" is for "Router") and
  The other is likely to be "RBS50" (the "S" is for "Satellite")
• How the RBR50 is connected to the Virgin Media router.
  Orbi routers can be connected in only one way: using an ethernet cable from the WAN (yellow) jack on the router to the Virgin Media unit.

If there are areas in the house with poor WiFi coverage, another satellite is one solution.

[FURRYe38]

If this is a RBS50, then the RBS50 is not compatible with your ISP modem/router. RBS50 only connect to Orbi AC wifi systems. 

There is a RBS50Y thats a outdoor satellite that if the extender mode FW is loaded can connect to non Orbi wifi systesm. 

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@Jeannet wrote:

Dear All,

I bought an Orbi AC3000 Tri-band WiFi Add-on Satellite(RBS50) in July '17, so it must by now be an old model. It has a network extender and one satellite. The extender is connected via wifi to a Virgin Media router. 

The wifi randomly drops out and re-establishes itself after a while. When I restart the router and synch the extender and satellite the wifi comes back, but it's tiresome to have to keep doing this several times a week or more.

There are also wifi black spots in my house.

I have requested a new router from Virgin, which has just been installed, but it doesn't make any difference. 

Would it help with the wifi dropping out if I updated software in the extender? I don't know if that is something I should do and if so how. 

Would it help with the black spots if I bought a second satellite? 

I would be grateful for any suggestions, but be gentle in your replies - expect zero techie knowledge! 

Many thanks and best, 

Jeannet 🙂 

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[Jeannet]

Sorry, Furrye38, I was unclear in my posting. 

I have a Virgin router, an ORBI extender RBR50, which is connected to the Virgin router with an ethernet cable, and to which the Orbi sattelite is connected via Wifi, synched using a WPS button. 

I have spoken with Virgin who are sending out an engineer to see what's going on. I'll let you all know the diagnosis and hopefully the solution! 

Thanks again for your support! 

Jeannet  🙂 

[Jeannet]

Hi CrimpOn, 

Thanks for your suggestions. I checked and I, indeed, have an RBR50 and an RBS50. You are absolutely right, that the RBR is connected to the Virgin router with an ethernet cable. I'd forgotten that because I've been synching it with an WPS button, which I thought was to do with Wifi. The RBS50 is connected to the RBR50 via Wifi, again synched using a WPS button. 

I have spoken with Virgin who are sending out an engineer to see what's going on, on Monday. I'll let you all know the diagnosis and hopefully the solution! 

Thanks again for your support! 

Jeannet  🙂 

[CrimpOn]

It is also helpful to know the exact model of Virgin Media device.  Many (most?) of them are combination modem/router/WiFi devices.

Are there any devices connected directly to the Virgin box or to the Orbi with ethernet?

If so, what happens to them when the Orbi WiFi signal disappears?

How do you administer this Orbi?

• Not at all.  Just plugged it in and are using the WiFi credentials printed on the product label (bottom)
• Using the Orbi 'app'
• Using the Orbi web interface (http://orbilogin.net)

One last question: the Orbi RBR50 is in "router" mode, correct?  (not Access Point (AP) mode)

This issue may be very difficult to resolve, because it is not supposed to happen.

As long as the Orbi router has power, it should broadcast WiFi and devices should be able to connect. If the Virgin Media signal disappears, the Orbi should continue to function.  (Without Internet, of course, but still blasting away the WiFi signal and letting devices connect.)

In addition to addressing the issue, at some point it may be useful to examine some other aspects of your setup.

(This is a lot like going to a mechanic because "my car stalls on the on-ramp".  At some point, other issues will come up: do the tires have enough tread? Has the oil been changed recently? What about the air filter? Do the brake lights work? etc. etc. Those are valid questions, but probably not pertinent to the problem.)

Most users would elect to turn off WiFi from the Virgin Media box so that the Orbi will have one fewer WiFi signal to compete with.  There are also specific situations which can be affected if the Orbi is in router mode and the Virgin box is also a router.

https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT 

Those are questions that do not appear to be relevant to the Orbi WiFi signal disappearing (and then reappearing).

[Jeannet]

Dear CrimpOn, 

Thanks again for your suggestions. 

The modem is a Virgin Hub 3.0 VMDG505/TG2492LG-VM.

The Virgin modem and Orbi router are connected to one another with an ethernet cable. 

The TV in the lounge is connected to the Virgin Modem with an ethernet cable - I can't tell you what happens with that TV when the signal drops away, as we never really use the TV (though I need to keep it useable, as I rent out rooms to lodgers, and they might want to use it. (They all have their own TVs in their rooms, too). I do not have a TV contract with Virgin, though - just for landline and broadband. 

I didn't realise I had to administer the Orbi and didn't know there is an Orbi interface - I thought you just plugged it in!

I have now paid for a service contract with Netgear, and someone remote-accessed my system this morning. They went into the Orbi web interface for me and established everything had been fully updated, and said the Firmware problem from the security upgrade earlier this year has been corrected (I have Router Firmware Version V2.7.3.22). 

The agent did something to the Router (I didn't understand the explanation - maybe that is what you suggested about setting it to modem? I wouldn't know how to check that. She specifically said the Virgin box was a modem, though, when I mistakenly called it a router.). She said that if I still have problems, I should ring back and they will do a factory restore on both the router and the satellite and get the whole system up to date again.

She suggested getting a second satellite RBS50 to get rid of the black spot in one of the lodgers' rooms. 

I was very impressed with the service they gave, and am hopeful things will get sorted. The Virgin engineer is due on Monday late afternoon, so by then I should know if the problem is resolved and can cancel them if it is. If not, they can eliminate any problem on the Virgin side. I have printed out your answer so I can show the Virgin guy, in case it helps them. 

Thanks again, everyone, who has answered my question. You've been very helpful. Great to know you're out there! 

Now I just need to find somewhere that sells a single RBS50, as Amazon says they're out of stock and googling I don't seem to be coming up with any! I hessitate to buy one second hand on Ebay, in case something dicey might be in there that could infect my system. 🙂 

Best, Jeannet  🙂 

[FURRYe38]

Your ISP Modem already has a built in router and wifi. This would be a double NAT (two router) condition which isn't recommended. https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT
https://kb.netgear.com/30187/How-to-fix-issues-with-Double-NAT
Couple of options,
1. Configure the modem for transparent bridge or modem only mode. Then use the Orbi router in router mode. You'll need to contact the ISP for help and information in regards to the modem being bridged correctly.
2. If you can't bridge the modem, disable ALL wifi radios on the modem, configure the modems DMZ/ExposedHost or IP Pass-Through for the IP address the Orbi router gets from the modem. Then you can use the Orbi router in Router mode.
3. Or disable all wifi radios on the modem and connect the Orbi router to the modem, configure AP mode on the Orbi router. https://kb.netgear.com/31218/How-do-I-configure-my-Orbi-router-to-act-as-an-access-point and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7LOcJ8GdDo&app=desktop

I would try option #2, if not then Option #3. 

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@Jeannet wrote:

Sorry, Furrye38, I was unclear in my posting. 

I have a Virgin router, an ORBI extender RBR50, which is connected to the Virgin router with an ethernet cable, and to which the Orbi sattelite is connected via Wifi, synched using a WPS button. 

I have spoken with Virgin who are sending out an engineer to see what's going on. I'll let you all know the diagnosis and hopefully the solution! 

Thanks again for your support! 

Jeannet  🙂 

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[Jeannet]

Hi Furry38,

Thanks very much for your suggestions. I will print them out and show them to the Virgin engineer coming on Monday. I hessitate to do anything myself (not being very techie!) in case I mess things up. 

To update you on  my situation - This is part of what I wrote in reply to CrimpOn, who also kindly offered support. 

"I have now paid for a service contract with Netgear, and someone remote-accessed my system this morning. They went into the Orbi web interface for me and established everything had been fully updated, and said the Firmware problem from the security upgrade earlier this year has been corrected (I have Router Firmware Version V2.7.3.22). 

The agent did something to the Router (I didn't understand the explanation - maybe that is what you suggested about setting it to modem? I wouldn't know how to check that. She specifically said the Virgin box was a modem, though, when I mistakenly called it a router.). She said that if I still have problems, I should ring back and they will do a factory restore on both the router and the satellite and get the whole system up to date again.

She suggested getting a second satellite RBS50 to get rid of the black spot in one of the lodgers' rooms. 

I was very impressed with the service they gave, and am hopeful things will get sorted. The Virgin engineer is due on Monday late afternoon, so by then I should know if the problem is resolved and can cancel them if it is. If not, they can eliminate any problem on the Virgin side. I have printed out your answer so I can show the Virgin guy, in case it helps them." 

So that tells you where I'm at with it all. Thanks very much for your support. CrimpOn also mentioned the 'double NAT' issue! 

I've been trying to find for sale an additional Orbi satellite RBS50, but they seem to be unavailable. Amazon says they're out of stock, the Netgear website won't allow me to put one in my shopping cart, and googling I don't seem to be coming up with any! I am too worried about buying second hand on Ebay, in case something dicey might have been installed (or crept in) that could infect my system. 🙂 

Many thanks again for your support. It's great to know you guys are out there!

With all my best, Jeannet  🙂 

[CrimpOn]

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@Jeannet wrote:

I am too worried about buying second hand on Ebay, in case something dicey might have been installed (or crept in) that could infect my system. 🙂 

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In addition to the RBS50, any of the original Orbi satellites will work with the RBR50 router, including:

• RBS50
• RBS40
• RBS20
• RBW30
• RBS40V

Satellites from the other Orbi product lines are not compatible ('Pro', 'AX', the "10" series Orbi).

When purchasing from eBay, a Factory Reset on the satellite will clear out all configurations.  There will be nothing "dicey" on the product. The chief worries with buying used from eBay are (a) will it actually be in working condition, and (b) if not, how to get your money back.  When my RBR50 went out of warranty, I bought a used RBR50 from eBay as a spare and use it frequently for experiments.  Wish I had bought a spare RBS50 at the same time.

[Jeannet]

Brilliant, thanks!  I'll go ahead and buy it.

A factory reset is by pushing in the little hole at the back with a pin. Is that right? 

Thanks again, Jeannet  

[Jeannet]

I found instructions online about how to do a factory reset. Thanks again for all your support, everyone! 

Jeannet 🙂 

[Jeannet]

Dear All, 

I am just posting an update in case that helps. 

Virgin came two days ago. They found their hub / router was 'out of spec' and reset it. I didn't understand what they said about that, but it was something to do with the distance from my house to their box in the street. They also reset the hub to 'modem only' so it's router function would not fight the Orbi router. 

You will remember there were two issues to solve - the wifi dropping away / becoming unstable and a wifi black spot in one of my lodger's rooms. 

With respect to the first problem - the Virgin guys explained that the Orbi is not really meant to 'go outside' (as it needs to do for me as I live in a studio in the garden, about 25/30m from the house). Is that true? They explained that due to the distance the satellite was just on the cusp of being able to pick up the signal from the router. When it could, it could amplify it okay, but it only needed a slight fluctuation or increase in traffic for it to lose the signal. They suggested a second satellite might help, but they thought to get a reliable signal I probably needed an electrician to install an ethernet connection to run outside he house and round to the studio. 

With respect to the second problem - they thought a second satellite would help. 

The second satellite (bought reconditioned with 28 day return and 1 year warrantee from a business through Ebay - thanks for the caution, CrimpOn, but I chanced it and think I've lucked out - though at a cost - £176!) arrived yesterday and seems to have resolved the black spot. While the wifi is accessible the speed in my studio is great (as it was before - maybe marginally improved now - upload 37Mbps, download 549Mbps).but it's still dropping away - the last two nights I've not been able to watch iPlayer or Netflix in the evenings due to constant buffering and cutting out. Curious thing is that this is much worse than it's ever been (with the Orbi) - maybe overall the wifi traffic has increased? 

So it looks like getting an ethernet cable will be the next step. 

Thank you all for walking through this with me. 

Best, Jeannet  🙂